2023-11-11, 20:58 | Link #361 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
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Rewatching the scenes of the episode, and there's tidbits of information dispersed here and there.
Aura asks Frieren to display a tenth of her mana. When she first meets the party, Heiter comments that she's one fifth of his mana. So if she kept the ratio, then at that time Frieren had double Heiter's mana capacity. So in effect Heiter was a seriously decked-out beast himself Imo. Definitely worthy of the Hero's party. We already have a good grasp of Eisen's skill via Stark. Makes me wonder about Himmel's abilities. Finally, I think that even if Aura played smart and threw her army at Frieren, the elf would still have won. She said she'd have been in trouble, but there's no indication that she would have lost. And as some have mentioned before, Frieren is a long-term planner, so I doubt that she would have faced Aura all the way to betting her soul unless she was sure she'd win no matter the events leading up to the weighting. Also in the super-rapid flashbacks right after Frieren meets the party, there's a screenshot about their first encounter against Aura.
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2023-11-11, 22:17 | Link #363 | |
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Meanwhile, Stark managed to kill a dragon on his own and walked off however many blows that demon gave him and was trained by the Warrior who helped kill the Demon King. As far as measuring sticks go, they're probably not the ones to measure the average Mage.
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2023-11-11, 23:01 | Link #364 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
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If Aura had let her army wear out Frieren's mana then used the scales she could have won. The only reason she didn't do that is because she figured she didn't need to since she believed Frieren's mana was weaker than hers. If that was how the battle had headed then Frieren would likely have just run away.
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2023-11-11, 23:13 | Link #365 |
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Age: 38
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Reminder that magic has advanced a ton since the Demon King's defeat. That was the point of showing off the creator of Zoltraak. The Hero Party had to seal him when they faced him before, but now Frieren handed him his ass with basically no effort beyond what was necessary to teach Fern some things.
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2023-11-12, 00:16 | Link #366 | ||
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You don't need to be desperate like Lugner to wait for your opponent to drop their defenses. That's just the smart thing to do. Quote:
The flashback showed Himmel landing a slash on Aura, and we know from Aura herself that she ran away. If she knew Frieren was stronger than she would've ran away again. Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2023-11-12 at 00:28. |
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2023-11-12, 03:32 | Link #368 | |
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2023-11-12, 04:21 | Link #369 | |
I disagree with you all.
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2023-11-12, 12:31 | Link #370 | |
Snobby Gentleman
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 44
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Sousou no Freiren. Aura the Guillotine
Taking into account that the Demons are highly arrogant I doubt that Aura saw as real threats warriors whom displayed strong wills to resist the Scales of Obedience when she faced them in the past, however, she conceded that were annoying pests that she must had dealt immediately.
And, she made no distinction at beheading them like the rest of her victims, but after losing to Himmel's party over eighty-years ago, perhaps, she added many of those slain strong-willed warriors to her army to have, at least, some buffed-up assets for their strength in combat, but that's my personal ranting. Anyways, unfortunately, I did not get to see Frieren releasing her true strength against Aura, but way back to episode seven she's not messing around with her disposition to take down Aura; Fieren's dead serious. Quote:
Fern recalled that Frieren acknowledged her for being to cast magic even faster than Frieren could possibly do, and the girl played that to her advantage coupled that she concealed her mana back when she previously sniped Lügner by surprise. As Fern noted, Demons are too arrogant as a species that while they do are aware of long-term or distant threats like, for example, Frieren, nevertheless, they fail to acknowledge the short-term pesky nuisances like, for example, humans that hold back on their mana in order to catch them off guard. Again we see this example with Stark's fight against Linnie, however, in his case he was holding back his strength due to instinct and that was the fear of dying in battle. Nonetheless, Stark had as well his visit to the lane of memories recalling the beating he got from sparring against his Master Eisen. But, Eisen ultimately commended him for still having the strength to stand-up again despite all the damage inflicted on the lad and both the pain and fear Stark felt. Once Stark temporarily held back his fear of dying right after taking a fatal blow from Linnie he caught her off-guard by pressing forward his reckless conviction at landing the killing blow on the demon girl. |
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2023-11-12, 12:47 | Link #371 | |
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Aura, Lugner, and Linie are all demons who have fought or at least seen Frieren and the Hero Party up close in the past and lived to tell the tale. Considering that Frieren wouldn't let a demon go just like that, it means that those three know how to survive and run away if need be. If they can run away from Frieren, then Lugner can definitely run away from Fern. The reason why he didn't was because Fern kept her mana low enough that he thought he was stronger. If she ever powered up then he would have noticed. Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2023-11-12 at 13:52. |
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2023-11-12, 14:11 | Link #372 | |
Winter is coming
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2023-11-12, 18:52 | Link #374 | ||||
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True, but we shouldn't assume that Fern's mana is weaker than Lugner's just because she's human either. Flamme didn't look older than 30 when she met Frieren but her huge mana was comparable to Aura's, someone who had trained for 500 years. I think that clearly shows that natural talent makes a huge difference. And although we don't know that Fern is as talented as Flamme, we don't know that she isn't either. So we should be open-minded about this, I think. Quote:
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Yeah, mana isn't everything in a fight. Did I ever say otherwise? I don't think so.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2023-11-12 at 19:08. |
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2023-11-12, 19:59 | Link #375 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 36
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You just need to look at how she handled the puppets, to see that there was no need for a melee at all.
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2023-11-12, 20:26 | Link #376 | |||
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I was just saying that Fern doesn't need to have more mana than Lugner to win, and that you shouldn't be trying to use the size of their auras as indicative of an objective standard when it's only relative to the person next to them. Flamme's mana was shown as a comparison to Frieren's and the demons she faced, nothing more. Claiming that it's more than Aura's just because it looks bigger to you is a bit of a stretch, I think. Quote:
The reason why Lugner miscalculated Fern's mana is because she was taught how to control it and keep expenditure to a minimum, just like how she defended against Qual. Efficiency is a part of control. The fight isn't as flashy in the manga, and you can see how Fern put what she used against Qual into practice here by minimizing her barrier magic's area of effect. Her strikes are precise, nothing too exaggerated, and just enough to hit Lugner. I initially wasn't going to bring up too many manga comparisons since it looked like anime only watchers have the same interpretations anyway, but if you're thinking that Fern could overpower Lugner by force because of how flashy the animation was, then I really do not think that's the lesson to be learned here. Quote:
There's no such thing as a fair 1 on 1 fight amongst mages in this series, and thinking of what-ifs on how they'd measure up in a more direct show of power is not how Frieren and Fern were taught how to fight. The fact is that Fern was waiting for that opening as much as Lugner wanted to make one. The only difference is that's baked into her fighting style while Lugner was improvising. |
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2023-11-12, 21:55 | Link #377 | ||||
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I disagree with that. Other people already explained why she wasn't really waiting for an opening. She was just gonna keep dishing out attacks until she could overwhelm his defense. And Lugner knew that this was the logical outcome which is why he got desperate and started calling out to Linie.
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2023-11-13, 00:32 | Link #378 | |
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His goal is is to kill Fern. To do that, he decided to stall and focus on defense. That method didn't work because she could hit him anyway. He still thought he had a chance to kill her, so he ordered Linie to help to accomplish that. From Fern's perspective, I think we can agree her goal is to kill Lugner, yes? I don't think "piercing his defenses" is enough for that. Lugner regenerated from a lost abdomen and arm; he can do it again. He also ran away from Frieren in the past somehow, so he's clearly capable of backing out if he can see the writing on the wall. Suppose that Lugner didn't get distracted, then his injuries would eventually reach a point where even he can tell his life is in danger. Fern wants a decisive blow, and best way to kill him and make sure he doesn't run, is to get him to drop his guard. An opening is exactly what Fern wants. |
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2023-11-13, 01:03 | Link #379 | |
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Plus the dragon incident proved the point again. Some things aren't going to be so easily dispatched and are going to be bad matchups. There's always value in having a good mix of skillsets.
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2023-11-13, 01:19 | Link #380 | |
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