2008-04-28, 06:16 | Link #361 | |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Rivalz himself made a comment abotu what he planned to do with the money and Lelouch sort of shrugged the question off.
__________________
|
|
2008-04-28, 06:18 | Link #362 | |
Affably Evil
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hammerspace or Australia, I forget which
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2008-04-28, 06:20 | Link #363 | |
おやすみ、ルルーシュ。
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Quote:
And it's a waste of time to go into details on each and every geassing. All we need to know is who he geassed and how he did it. |
|
2008-04-28, 07:53 | Link #366 | ||
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2008-04-28, 08:13 | Link #367 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
If he's ever in a similar situation.... that's a scenario right there Sol, there are no guarantees to that nor any inclination to the degree of selfish behavior that would enable him to say... pursue a relationship... just work within the context we're given alright? >_> Dann summed this point up nicely in my book, look at the above post of this page to read it <_< If anything she'll be far, FAR worse
__________________
|
|
2008-04-28, 10:46 | Link #368 | |
Blood flows freely..
Join Date: Apr 2008
|
Quote:
|
|
2008-04-28, 13:18 | Link #369 | |||
...huh?
Join Date: Jul 2003
|
Quote:
In the end, however, I have to disagree. I'm of the mind that he's primarily doing it to carve a safe place that Nunnally, and himself, if fate allows, can live in that lasts. True, prior to his inciting the rebellion, he was living in relative ease with his sister but let's not forget the 'relative' aspect of it as peace and everything that came with it were taken from him and his sister not once, but twice before, and all from forces within his own country. Nunnally seems forgiving and would take peace whichever way it's given, but to Lelouch, that sort of peace is no different from scraps off a table. It won't last. It can't. For who's to say that it won't happen again? As far as he was concerned, Britannia was the problem. As long as the empire is around, there could be no real peace for Nunnally and it is that, or something akin to that, he wants to give her. Let's not get into the argument of whether or not real peace exists because 1) it's too subjective and will bound to stray the discussion away from the topic at hand, and 2) I don't think that's what Lelouch's worrying about. To him, the only thing that's standing between him and the peace he wants to give Nunnally is the Holy Empire of Britannia because they kept taking it away every damn time he gets a little of it. And that, I think, above all else, is what drives his ambitions. At the end of episode 24-25, C.C. had mentioned that despite all the things Lelouch had done, be it good or bad, big or small, all of it was just to make a small, simple--childlike, even--wish of his come true. Wanting to free Japan is his big ambition to achieve that small wish, and not the wish itself as, if that were case, would you be able to define it as a small, simple wish? o.O;; And everything else (i.e.: getting to the bottom of his mother's murder) are merely things he wants to achieve along the way. If my memory serves me right, he's also never explicitly said he wanted to eradicate war, either. It's never been on his list of Things To Do. With his level of intelligence, he should be able to easily see that that simply isn't possible. Comparatively, er, 'obliterating' (as the dub so fondly uses xD) an empire would yield a much higher probability. ^_~ On the subject of his 'perfect' altruism...I think it only really extends to as far as Nunnally. Everything he's done and is still doing, at the bottomline, it's all in her name. And even in that respect, there's still a hint of selfishness in it. What he's doing is noble and all, and even if her answer may not have changed his decision in the end, he still had never deigned to ask Nunnally what she wanted, and yet it is in her name that he wages a war and fights. That's also an act of selfishness, I think. (EDIT: he didn't ask, but she did explicitly wish for a kinder world. Forgot about that. I fully retract my comment on this subject. She may not condone his means to achieving that for her but it still doesn't change the fact that she /did/ make that wish.) While he's not essentially a selfish person by any means, he's not selfless enough either to not be given to exercise small bouts of selfishness every now and then. Isn't that what the creators wanted? A flawed character? We're all selfish humans, one way or another. And it is on that platform, I think, that the creators based his characterization on. Quote:
Quote:
At the end of the day, though, it comes back a full circle, wouldn't you think? If he doesn't at least try to achieve happiness himself, how could he expect those whom he love, and who love him back, to? It applies to even those who live in the real world, does it not? As for episode 4...it's noble of him to assume the evil mantle for what he considers as the greater good and all...and his seemingly downward spiralling morals make for an interesting development. However, I can't help but to see more and more of his old man in him. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing yet, though. It /is/ still only episode 4 after all. Still lots of room for twists, turns and other fascinating, fascinating development. =D Last edited by vspirit; 2008-05-02 at 11:59. Reason: Mispelled Nunnally -.-;; and got a fact wrong |
|||
2008-04-28, 13:28 | Link #370 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
|
[QUOTE=Marioshinobi;1563956]
Quote:
It was in reference to whether or not the Emperor geassed Nunally which I doubt he would do (is it necessary? Probably not). I was also pointing out about the Geass being reserved for situations where you absolutely need it. 1. Rewiring Lelouch's brain. 2. Geassing soldiers/people to do your bidding, etc. You mind telling me where I said Lelouch shouldn't use his Geass? In fact where did I say ANYTHING about Lelouch doing this or that? I just said that Charles should be 10x greater (in mind and strength) compared to Lelouch in comparison. This guy didn't get to the throne for nothing and he even MASTERED his geass (He can turn it on or off and if I recall correctly, mastering Geass isn't an easy thing to do). Example - Blackmailing Rollo into helping him out. Did he need to use his geass there? No he didn't. In fact I prefer Lelouch rely less on his Geass because it's that "ace in the hole" if he ever needs it badly (Like geassing Suzaku into "living" and running away from that bombardment when he couldn't change his mind otherwise). Is that a clear enough translation for you? |
|
2008-04-28, 13:30 | Link #371 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
|
One rather offtopic question, whats the limits for Lelouch's geass? Can't he just give a command like, "if you hear me, Zero/Lelouch say 'Lelouch wi Brittania commands you followed by a command, no matter what, you will follow it. If I say something not starting with "lelouch wi brittania commands you" you do not need to do it. Never try to kill/harm Zero/lelouch" to everyone he mets under four eyes and then pretty much have a eternal, vocal geass control over everyone?
|
2008-04-28, 13:41 | Link #372 |
Senior Member
Author
|
The Death Note comparisons are going to be the end of me I swear.....
At any rate I believe the idea of Lelouch's Geass that is like re-programming someone's mind to do "such-and-such" command. Some of them are active immediately or ongoing. Some require a key phrase like you said. The only "limits" from what I have read is that it has to be a reasonable command. Things that are impossible for someone like say "Doge this bullet at point blank range" won't work because its physically impossible unless you are Suzaku or Jesus. |
2008-04-28, 14:11 | Link #373 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Geass doesn't work if you ask someone to do something they aren't capable of doing don't understand what you mean or don't have the knowledge to do what you ask (though you could probably simplify it so they'd get it). Like how Cornelia and Clovis don't respond about Marianne because they don't know who did it.
Other than that presumably he could order anybody to do anything he asked (or order them to do something somebody else asks). We've yet to see him ask anybody to do something they couldn't do so we don't really know how that would work. And I still want to know how the heck he Geassed himself. Reflecting it into his own eyes makes sense but since the Geassed person looks to be in a trance til given a command how did he manage to command himself when he shouldn't be able to speak. |
2008-04-28, 15:05 | Link #374 |
Senior Member
Author
|
I think the idea for that is that "until he finishes his order" I imagine he can control that to a certain extent. Otherwise everyone he gessed would be acting on the first thing he asks. Like for example "Don't kill yourself", unless he had the power to control when he finishes ordering someone it would just be "Don't Kill".
|
2008-04-28, 16:44 | Link #375 |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
|
I'm new to Code Geass (read: I watched all the episodes to date for the first time over the last week), but I have to say that Lelouch really didn't live up to the hype I had heard about.
Part of it, of course, is deliberate. Lelouch/Zero can be entirely hypocritical in criticisms of Britania when trying to convince Suzaku to join him, when he does the exact same things himself to his own allies. And of course, some events are just accidents. But really, forall his vaunted genius, Lelouch continues to be the definition of a man who would be twice as smart as he really is if he was half as smart as he thinks he is. This isn't to say that Lelouch is dumb, or that his tactics aren't brilliant, but he constantly overestimates his own abilities and underestimates his opponents, and his plans are continuously thrown into peril by mere chance or a single unexpected variable (in Season 1, that variable was Suzaku, though it was Arthur the cat in one of the earliest episodes). Lelouch constantly over-plans to the point that the slightest flaw can ruin everything, from his numerous failures to capture his half-sister to his multiple failures to turn Suzaku. Even the fate of Euphie and the massacre that followed is solely the result of his own gloating ego which constantly wavers the moment his friends are involved. When it comes to being a magnificent bastard, Lelouch falls well short of men like Ventari from Discworld. He dissappoints me as a character, really. He goes through all the trouble of casting off old ties, and yet at the same time hesitates at crucial moments when his own weaknesses are displayed. Personally, I think the best poetic justice would be for Naanely to either lose her memories of her brother, or for her to learn what he's done in her name. Either would be a suitable reward for Lelouch. |
2008-04-28, 16:49 | Link #376 |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
|
Wow, that's accurate enough to make me wonder why I even watch considering how he can be at times. His ego is probably one of his biggest obstacles and unfortunately I can never see that going away at any point.
__________________
|
2008-04-28, 16:58 | Link #377 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
As for her forgetting him, he might not mind that in the end as long as he's ensured her safety. Chances are if he succeeds he'll either be 1.Dead 2. Knee deep in Geass stuff with C.C. for the rest of his life. 3. In a leading postion of his new world (whether he wants to or not). Either way he won't be living a quiet peaceful life with Nunally in the end. What would be poetic justice is if he realizes he's had Nunally pegged all wrong from day one and she's not nearly as innocent as she seems. |
|
2008-04-28, 17:13 | Link #378 |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
|
Well, I wouldn't say it's out of the question for him to be living with her in the end though it of course depends on what is going to happen in the end. I'm not too sure any of those options may occur. Chances are he will be done with C.C. completely upon fufilling her wish and that will be the last he sees of her. Dead is a possibility, but there are things making me think that won't happen. Him becoming leader seems somewhat possible though I'd personally find it odd.
Poetic justice would be Nunnally being more sinister than Lelouch thought her to be though. That would definitely screw him up.
__________________
|
2008-04-28, 17:45 | Link #379 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
It's actually because he's shown humane moments at times that I can actually like him as well as I do. I mean, I'm rather glad he isn't a complete asshole or I couldn't really feel like I could support him. The fact that he can hesitate or retain some semblance of emotion despite constantly tainting himself is what makes him interesting to me, because I wonder if he could do what others couldn't and find a way to balance the two sides. Not to say he's perfect at it, but because he isn't at times it gives me some hope that things might just end well for him, that he doesn't become the monster he tried to fight like so many others, or lose his conviction in carrying on the fight half-way through.
__________________
|
2008-04-28, 17:45 | Link #380 | |||
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Edit: An back on the topic of Lelouch, I'm still trying to figure out how breaking Area 11 away from Britannia is supposed to lead to the destruction and collapse of the Empire. The loss of magical-liquid whatever is annoying, but Brittania had Nightmares before they invaded Japan. Meanwhile, however, Leluch will have saved the Empire the enormous costs of pacifying, fortifying, and colonizing a chain of islands so close to China. In exchange... Leluch will have gained an island chain that can't even feed itself unless one Superpower or another keeps open the sea lanes, where Britania has maintained naval dominance since the start of the series. Last edited by Dean_the_Young; 2008-04-28 at 18:00. |
|||
|
|