Sword Art Online II - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Green²]

Good episode. Do you think that the mother had noticed the ring on Asuna?

[The Green One]

Considering how dismissive she is of anything related to the game I doubt it even registered in her head.

[Side-streetdog]

Unexpected cute mother

And I think this is first time they really has scene about the school after the end of 1st season right?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Green²

Good episode. Do you think that the mother had noticed the ring on Asuna?

Originally Posted by The Green One

Considering how dismissive she is of anything related to the game I doubt it even registered in her head.

The animation shows Asuna's left hand with the ring opening the window, and then a shot of her mother's eyes narrowing, which to me implies that she noticed. I don't think the show would have used a shot of Asuna's ring finger if they were just trying to suggest that Asuna's mom can feel the wind coming in from outside.

As far as the ring having additional implications in Asuna's mother's mind about Asuna's situation in the game... maybe it did have some impact later in combination with the rest of her realizations, but it's not something she was going to bring up directly.

[Jaden]

I gotta say, I really liked this story arc. I did not enjoy the overly romanticized MMORPG stories that much, and Log Horizon does that stuff better anyways. The real life drama with scifi elements though? Excellent.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Faerie

Well. So much for the mom is unreasonable and mean and a golddigger or whatever people wanted to claim about her.
That lady is not just awesome but perfectly easy to reason with. Only thing is, she's a bad communicator. So what? Runs in the family.

I'm inclined to agree. The situation between Asuna and her mom resolved itself even more pleasantly/productively than I had hoped it would. They never even had much of a verbal fight, really.

Here's my current take on the Kyouko/Asuna family dynamic.

I get the impression that Kyouko is a bit of a workaholic, and that can harden a person somewhat, which likely contributes to how very short and blunt Kyouko tends to be in conversation. It's through Kyouko's life of hard work and determination that Kyouko achieved the considerable personal success that she did. That meant she probably never had much time for recreational and leisurely pursuits, so naturally she's going to be somewhat skeptical of something like VR MMOs (ostensibly, highly immersive games).

Still, with just a little bit of prodding, Asuna managed to get Kyouko to enter the VR MMO world with her. And that's when Kyouko realized that VR MMOs can offer more than just basic gameplay. This was probably a big turning point for Kyouko in understanding where Asuna is coming from, and understanding why this is all so important to Asuna.

Kyouko might not be as willing/quick to change her mind on the question of Asuna X Kirito, but at least she was willing to change her mind considerably on the school question given how Asuna presented her position (i.e. in a fashion that made it clear how important this was to Asuna).

And now, when I put myself in Kyouko's shoes... Asuna does have a definite tendency to being very whimsical and acting on the spur of the moment with the heat of her emotions. Now, that's not without its good points, as this arc clearly shows, but I think it is something that needs to be balanced by regular reminders of practical long-term concerns, which is precisely what Kyouko brings up in her conversations with Asuna. On the whole, this dynamic is probably in Asuna's best interests, with her mother sort of acting like a GPS to keep the very adventurous and emotional Asuna from going too far off into the proverbial wilderness.


As for the Asuna/Yuuki side of the episode, that was also very well done. It hit a lot of very nice notes, and the dialogue between them was genuinely charming. Asuna's reaction to Yuuki's marriage joke was truly very funny to.

[ronelm2000]

The way it was handled, while I think that somehow it solves the issue of her mother reaching some kind of understanding with Asuna, who also had her own issues wrapped up pretty nicely. For once, you know, she actually knows what she's going for...

Now about that "grades" thing...

[Baldurkai]

I wonder how that little toy thing lasted a whole day without recharging.

Still impressive that kirito managed to build a prototype to that extent and have it running well. Episode wise, pretty good, I rather liked it, at the same time I did think some of the faces were a little off but oh well nice watch for sure.

a little lack luster in the action department tho... shame - wanted some badass Asuna.

[dotdotslash]

I figured that Asuna and her mom were likely to reach some understanding, it just feels that the start of the story builds her mom up so that it seems like she'll be much more involved in the later episodes than she was. Not bad, but felt a bit flat. Like maybe if she'd investigated what Asuna was up to lately and stumbled onto Yuuki's plight herself it might have felt more "earned" than the way it turned out. Still interesting to see the real and virtual worlds overlap in a different way in this arc than they have in the others.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

The animation shows Asuna's left hand with the ring opening the window, and then a shot of her mother's eyes narrowing, which to me implies that she noticed. I don't think the show would have used a shot of Asuna's ring finger if they were just trying to suggest that Asuna's mom can feel the wind coming in from outside.

As far as the ring having additional implications in Asuna's mother's mind about Asuna's situation in the game... maybe it did have some impact later in combination with the rest of her realizations, but it's not something she was going to bring up directly.

I think she did sort of allude to it at the very end of the episode as well, with her comment about "you're really prepared to support someone for your whole life, aren't you?" If you combine that with the shot of the ring and the fact Asuna's mom was implied to have noticed it, I think it's pretty clear what she's implying. Of course, she's not going to go right out and say it, but I think the main thing is that she needed to see how serious Asuna was; that it wasn't all just flights of fancy and avoiding reality.

Originally Posted by dotdotslash

I figured that Asuna and her mom were likely to reach some understanding, it just feels that the start of the story builds her mom up so that it seems like she'll be much more involved in the later episodes than she was. Not bad, but felt a bit flat. Like maybe if she'd investigated what Asuna was up to lately and stumbled onto Yuuki's plight herself it might have felt more "earned" than the way it turned out.

Yeah, I sort of felt the same way about this too. I liked the way the situation resolved... but it felt a little bit too quick/easy. In a way, it made Asuna seem almost too perceptive about her mother, and made Kyouko seem almost too shallow. All it took is for her to be reminded of the fact that she's working too hard and that her own parents still love her, and instantly she caves but puts forward a small demand to save face. It's a tiny bit too convenient. I too thought that maybe they'd connect it more to everything else that's going on and make her understand the other side of her daughter more... but I guess this works. I did like how Asuna took her to the virtual world to have their talk; that was a good move for a lot of reasons: not only does Asuna get "home field advantage", but it helps to bridge the gap of understanding. Now at least Kyouko can see that this "game world" is a lot more real than she was giving it credit for.

Like I said, I liked the way it resolved and it was definitely a nice scene and metaphor, but it also felt sort of understated and trivial. Although it took some courage for Asuna to do what she did, it didn't really feel that much like a "fight", because Asuna played a very convenient emotional trump card. In the end, they were both being babies a bit before, and all it took was one talk and the mom cracks. Proverbial tough cookie, I guess.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yeah, I sort of felt the same way about this too. I liked the way the situation resolved... but it felt a little bit too quick/easy. In a way, it made Asuna seem almost too perceptive about her mother, and made Kyouko seem almost too shallow. All it took is for her to be reminded of the fact that she's working too hard and that her own parents still love her, and instantly she caves but puts forward a small demand to save face. It's a tiny bit too convenient. I too thought that maybe they'd connect it more to everything else that's going on and make her understand the other side of her daughter more... but I guess this works.

Hmm, I think some of the info that was omitted from the LN may provide a bit more context for this.

Spoiler for omitted LN info:

It's "loved her", as Asuna's grandparents have long since passed away, their house torn down and the mountain sold. The scenery is not only a reminder of where she came from, but also what has been lost forever.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Baldurkai

I wonder how that little toy thing lasted a whole day without recharging.

I haven't watched the episode yet, but it's probably intended to signify that battery capacities are significantly improved by 2026; which, unless things go very wrong, they should be. That's one thing I appreciate about Kawahara's work - that there's a variety of technological and societal changes, rather than the world being the exact same outside one or two defining gimmicks.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Hmm, I think some of the info that was omitted from the LN may provide a bit more context for this.

Spoiler for omitted LN info:

It's "loved her", as Asuna's grandparents have long since passed away, their house torn down and the mountain sold. The scenery is not only a reminder of where she came from, but also what has been lost forever.

Spoiler for Reply to possibly-omitted info:

Ah... maybe this was actually mentioned in the anime and I just forgot it (perhaps there was something in the word tense or something that suggested it?)... but that actually helps a lot, and definitely explains why that would be enough to trigger such a strong emotional response. If her parents died and weren't able to really convey how proud they were of her, and that they were trying to keep that home for her in case she ever got tired of being such an over-achiever... then yeah. Taking her virtually back to the house she remembered from her childhood and telling her that story is quite the trump card. Can't look down on the mother for breaking after that.

Knowing this info makes the whole thing much more powerful for sure. Oh, and, it also ties back perfectly with the previous part of the episode where Asuna takes Yuuki to her old house that is going to be demolished, which totally explains where Asuna got the idea to to what she did for her mom.

I'll have to rewatch the arc at some point and see if this is just something I forgot or something they didn't mention. That's a pretty critical piece.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Like I said, I liked the way it resolved and it was definitely a nice scene and metaphor, but it also felt sort of understated and trivial. Although it took some courage for Asuna to do what she did, it didn't really feel that much like a "fight", because Asuna played a very convenient emotional trump card. In the end, they were both being babies a bit before, and all it took was one talk and the mom cracks. Proverbial tough cookie, I guess.

There was probably a bit of guilt involved. Reminding Asuna's mother Kyouko of how much her parents had supported her decisions would in turn help highlight that not only has Kyouko not been supportive of her daughter's decisions as far as school and love, she's actively worked to undermine them.

[dotdotslash]

I'm sure there's more depth in the LN version, there certainly was in some of the other arcs. It's just that I've seen second hand a number of relatives (sometimes parents, other times grandparents) who took years to accept their children's decision (or who never did).

Overall I like this arc a lot, and the emotional growth/journey that Asuna goes through is pretty well done. If her mom has just been pushing her to transfer I would have bought the mutual understanding that starts to develop in this episode more. It's the fact that she was being pushed, quite seriously, to agree to an arranged marriage that makes this part fall a bit flat for me.

[~Yami~]

thanks Reki-san for creating Konno Yuuki... she is definitely the "strongest" character
Teachers and students also act and treat Yuuki normally.. as expected from SAO survivor school.. Nothing could surprise them anymore

I should prepare for feels in each episode in Mother Rosario arc... the next episode would be the tearjerker I guess? damn! How much should I prepare my heart?

well, I like the mother-daughter bonding session... Asuna should be glad that her mom didn't ask about the ring in her hand
It is a nice and quick understanding though.. Thanks for explaining the reason from LN view though
I should try to bring my parents to play games as well

oh! loli Asuna!

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by dotdotslash

I'm sure there's more depth in the LN version, there certainly was in some of the other arcs. It's just that I've seen second hand a number of relatives (sometimes parents, other times grandparents) who took years to accept their children's decision (or who never did).

Overall I like this arc a lot, and the emotional growth/journey that Asuna goes through is pretty well done. If her mom has just been pushing her to transfer I would have bought the mutual understanding that starts to develop in this episode more. It's the fact that she was being pushed, quite seriously, to agree to an arranged marriage that makes this part fall a bit flat for me.

Actually, if you look back at it her mother didn't care all that much who Asuna married, so long as it was someone she considered worthy of Asuna's station: which in her eyes meant "no one from that school." It all looped around back to her prejudice about the school being filled with slackers and criminals, and not being a worthwhile place for Asuna to study. Convince that that isn't the case, and the marriage thing ceases to be an issue.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Actually, if you look back at it her mother didn't care all that much who Asuna married, so long as it was someone she considered worthy of Asuna's station: which in her eyes meant "no one from that school." It all looped around back to her prejudice about the school being filled with slackers and criminals, and not being a worthwhile place for Asuna to study. Convince that that isn't the case, and the marriage thing ceases to be an issue.

I think it's probably a little bit more than that. She alluded specifically to Kazuto, and Asuna asked if she had "looked into him". Of course, it could very well be that it still all revolves around the same prejudice and she was only judging whether or not he came from a suitable social-economic background. At this point, though, I think it was Asuna's determination that won her over, and she's willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as long as Asuna proves that she's putting in a serious effort. I think she may also have been a bit convicted that being a workaholic/over-achiever like her isn't necessarily the right move for everyone, so Asuna doesn't have to follow in her footsteps as long as she takes a good path.

[Psyco Diver]

I get the feeling next episode will have some super feels moments in it