Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Kirarakim]

Ugh what a horrible plot twist. I honestly thought I was watching some bad soap opera.

And why is this uncontrollable vampire crap only affecting Haruto so far?

edit: Also I am not even going to begin to judge the characters, I am only going to judge the writer for coming up with this awful idea.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Ugh what a horrible plot twist. I honestly thought I was watching some bad soap opera.

And why is this uncontrollable vampire crap only affecting Haruto so far?

edit: Also I am not even going to begin to judge the characters, I am only going to judge the writer for coming up with this awful idea.

Go back and watch it again. You weren't paying attention. No, seriously, look at it from the very beginning, and check what the characters are saying.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Ugh what a horrible plot twist. I honestly thought I was watching some bad soap opera.

And why is this uncontrollable vampire crap only affecting Haruto so far?

edit: Also I am not even going to begin to judge the characters, I am only going to judge the writer for coming up with this awful idea.

This seems a bit of an extreme and well...judgmental reaction but okay. I prefer to see where things go before jumping all over the staff like so many people seem to have been in a hurry to do for much of this shows run. As for what's going on with Haruto, it's been pretty much all but outright stated by now.

[Dr. Casey]

That's somewhat vague, Vallen. A second viewing is likely to result in the same conclusions being reached as the first one. I think you should just explain where you're coming from; that would make your perspective clearer and make for a more interesting post as well.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Go back and watch it again. You weren't paying attention. No, seriously, look at it from the very beginning, and check what the characters are saying.

It's funny how you say I wasn't paying attention when I said next to nothing about the actual contents of the episode (besides saying it was a horrible plot twist).

Unless you mean my comment about it only affecting Haruto. I might have missed something about that. You can enlighten me (but that was the very least of my issues with this episode).

Sorry I don't like non-consensual sex being used as a plot twist. And this to me is what the writers did against both Saki and Haruto. This just seemed completely cheap and stupid to create more drama.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Sorry I don't like non-consensual sex being used as a plot twist. And this to me is what the writers did against both Saki and Haruto. This just seemed completely cheap and stupid to create more drama.

I agree it's there to add drama and tension between the cast, but why exactly is it cheap and stupid per say?

Also if people really didn't catch it Haruto's urges seem to be tied to the Valvrave OS's comments throughout the episode about hunger and previous comments about intercourse. What all that entails and why it leads to these berserker moments and what exactly the OS's angle is or what is even going on with the Valvraves hasn't really been covered fully yet but the point of the scene seems to be that we're getting to the part where we find out just what that contract they agreed to entails. It had to come up at some point, it's just the way it's coming out is probably a little unsettling for people. I suppose it's understandable, but I truly believe it serves a purpose beyond trying to get under the audiences skin.

[germanturkey]

wow, crazy episode. love that the internet exploded because of it. the plot may be much more complex that i initially thought it was, given the type of show.

[Triple_R]

I think that Vallen's referring to the discussion between L-Elf and that scientist guy at the very beginning of the episode. I don't recall the particulars of it off-hand, but they did make it clear that Haruto's Valvrave Unit was particularly special, and that this ties into why Hartuo is the only one who goes insane from the vampirism every now and then.

Originally Posted by Folenfant

I agree it's there to add drama and tension between the cast, but why exactly is it cheap and stupid per say?

In fairness to Kirarakim, rape is horribly overused to create drama in fiction, and anime is no exception (just look at how many Fall 2012 anime shows involved rape).

I myself am giving it a pass here for two reasons:

1. It was handled tastefully, I felt.

2. The whole context surrounding it is actually rather creative. A rape without an actual rapist (unless you count some AI program). That's pretty original to the best of my knowledge. So that kind of cancels out with the cliched nature of "rape drama!" for me.

[Tokkan]

I remember when in first episode how the EULA of the Valvrave made mention of a facility that basically now owns Haruto.

Turns out the word used for facility (機関 "kikan") can also mean engine, like the Valvrave's "Rave Engine".

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

In fairness to Kirarakim, rape is horribly overused to create drama in fiction, and anime is no exception (just look at how many Fall 2012 anime shows involved rape).

I myself am giving it a pass here for two reasons:

1. It was handled tastefully, I felt.

2. The whole context surrounding it is actually rather creative. A rape without an actual rapist (unless you count some AI program). That's pretty original to the best of my knowledge. So that kind of cancels out with the cliched nature of "rape drama!" for me.

I'll have to look back on that season as you're probably right given the type of content I remember seeing in that season, though why don't I remember a whole lot of outrage compared to this show. That's probably why it seems different and like it's a suddenly outrageous plot twist for a show.

My reason for giving it a pass, or rather should I say lending it my curiosity is sort of what I stated above. It's clear we're passing a threshold in the show where we start to find out the consequences of the contract the cast made. I'm kind of worried this isn't the end of the unfortunate stuff for our main characters.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Folenfant

I agree it's there to add drama and tension between the cast, but why exactly is it cheap and stupid per say?

It's cheap because the drama is completely forced. Nothing happens by the characters own actions & decisions but the actions are forced on them.

I also just detest rape as a plot device.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

It's cheap because the drama is completely forced. Nothing happens by the characters own actions & decisions but the actions are forced on them.

I thought that was kind of the point of the scene. I don't necessarily see how that takes away from it's impact. I think rather it definitely changes how one would perceive the OS and the nature of the Valvraves, though really after it killed a person simply for trying to pilot it I've figured it was an ominous and even manipulative presence. This just drives it even further home. Though we need to know why it's doing these things before we can really evaluate what this scene means for the cast and the overall plot. I just hope it's worth it and relevant and not brushed aside.

Also with regard to your values that's different though going by some of the shows I've seen you following on this forum I must say that's kind of surprising to learn. I personally don't believe there's such a thing as bad plot devices, just poorly or lamely used ones. It's too early for me to decide if this is one or not.

[cyoti]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

I remember when in first episode how the EULA of the Valvrave made mention of a facility that basically now owns Haruto.

Turns out the word used for facility (機関 "kikan") can also mean engine, like the Valvrave's "Rave Engine".

The shadow then in the ED is likely the avatar for a second Rave Engine probably the immobile Valrave in the basement.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Folenfant

I thought that was kind of the point of the scene. I don't necessarily see how that takes away from it's impact.

What impact? The makings of a badly written soap opera. I swear I've seen similar story lines done in Days of Our Lives (which now I just admitted I used to watch).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

It's cheap because the drama is completely forced. Nothing happens by the characters own actions & decisions but the actions are forced on them.

I also just detest rape as a plot device.

VVV said the "Faculty" has the right to force Haruto to do anything and he can't refuse.

You asume that it came from nowhere because you think it was not a deliberate act. Well, the evidence points to it being entirely deliberate. There is a reason VVV-tan in Haruto's body, assaulted the only female vampire in the colony.

The rape is NOT a plot device. It is the PLOT. VVV-tan granted eternal life, now she wants to get her dues in return. Nothing is truly free, and certainly not immortality.

What impact? The makings of a badly written soap opera. I swear I've seen similar story lines done in Days of Our Lives (which now I just admitted I used to watch).

Days of Hour Lives has a quantum parasite trying to reproduce through two infected human hosts?

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

What impact? The makings of a badly written soap opera. I swear I've seen similar story lines done in Days of Our Lives (which now I just admitted I used to watch).

Okay well this conversation doesn't seem to be going anywhere so I think it's best we cut this short. You've drawn your line, I've attempted to explain my position and related to yours but you don't want to cross it so we're kind of done here.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

VVV said the "Faculty" has the right to force Haruto to do anything and he can't refuse.

You asume that it came from nowhere because you think it was not a deliberate act. Well, the evidence points to it being entirely deliberate. There is a reason VVV-tan in Haruto's body, assaulted the only female vampire in the colony.

The rape is NOT a plot device. It is the PLOT. VVV-tan granted eternal life, now she wants to get her dues in return. Nothing is truly free, and certainly not immortality.

Yeah I basically see it like that. Also I think with this show there's kind of been two sects of the fandom watching it side by side. Those that see it as just a collection of separate and distinct plot devices and ridiculous situations and focus primarily on commenting about those aspects, and those that just take those things with the other things the show presents and see it as part of the overall plot structure and framework of the show. I've never really subscribed to the whole turn off your brain and enjoy the absurdity method of viewing the show many have suggested, instead my angle has been to keep track of everything that is going on and how it fits together at the same time I enjoy the over the top nature of it all. I'm pretty sure I've got a handle on everything that has been addressed for real so far, it's not particularly complex, just larger in scale than the show has chosen to address up to this point. It needs to save some things for the second season after all as I remember a staff comment about how the show was going to be multi-cour because it needed the time to fully address all the mysteries and plot threads of the show.

Although that said I really wish we didn't have this arbitrary break coming up just as things are starting to come to a head with the show. It's kind of a terrible way to keep things in suspense and could threaten to break up the narrative more than necessary. It's definitely one aspect of the shows production I'm definitely not a fan of.

[germanturkey]

Haruto's is the only one with the AI right?

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

VVV said the "Faculty" has the right to force Haruto to do anything and he can't refuse.

You asume that it came from nowhere because you think it was not a deliberate act. Well, the evidence points to it being entirely deliberate. There is a reason VVV-tan in Haruto's body, assaulted the only female vampire in the colony.

The rape is NOT a plot device. It is the PLOT. VVV-tan granted eternal life, now she wants to get her dues in return. Nothing is truly free, and certainly not immortality.

Oh I am sorry forgive me. So that makes it all better because the VVV wanted to spread through Saki and Haruto. Give me a break.

Days of Hour Lives has a quantum parasite trying to reproduce through two infected human hosts?

So you are trying to say this is so original because the rape was done by parasites controlling Haruto's mind LOL

No but trust me there are plenty of stories (including badly written fanfiction) where a character is not in control of their senses has non-consensual sex with another character. And yes the type of story was done on Days of Our Lives before (even if the exact details were not the same, doesn't make it the most original story, but it's not that I am even complaining about originality in this case).

I brought up the soap opera aspect of it because you have the boy (in love with another girl who is also in love with him) ending up being forced into non-consensual sex with another girl who has feelings for him.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

VVV said the "Faculty" has the right to force Haruto to do anything and he can't refuse.

You asume that it came from nowhere because you think it was not a deliberate act. Well, the evidence points to it being entirely deliberate. There is a reason VVV-tan in Haruto's body, assaulted the only female vampire in the colony.

The rape is NOT a plot device. It is the PLOT. VVV-tan granted eternal life, now she wants to get her dues in return. Nothing is truly free, and certainly not immortality.

What's so interesting is that everyone's EULA said the same thing, and since they all don't have VVV-tans I doubt that she is the "Facility". Yet, this means that none of the pilots have the right anymore to refuse the Facility's orders.

I actually thought this really hit base with the plot. Like the students of this school who have been kind of treating this war like a joke and being saved by blind luck, only Haruto has been taking this contract with Valvrave seriously. Everyone else has blown it of.

Saki's look of devastation as she realizes what exactly their contracts mean, really hit home in the development for her character. She held the "giving up of their humanity" as all fun and games, and is finding out that it is anything but. They are not "holy spirits" they are the damned.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

Haruto's is the only one with the AI right?

yes and he is the only one with the that limit break sword