AnimeSuki Forums

avmoghe · 2004-06-10, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Sannin

listen i don't want to turn this to a flameoff so this is what i m gonna say..

u r way over exagerating... only episode which i couldn't handle was due to the crappy art which was naruto vs akamaru (yes i forgot the dog handler's name cus it was a stupid episode).. the art was crap the fight was crap,

otherwise the rest of the episodes are ok, yes the plot developed really slow.. till itachi came out, the series got really interesting... long staring contests.. what are you talking about? i didn't see flashbacks where jirayia was holding kisame and itachi in that summoning jutsu in the stomach of a frog... oh let me guess, that wasn't a fight?

anyways anyone know the airtimes of monster and what raw episodes are avaliavble?

No, I'm not interested in starting a flame war either. Just pointing out what is in the series.

What the heck does Itachi have to do with anything.. he showed only in the last 5-6 episodes. Are you telling me to completely ignore the first 80 episodes?

Let me get this straight.. you are asking me to point out where in Naruto there are repeated flashbacks? Is that right? If you are, I have no interest in talking with you.

Staring contests -
1.) see any episode where they are reducing the number of contestants for the second chuunin exam. Count the number of times they go around showing everyones face.
2.) Count the number of times that hinata stared at Naruto and said the word "Naruto Kun".
3.) Count the number of times we saw Hokage and Orochimaru in the their standoff.
4.) Naruto , Gaara in the jungle. See how much time they spend staring at each other.
5.) Shikamaru vs. Temari fight. same as above.

Compare how much happened in each of the above episodes to how much happens in an episode of monster.

If you still think the quality of Naruto is anywhere near monster then I give up.

Ero-Sannin · 2004-06-10, 23:28

lets continue this argument in private messages...

~~ZeppelinJ0~~ · 2004-06-10, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by avmoghe

No, I'm not interested in starting a flame war either. Just pointing out what is in the series.

What the heck does Itachi have to do with anything.. he showed only in the last 5-6 episodes. Are you telling me to completely ignore the first 80 episodes?

Let me get this straight.. you are asking me to point out where in Naruto there are repeated flashbacks? Is that right? If you are, I have no interest in talking with you.

Staring contests -
1.) see any episode where they are reducing the number of contestants for the second chuunin exam. Count the number of times they go around showing everyones face.
2.) Count the number of times that hinata stared at Naruto and said the word "Naruto Kun".
3.) Count the number of times we saw Hokage and Orochimaru in the their standoff.
4.) Naruto , Gaara in the jungle. See how much time they spend staring at each other.
5.) Shikamaru vs. Temari fight. same as above.

Compare how much happened in each of the above episodes to how much happens in an episode of monster.

If you still think the quality of Naruto is anywhere near monster then I give up.

Please stay on topic!!! To each his own... I could point out the fact that you know quite a lot of details to be making your argument but then again I'd be a hypocrite.

Read the topic, Monster 9, take your closed-minded opinions somewhere else.

mantidor · 2004-06-12, 16:44

weren't you saying "aaaawww" at the end of the episode? Tenma is like the nicest person ever, usually I hate characters like that, but he has grown on me, I can't believe it.

avmoghe, you scrutinize every episode too much! I didn't like the flashbacks either but is no reason to complain that much, and what if the girl is not important later? I personally don't care, of course it was very corny, so what? It seems you take obession to a new level when not even a second of a series can be wasted...I mean you even count the minutes when a scene happens!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by avmoghe

[...]and you'd see Tenma with a gun at the 10-11 minute mark (out of 20 mins).[...]

What do you think if you just relax, lay back and enjoy this amazing series or any other? I do that ^_^

avmoghe · 2004-06-12, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantidor

weren't you saying "aaaawww" at the end of the episode? Tenma is like the nicest person ever, usually I hate characters like that, but he has grown on me, I can't believe it.

avmoghe, you scrutinize every episode too much! I didn't like the flashbacks either but is no reason to complain that much, and what if the girl is not important later? I personally don't care, of course it was very corny, so what? It seems you take obession to a new level when not even a second of a series can be wasted...I mean you even count the minutes when a scene happens!!!

What do you think if you just relax, lay back and enjoy this amazing series or any other? I do that ^_^

lol =) Nah.. I wasn't saying "aaaawwww." I was furiously thinking about how the girl might possibly be relevant to the story.

I don't know what you mean by me scrutinizing episodes too much. I have a simple requirement - the show shouldn't show anything that isn't essential to the story. Simple isn't it? =) I praise any episode that manages this, and criticize any episode that fails.

I really do not care how Tenma deals with sad, depressed little girls who have lost their parents since it isn't essential to the story (of course, assuming the girl never shows up again). Character development is necessary as long it is relevant to the story. Any other time spent on it is a waste. For example, showing anything about Tenma's family or how he behaves with them would be a waste since they have absolutely nothing to do with the story. (see the series cowboy bebop for more examples of what I mean by waste)

Sorry, but I demand that the precious screen time be used optimally. During the first seven episodes, the show managed this flawlessly, and I've praised the show for that repeatedly. When it fails to do this, I am ruthless with the criticism

I'm glad that you are enjoying the show though.

PS - if you want to see a perfect example of 'not wasting a second' see a television series called 'Law and Order'. =)

mantidor · 2004-06-12, 22:46

oh, when I said you scrutinize I was refering to the "minute mark", when Im watching anime I completly forget about time... instead it seems you keep track of the time and scenes, wich honestly scares me

you should keep in mind that for the people who made the anime this screen time of the girl wasn't a waste, they thought, according to their own standards, that this side-story would fit the story perfectly, that it would contribute to Tenma's char development. The only way you (or anyone for that matter) could find an anime perfect is if you make it yourself (although some come very close to perfection, like this one

).

anyway I was very touched by the scene at the end...

Spoiler:

I've become such a wuss thanks to dl so much anime

I've would thought that scene was so corny a few years back...

Law & order? I think there are various versions, wich one are you talking about? I heard that chris meloni is in one of them, that would make me see it even if is just an awful series

yeah, im that kind of Oz fan

avmoghe · 2004-06-12, 23:47

oh.. um.. I looked at the minute mark so that I could make a post here. I was explaining how episodes 8 and 9 could've easily be fit into one episode, provided the little girl never existed.

Yes, I realize that the creators of the anime have a differing opinion. I'm just illustrating that I disagree with their choice, and the reason why I disagree with it.

As I said, in my view, character development, by itself, is absolutely worthless. It is only necessary when it supplements the plot. (see Cowboy Bebop for plenty of these kinds of episodes.. pointless episodes, supposedly developing characters, but with absolutely no bearing on the story) I certainly hope monster doesn't turn out like that.

But you are right, Monster is the closest thing to the perfect anime I've seen yet (despite my harsh criticism). If you had asked me before ep 8 aired, I would've heartily pronounced it to really be perfect, not 'almost'.

Hehe... that's wierd.. you thought it was corny, but still enjoyed it ?

When I saw Law and Order, I mean Law and Order .. hahahaha. =) As in the original. Not a second of screen time is wasted. The show doesn't spend a second going into the personal lives of characters or pointless character development.. why? because its irrelevant to the story. I like that attitude very very much.
I despise Special victims unit, and the criminal intent show. They cant match the original imo.

mantidor · 2004-06-13, 00:10

my english sucks

I meant that a few years back if I'd saw that scene I would have said "what? are you trying to make cry? you are so ridiculous" but now I say just " aawww".

Now that I just looked in the dictionary, corny doesn't mean what I thought

I was refering more like something that is sentimental but in a stupid and ridiculous way, is there a word for that?

~~ZeppelinJ0~~ · 2004-06-13, 01:08

I still believe that Episode 9 did follow the plot, almost perfectly. I thought about it again, and at the end of episode 8 when he is seen with the gun, it would have been odd if the next episode we suddenly see him as a Master with the gun.

The episode was necessary not only to offset that fact, but there was also an underlying theme to the episode that he is learning to kill others to protect people such as that little girl. What makes it even more powerful is that he doesn't know the little girl, but she had awakened him to how people like Johan and the trainer (in his past) had used violence as a weapon, and how he wants to put a stop to that. In essence Tenma still plans on saving lives, but not with a scalpel, but with a gun. (Kind of ironic, but hey, out with the bad)

avmoghe · 2004-06-13, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantidor

my english sucks

I meant that a few years back if I'd saw that scene I would have said "what? are you trying to make cry? you are so ridiculous" but now I say just " aawww".

Now that I just looked in the dictionary, corny doesn't mean what I thought

I was refering more like something that is sentimental but in a stupid and ridiculous way, is there a word for that?

hehe you're going soft

Corny/cheesy would be good approximations I would say. Best word I can think of would be over-the-top.

Melty Snow · 2004-06-19, 06:36

Yea, it would really be weird to see Tenma pull out a gun like a pro later on in the series without knowing how he learn to handle one. This really was a sweet episode hilighting Tenma's character as a nice, good man, where his sin of bringing a monster back to life was just a fluke. His good nature seemed to not only affect the girl, but also the mercenary. Might be just me, but the mercenary (chopstick n00b) looked like he was defending Tenma because he actually likes him, as opposed to his policy of not giving out student information (or maybe he said that as an excuse?). It kinda bothered me that the girl had eyes like Lunge.... evil eyes.....

Soul Bro Ryu · 2004-06-29, 23:16

As long as the series can imbelish in the Manga as much as possible, I have no problem with whatever stories of Monster are animated. Besides, if there are those that don't like the story about the little girl and the mercenary, just give up on the show now. Urasawa's style is to make a whole out of MANY parts; meaning there are going to be times that we will be TORN away from Dr. Tenma & Johan in order to be introduced to other less important characters that either:

* Make the storyline flourish.

* Or advance the plotline in ways you may not always expect.

It's been said many times, but I'll echo that Naoki Urasawa is the man, and I'll make no petty complaints about his storytelling style. There are time in Monster, that you'll learn a major plot point and the next chapter/episode will tear you completely away from that. At first, that disorienting method slightly annoyed me, but it only made Monster (and even more so, 20th Century Boys) more enjoyable when all the pieces of the plot fell into place.

As for the "Law & Order" reference, it's a digable show, but it seems to put everything on the table way to quickly in order to squeeze interesting stories into a 45 min block. Personally, I'd rather have something like "The Shield" that will keep me in suspense the entire season. And just like Monster, that show does not reveal all it's secrets at once despite it's episodic-serial feel.

Good stuff this series, and big up to Madhouse for blessing us with it. BTW, if you want this series to hit the states, go out and buy the Master Keaton series on DVD and let Geneon know that you want to see more Urasawa. Maybe we'll get "Yawara" too - but I won't hold my breath. ^_^

Neo_FNR · 2004-07-10, 12:57

i like this serie very much and the best ep for me i think it is.. ep 10

i0td · 2006-08-14, 16:25

Resurrecting an old thread, because I've picked up this series late. But I'm not going to stall any longer though.

I found this episode very moving, the side plot very emotional even though the characters and their story were only just introduced. Filler? A little, but we do get some plot development (we watch Tenma master the art of wielding the gun, but wielding to kill? as the mercenary points out, that's still to be found out if you've only watched this far). And who can really say that they did not enjoy watching how this touching story came to a close? I was especially glad to see that even though Tenma has been trained in this deadly skill, he is still the doctor he has been for these past years, still the very caring person who deep down wants everyone to live happily. The smile coming from the girl at the end of this episode was just precious and really gave this a heartwarming ending.

This series has yet to disappoint me.

2004-06-12, 22:46	Link #26
mantidor the Iniquitous Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: bogotá	oh, when I said you scrutinize I was refering to the "minute mark", when Im watching anime I completly forget about time... instead it seems you keep track of the time and scenes, wich honestly scares me you should keep in mind that for the people who made the anime this screen time of the girl wasn't a waste, they thought, according to their own standards, that this side-story would fit the story perfectly, that it would contribute to Tenma's char development. The only way you (or anyone for that matter) could find an anime perfect is if you make it yourself (although some come very close to perfection, like this one ). anyway I was very touched by the scene at the end... Spoiler: when the girl grab the hand of the mercenary and walked away with him, aaaww I've become such a wuss thanks to dl so much anime I've would thought that scene was so corny a few years back... Law & order? I think there are various versions, wich one are you talking about? I heard that chris meloni is in one of them, that would make me see it even if is just an awful series yeah, im that kind of Oz fan

2004-06-10, 23:28	Link #22
Ero-Sannin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kuwait Age: 39	lets continue this argument in private messages...

2004-06-12, 23:47	Link #27
avmoghe Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004	oh.. um.. I looked at the minute mark so that I could make a post here. I was explaining how episodes 8 and 9 could've easily be fit into one episode, provided the little girl never existed. Yes, I realize that the creators of the anime have a differing opinion. I'm just illustrating that I disagree with their choice, and the reason why I disagree with it. As I said, in my view, character development, by itself, is absolutely worthless. It is only necessary when it supplements the plot. (see Cowboy Bebop for plenty of these kinds of episodes.. pointless episodes, supposedly developing characters, but with absolutely no bearing on the story) I certainly hope monster doesn't turn out like that. But you are right, Monster is the closest thing to the perfect anime I've seen yet (despite my harsh criticism). If you had asked me before ep 8 aired, I would've heartily pronounced it to really be perfect, not 'almost'. Hehe... that's wierd.. you thought it was corny, but still enjoyed it ? When I saw Law and Order, I mean Law and Order .. hahahaha. =) As in the original. Not a second of screen time is wasted. The show doesn't spend a second going into the personal lives of characters or pointless character development.. why? because its irrelevant to the story. I like that attitude very very much. I despise Special victims unit, and the criminal intent show. They cant match the original imo.

2004-06-13, 00:10	Link #28
mantidor the Iniquitous Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: bogotá	my english sucks I meant that a few years back if I'd saw that scene I would have said "what? are you trying to make cry? you are so ridiculous" but now I say just " aawww". Now that I just looked in the dictionary, corny doesn't mean what I thought I was refering more like something that is sentimental but in a stupid and ridiculous way, is there a word for that?

2004-06-13, 01:08	Link #29
~~ZeppelinJ0~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Cali	I still believe that Episode 9 did follow the plot, almost perfectly. I thought about it again, and at the end of episode 8 when he is seen with the gun, it would have been odd if the next episode we suddenly see him as a Master with the gun. The episode was necessary not only to offset that fact, but there was also an underlying theme to the episode that he is learning to kill others to protect people such as that little girl. What makes it even more powerful is that he doesn't know the little girl, but she had awakened him to how people like Johan and the trainer (in his past) had used violence as a weapon, and how he wants to put a stop to that. In essence Tenma still plans on saving lives, but not with a scalpel, but with a gun. (Kind of ironic, but hey, out with the bad)

2004-06-19, 06:36	Link #31
Melty Snow <3 WoW undead girls Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in a cold puddle	Yea, it would really be weird to see Tenma pull out a gun like a pro later on in the series without knowing how he learn to handle one. This really was a sweet episode hilighting Tenma's character as a nice, good man, where his sin of bringing a monster back to life was just a fluke. His good nature seemed to not only affect the girl, but also the mercenary. Might be just me, but the mercenary (chopstick n00b) looked like he was defending Tenma because he actually likes him, as opposed to his policy of not giving out student information (or maybe he said that as an excuse?). It kinda bothered me that the girl had eyes like Lunge.... evil eyes.....

2004-06-29, 23:16	Link #32
Soul Bro Ryu Your Neighborhood Newtype Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Winter Park, FL; USA Age: 47	As long as the series can imbelish in the Manga as much as possible, I have no problem with whatever stories of Monster are animated. Besides, if there are those that don't like the story about the little girl and the mercenary, just give up on the show now. Urasawa's style is to make a whole out of MANY parts; meaning there are going to be times that we will be TORN away from Dr. Tenma & Johan in order to be introduced to other less important characters that either: * Make the storyline flourish. * Or advance the plotline in ways you may not always expect. It's been said many times, but I'll echo that Naoki Urasawa is the man, and I'll make no petty complaints about his storytelling style. There are time in Monster, that you'll learn a major plot point and the next chapter/episode will tear you completely away from that. At first, that disorienting method slightly annoyed me, but it only made Monster (and even more so, 20th Century Boys) more enjoyable when all the pieces of the plot fell into place. As for the "Law & Order" reference, it's a digable show, but it seems to put everything on the table way to quickly in order to squeeze interesting stories into a 45 min block. Personally, I'd rather have something like "The Shield" that will keep me in suspense the entire season. And just like Monster, that show does not reveal all it's secrets at once despite it's episodic-serial feel. Good stuff this series, and big up to Madhouse for blessing us with it. BTW, if you want this series to hit the states, go out and buy the Master Keaton series on DVD and let Geneon know that you want to see more Urasawa. Maybe we'll get "Yawara" too - but I won't hold my breath. ^_^

2004-07-10, 12:57	Link #33
Neo_FNR Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brazil Age: 35	i like this serie very much and the best ep for me i think it is.. ep 10

2006-08-14, 16:25	Link #34
i0td Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Desert, USA Age: 37	Resurrecting an old thread, because I've picked up this series late. But I'm not going to stall any longer though. I found this episode very moving, the side plot very emotional even though the characters and their story were only just introduced. Filler? A little, but we do get some plot development (we watch Tenma master the art of wielding the gun, but wielding to kill? as the mercenary points out, that's still to be found out if you've only watched this far). And who can really say that they did not enjoy watching how this touching story came to a close? I was especially glad to see that even though Tenma has been trained in this deadly skill, he is still the doctor he has been for these past years, still the very caring person who deep down wants everyone to live happily. The smile coming from the girl at the end of this episode was just precious and really gave this a heartwarming ending. This series has yet to disappoint me.