2013-04-09, 14:35 | Link #3781 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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The only species I've left out of the peace discussion were ones Shepard never had any real contact with, consequently what they may end up doing is beyond the scope of Shepard's understanding (yet another reason to chose one of the endings the Catalyst provides). Quote:
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We fundamentally disagree on this ending, and that's fine. But, since we aren't doing anything but repeating ourselves now, I'm going to bow out. |
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2013-04-09, 14:56 | Link #3782 |
I desire Tomorrow!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: As far away from reality as possible
Age: 42
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Only thing Synthesis does is remove the Synthetics or Organics dilemma, nothing more, nothing less. If everything is both Synthetic and Organic, no one will start a war for this specific reason. Yes, SynthHumans might expand and destroy planets during the expansion, sure SynthKrogans might try to take over the galaxy yet again, sure SynthRachni might pose a problem eventually, or SynthGeth might want to eventually subdue the SynthQuarian. Maybe a SynthSalarian will create a new SynthOrganic race that wil rebel against them. But the dilemma of how organic life will be preserved over synthetic AI will not be there again, because all life is SynthOrganic-based. People seem to have a problem with comprehending that a SynthKrogan is a SynthOrganic lifeform AND a Krogan, the same way that a pre-Synthesis Krogan was both a lifeform AND a Krogan. Synthesis doesn't address anything else, not sure what people were expecting. But yeah, it's space magic, that much is true.
Whether such a dilemma WAS there in the first place doesn't really matter in the end, since the final outcome tries to address THAT dilemma and nothing else. The thing is that Synthesis does answer that specific dilemma better than the other options, which don't really guarantee the circle won't repeat again eventually. We can argue that it shouldn't have been there in the first place, but that's another discussion entirely.
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2013-04-09, 16:10 | Link #3783 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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So yeah another case of it was useless. |
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2013-04-09, 16:32 | Link #3784 |
blinded by blood
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Both of you two arguing people are forgetting the Leviathan DLC, which makes your alternate character interpretations of the Reapers invalid.
The Reapers were created by the Leviathan race as a reaction--the Leviathans used mind-control powers (which were hand-waved as quantum-entanglement communication, only organic instead of technological) to enslave other races. These races eventually advanced through technology and created a synthetic intelligence that rebelled against them. The Leviathans, annoyed that the robots killed off their slaves, created the Intelligence (the Catalyst, Deus Ex Exposition Kid, etc) to prevent this from happening again, but under certain programming constraints. The Reapers literally cannot believe that there will ever be lasting peace between synthetic and organic life because they were programmed not to. Solving the problem they were created to solve thus became impossible, because war and violence are never sustainable in the long term. The Intelligence was thus logic-bombed and went insane, convincing itself that every single organic species will always create synthetic intelligences once they reach a certain stage in technological development. Obviously even an idiot knows that's not true, can't be said to be true, because nobody--not even a collective mind of hyper-advanced cyborg spaceships with absurd processing power--can predict the future. The Reapers were operating on false assumptions of a very egotistical and megalomaniacal species that created them, whose rather ugly morality also limited their possible solutions--it's not a shock that they came to a very stupid conclusion. Then the Intelligence turned on their creators, fulfilling the false dichotomy that all synthetics will kill their creators, and birthed the first Reaper (Harbinger). So yeah. The Reapers, like the Exposition Kid said in the ending, are only doing what they were programmed to do while also being programmed explicitly to avoid the best possible solution (brokering a peace between the life types). They aren't right. They don't believe they're right. In fact, they're completely insane, and then we wrap right back around into Mecha-Cthulhu territory.
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2013-04-09, 17:49 | Link #3785 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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btw, I just looked it up, the Extended cut ruins the endings even more by lowering the total points needed from 4000 down to 3100. So, its even simplier now to get the multiple endings without doing much of anything. Good I hate the EC... Quote:
That being said, I don't fully agree with you. Personally, this is one of the reasons I find the idea of the Synthesis ending so interesting. It is not a core ending. Destroy and Control are the main endings ot the game. They even come with a helpful colour-coding so we recognize them within the previously understood morality spectrum. Synthesis, though, is a separate ending. Shepard has to accomplish certain tasks in order for this ending to even be revealed. Those, tasks, ignoring the silly online play and the EC lowering the total points, are all centered on the general betterment of the universe through diplomacy and hard work, especially brokering peace between the Quarians and the Geth, the creator and created. If you do not accomplish these tasks, then you are left with a program that tells you destruction is only possible. But, if you accomplish these tasks, then a third option is revealed, and option that does lead to peace, or at least eliminates one form of fear. That's not to say that I don't find the intelligence core logic flawed... Quote:
To put it another way, you can come to the correct findings/answer even if your basic logic is flawed. The specific patterns and motives the Catalyst thinks exist could, in fact, be false, and in fact be multiple minor patterns or singular incidents that just happen to continue producing a result that the fits the Catalysts flawed logic (in a realm the size of a galaxy, the likelihood of an event or sequence such as synthetic life repeating itself becomes much greater, especially when you allow for 50,000 years or more of progress). Consequently, synthetics are still a potential menace, even if some are actually good. Then again, maybe the Reapers are simply the Lupus of the universe, in which case they still need to be taken care of somehow, and sadly brute force is still impossible. Honestly, I do not place too much importance on the actual events, instead I look to see what the story is trying to tell us not only about Shepard or the fictional universe, but about myself and how I play the game. The ending is much more interesting than how it deals with the Reapers or synthetics in general. I do agree that the creators didn't spell out everything as much as they should or could have, this is definitely a flawed product (for whatever reason). Still, I find the ending quite beautiful, even if I do not know how much I actually like it or not. Last edited by james0246; 2013-04-09 at 18:06. |
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2013-05-29, 15:33 | Link #3788 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Crucible let's you control all reapers, but doesn't have a big red button to destroy all reapers?
Anyways, I think they should have went with the original Dark Energy story line. Instead of the Star Child Sovereign should be trying to get in your head. The two choices are let the reapers destroy advanced life and let the cycle continue or use the Crucible to deactivate all the reapers. If you choose to deactivate the reapers you'll realize that Dark Energy is seeping into the galaxy and that the use of the mass effect technology is accelerating it. This would be a great setup for future ME games where the new threat is the looming threat of the increase of Dark Energy in the galaxy. There are a lot of parallels with the issues surrounding fossil fuel usage, global warming, pollution, that we have in real life and would make great stories once you translate them into the ME universe. For example, every race has to reduce the their use of mass effect usage but some races are unhappy with the quotas they are given. Krogans for example feel they cannot rebuild their race with the little quota they have, which could lead to conflicts or even outright war. There would be a lot of illegal activity based around getting around those quotas, which could setup new powerful criminal organizations. There could be new cults formed based around the idea of embracing Dark Energy and thus going around and setting off Mass Relays to increase the rate that Dark Energy is being introduced. Last edited by Xion Valkyrie; 2013-05-29 at 16:28. |
2013-05-30, 01:04 | Link #3789 |
blinded by blood
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The Dark Energy plotline also depended on several different things, like Mass Effect 2's original prologue and early chapters where Shepard was rebuilt by Legion and the true geth rather than by Cerberus.
It also had a pretty big plothole in that the Reapers (according to Sovereign) created the mass relays and mass effect technology and directed technological development of new sentient species toward mass effect tech. If they were trying to STOP the use of mass effect tech to prevent dark energy from dooming the universe... why were they encouraging the use of mass effect tech? Pretty big plothole. Honestly I think they never should have tried to explain the Reapers. What little explanation should have left the player with the implication that the "harvests" were merely the Reapers' method of facilitating reproduction (ME2 all but screamed this with the Human-Reaper Larva and the Collector Base). That moves the conversation from "some robots made to solve an unsolvable problem so they were logic bombed" to "eldritch abominations who are required to harvest advanced species in order to continue to exist." It takes things from the AI is a Crapshoot trope to serious Cosmic Horror territory.
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effect, games, mass |
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