2015-10-14, 06:36 | Link #21 | ||
Yuri µ'serator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FL, USA
Age: 36
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This article made so excellent points against the typical arguments, so I decided was worth posting here.
Transgender Rights and Public Bathrooms Quote:
Fox Reports Another Fabricated Bathroom Incident To Attack California's Non-Discrimination Laws Quote:
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2015-10-17, 05:40 | Link #23 |
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Too bad people can't use common sense (which is sadly lacking in this day and age), instead they assume the worst and make things unnecessarily difficult for everyone. There should just be one unisex bathroom with multiple stalls with lockable doors, and a shared area for hand washing basins and hand driers.
At work, my scheduled lunch break is 1pm. I like to first stop by the bathroom (which is near the office exit) to take a leak before leaving the office to buy my lunch so that when I return from the deli, I can go straight to my desk to eat, rather than having to either take my food into the bathroom, or walk all the way to my desk to drop off my food then walk back to the bathroom and back to my desk. More often than not, this is also the same time the cleaner chooses to clean the ladies' bathroom, and because the cleaner is male, he is required to stick up a sign on the door barring access to the bathroom until he is done, and ladies are expected to use the disabled toilets instead. I don't normally use the disabled toilets because there is either another person in it already, or it has been left in a disgusting state. Personally, I would not have any problem doing my number ones and twos in a stall in the ladies' bathroom while the male cleaner is cleaning (or any other person for that matter). What's he going to see anyway while I'm in my stall? But I guess the office managers see this as inappropriate, hence the sign on the door while the cleaner is in there. If people are concerned about being "perved on", then gender segregation isn't going to fix that. I remember back in primary school, we used to go to the local public pool for swimming lessons. One time, a group of girls in our class had made disparaging comments about other women's naked bodies in the change rooms (the showers did not have curtains or doors), openly laughing and pointing at other (elderly) women who were showering. One of the women had complained, and us students were given a talking to about appropriate conduct in change rooms. |
2015-10-17, 08:51 | Link #24 | |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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2015-10-17, 15:42 | Link #26 |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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In plenty of places it might. Instead of two separate rooms you can probably make do with a single one that's slightly larger to have more stalls but since you reduce area taken up by the number of entries you can free up some space. Also the fact that everyone shares the same room could mean that a place with 2+2 stalls could be easily covered by just 2 or 3 stalls depending on the number of people that it services. It simplifies floor planing, at least imho.
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2015-12-31, 01:34 | Link #27 | |
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2016-01-05, 01:22 | Link #28 | |
Nope.
Fansubber
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 32
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Quote:
Alright, so here's the thing. Seeing that stuff isn't pleasant for anyone, regardless of your gender. Unless it's your fetish, as you said. Girls don't want to see dicks? Yeah, I'd bet the average guy doesn't want to either. Guys don't want to see blood? Neither do girls. But everyone already has to deal with these things, and they do it with extreme ease once they stop acting like children about everything. I'd also like to point out that, at least in the US, you will basically never see used tampons or pads unless you yourself are planning on disposing of one. I mean, unless making all bathrooms unisex requires, for whatever reason, that the little covered garbages in every single stall in female bathrooms (as well as existing unisex ones) are removed. Wouldn't be seeing any dicks if there were no urinals or if those actually had some privacy, either.
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2016-01-10, 08:37 | Link #29 | |
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Location: The Netherlands
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2016-01-10, 15:00 | Link #31 |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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If someone intends to break the law by sexually assault a woman in the bathroom, do you honestly think having a law that doesn't allow them into said bathroom is preventing them from doing it? It's not like there are cops standing outside of every bathroom checking genitals.
All I'm seeing as a retort is that we shouldn't change to accommodate the 0.3% because the 0.0003% will be bigger idiots than they otherwise would be and we need to protect them from themselves. Why accommodate the 0.0003%? |
2016-01-10, 22:55 | Link #32 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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There's only two ways I see this argument making sense either way. Either make all bathrooms gender neutral and get rid of urinals, or we keep it as is.
The whole idea of accommodating transgender folk into bathroom comes with the assumption that normal people wouldn't be bothered by them being present in the bathroom. Well... Are transgender people not included in this argument? If transgender people are bothered by being in the "wrong" bathroom, wouldn't the general population also be in consideration for being bothered by seeing these individuals in their bathroom? So if no one really cares anyways, let's do away with the current bathroom system in its entirety? This is pretty much the end result of this and if you're comfortable with that, fine. Otherwise, I do not really see an argument for their consideration. You're either inconveniencing them, or you're inconveniencing others. You're asking for most of the population to "deal" with it, rather than them "dealing" with it. I know it's not a nice way to look at things, and it's a very difficult issue, but I think that's that.
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2016-01-11, 09:33 | Link #33 |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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Everybody poops. I really don't understand why this is an issue. Oh wait, I'm a male. I'm almost never concerned about someone assaulting me in a bathroom unless I'm in a seedy part of town. Although to be honest, even in those places I'm more worried about how unclean the bathroom is.
"Girl uses boys bathroom" is culturally less offensive than "Boy uses girls bathroom". That's the problem.
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2016-01-12, 05:49 | Link #34 |
Nope.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 32
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As a female I'm never concerned about being sexually assaulted in a bathroom. Maybe you could argue I can only say that because bathrooms are currently segregated, but really, I can't see how having the bathrooms segregated by gender is much of a deterrent. You're probably way more likely to be sexually assaulted walking around alone in the dead of night, or by something that is extremely common and seen as normal: dating.
Bathroom stalls do have locks, even if they are shoddy. Not to mention public bathrooms should have a constant influx/cycling of people, and a pretty intense echo that would alarm anyone if someone started yelling from inside.
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2016-01-12, 08:46 | Link #35 | |
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Honestly, Reck, I strongly disagreed with your post overall. You honestly think it would be a good thing to completely remove urinals from all public washrooms? I find them highly convenient, and I'm pretty confident that most adult males do.
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2016-01-12, 12:20 | Link #36 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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What I was saying is that the argument goes that the general population should accommodate transgender individuals in bathrooms because they say no one really cares. I said if no one really cares why not just make every bathroom gender neutral? It's just taking the logic to its natural conclusion and seeing if people truly even want that.
I also raised the issue that it stands to reason if no one cares, why do transgender people care? Are they somehow more emotionally sensitive to this issue than the general population? Yes, they do care. Well people in the general population seem to care to! What does that leave us with? That's why I said it's a difficult issue.
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2016-01-12, 13:08 | Link #37 |
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Age: 38
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Transgenders want to use the rooms that are assigned to the gender they identify as. They merely want to be accepted for who they feel they are.
Opposition wants others to use the rooms that they want them to use. They merely want others to fit into their own worldview and refuse to accept anyone else's. This is an alternate way to look at the argument. |
2016-01-14, 23:16 | Link #38 |
Did nothing wrong
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It's kinda moot the way I see it.
I don't think recognizing transgender people equals to ignoring gender or sex or having unisex bathrooms whatever the hell you want to call it. The only thing that matters is whatever they're legally classified as. We're talking about laws, so it's about what appears on their ID or whatnot as opposed to people's opinions are. It's not necessary to change bathrooms at all. And as a generalization, many of us have pretty clear concepts of male or female regardless of gender identity or sexuality. To make it more clear, if some dude goes into a men's bathroom and looks like a dude to some degree, you're probably not going to have the urge to "examine" them to wonder what they were born as-- please, lol.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2016-01-14 at 23:31. |
2016-01-19, 13:16 | Link #39 | |
The Voice of Reason
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Age: 48
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Quote:
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human rights, lgbt, transgender |
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