2008-06-11, 07:26 | Link #21 | |
Incoherance is my friend!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It is an interesting quagmire, now heres a question how many other shows have been made into another IP like SDF/Robotech and how many modern contracts would easily let a series be "remade" to such an extent. Altho looking at 4kids it seems anything is possible, then again I might picking out extreams. Frontier leads to zero anything to push interest into another set of discs is always a winner and if theres enough momentum they can bring over 7, 7 has not aged so well its still a solid show it just looks a bit faded perhaps they have better masters...maybe recolor/remaster it abit.... but its going to be a long while until they can build up the macross franchise some before they will bring out M7..... altho if Galaxy Angel can be dubed and brought over....M7 has a much better chance at making profit... as long as US macross fans are not into "serious" anime.... then again i get a feeling M7 has enough in it to bring in a wide swatch of fans.
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2008-06-11, 08:27 | Link #22 | |||
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2008-06-11, 11:30 | Link #23 | |
Incoherance is my friend!
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Out of curiosity how many other shows have such odd legalities with music? Or was M7 done before music was handled better regionally speaking.
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2008-06-11, 11:41 | Link #24 |
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This isn't all that common, but it does happen from time to time, mostly with older shows. Off the top of my head, the same thing happened to Zeta Gundam and Kodocha. In both cases, the OP songs (both of Zeta's, and the Tokio songs) had a separate license, and they were replaced with different music. This isn't a viable solution for Macross 7 though, since the music plays a much more prominent role.
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2008-06-11, 11:48 | Link #25 | |
Incoherance is my friend!
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So much for tieing music to shows at least to a point where a steady flow of profit is shared..then again I guess up front contracts are easier to manage and better for the short run than a 1-5% off the top from a shows profit over time.
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2008-06-11, 14:44 | Link #26 |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
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American DVD industry on the whole is pretty awful about licensing music to keep costs down. Music heavy shows like Northern Exposure and WKRP in Cincinnati had basically all the music changed to generic dreck. IIRC even Married with Children didn't license the 'Love and Marriage' song for season releases past a point. Considering the anime industry on the whole is... in the crapper (Geneon, now maybe ADV, etc.) in R1 and what they'd have to compete with... Even if we ever saw an R1 Macross 7 it wouldn't have anything but new recordings of songs that sound absolutely nothing like Planet Dance or Totsugeki Love heart. Probably wouldn't even have a Japanese track. Not to mention the cost of either going to court with HG, or licensing the Macross TM. Hopefully Bandai Ent. will take HG to the house for Frontier, but considering whats been going on with BV USA, who knows. But then I have the M7 R2 remaster set, so whatever's clever.
I'd like to think that between Macross Frontier and the Robotech live action movie we're going to see things squared away no matter what within the next few years as far as Macross rights. If nothing else I can't really see Tobey Maguire being complacent about ignoring the Macross saga altogether, but you never know. I can still see the RT movie end up in the same limbo as the Halo movie. |
2008-06-11, 21:38 | Link #27 | ||
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2008-06-24, 20:32 | Link #28 |
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M7 and other similar anime like Nana would never get licensed here.
All the music featured in Nana would require separate licensing which would be too expensive to license and promote. Unless a big studio is willing to help promote the artists featured in the show and make some money from the music. The 2 main singers in Nana are pretty well known artists in Japan, their labels would definitely want a slice at the revenue. |
2008-06-24, 20:42 | Link #29 | |
Incoherance is my friend!
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2008-06-24, 21:07 | Link #30 | ||
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The impression I tend to get from BW is that it is afraid of loosing and thus either incurring an expensive long term lawsuit or loosing what grey area rights they have in the North American market. In the age of successful IP rights challenges this seems a bit irrational, but then again so is fear... Quote:
A month or so after the movie announcement a poster on the Robotech.com boards said that an insider told him that the movie was "facing" litigation, which could only mean that BW made their ownership known to WB. It is not uncommon for a studio to shelve a project for years. So long as they continue to pay Frank Agrama for the option of making a movie he won't push it either. If WB is determined to make the film based on Macross they will have to gain the option from BW themselves and despite what a lot of Americans think, a truck load of money won't be enough. This is about saving face and honor to the Japanese and that can't be bought. I am hopeful a resolution can be made, but unless someone ponies up the money to challenge HG's TM, we may only be able to hope to see, at best, subtitled releases from BV Japan on Bluray Disc. |
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2008-06-26, 23:44 | Link #31 | ||||
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I agree. It's still a bit unlikely to happen; therefore, Macross Frontier itself will probably be one of the most desirable properties to lie unlicensed for some time to come.
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2008-06-27, 12:54 | Link #32 | |||
Speedy Sea Cucumber
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The only real legal leg HG has to stand on is the Macross TM, and even then it’s kind of hazy. The whole case kind of reminds me of what happened with (ah, the nerd card…) SCO v. Novell a year or so ago, the gist of which was that SCO claimed full ownership (of UNIX) over a poorly worded contract that it was shown never gave them anything more than licensing rights. Granted, BW/HG is a different animal, but I could see the result being more or less the same. I think the biggest hold up to this point with regard to BW taking any action was simply the fact that a. they had no licensors and b. until Frontier, they really didn’t have anything to license. Zero took, what, 2.5 years to make? AFAIK it wasn’t a huge success, and the whole episode 4 to episode 5 transition reeks of cancellation. By the time they established their rights in 2002 it was already 7-8 years past Macross 7’s run, and it’s kind of questionable how it would have done in the west, considering both it’s age and it’s content. Regardless, it’s kind of a catch-22 right now; the anime industry in the US on the whole is in the crapper, but something like Frontier has namesake (that’s dwindling), and a real chance of being a crossover hit (IMO) should it get picked up on Sci-Fi or Adult Swim. The killer being that, whoever licenses it has to take the risk of incurring a lawsuit by Harmony Gold. Quote:
What is it about this forum and having to write novel length posts... uggh |
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2008-06-27, 16:40 | Link #34 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
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I still loved Zero regardless. |
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2009-05-22, 19:21 | Link #35 | |||||
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With respect to the current state of things...
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As for music, I don't think Flying Dog is nearly as big as Victor in Japan, so they don't have a large music distributor demanding rediculous amounts of money for licensing as they would have with Mac 7. Quote:
Another aspect is that with the announcement of the RT movie, BW may be hesitant to assert their rights in fear that WB may open its bank account against their efforts. However, a letter of intent and even tossing them a bone of first option on a Macross based movie might be enough to keep them silent during any legal challenge. However that requires some initiative from BW which we haven't seen yet. Quote:
I also suspect it is why Manga Entertainment has never made any attempt to bring over the remastered Plus or re-issue Macross II during its re-issue blitz a few years back. If you go to their website, you'll see they are very cozy with HG now, unlike before the TM was given to HG in the US. Quote:
Fansubs are a perfect gauge for them to determine which titles to license as well as developing partnerships with studios to get simulcasting of current shows running in both Japan and North America. Sites like Youtube are also excellent free broadcasting areas that allow shows to be shown in smaller resolutions to promote DVD sales later. The industry is clinging on to outdated, failing business models and trying to litigate profits from consumers and that will never work. Quote:
Frank would sell those rights in a heartbeat if the money were right. As for HG "suddenly finding out they had rights to DYRL", I'd call Bull$hit on that! What they may have learned is that BW doesn't know who owns all the rights to the movie and that in order to find out it would cost them much. Yet again Agrama is exploiting legal grey areas. If HG did indeed have any rights to DYRL they would have released it on DVD by now and we all know that hasn't happened.... Last edited by Zinjo; 2009-05-22 at 19:35. |
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2009-05-22, 19:26 | Link #36 | |
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OVAs never go beyond 5 episodes in Japan as all the studios and distributors believe that the market will not watch / buy an OVA series that is longer. That belief is based on traditional history of video sales. Whether it is real or imagined, it has yet to be challenged in the Japanese market. Last edited by Zinjo; 2009-05-22 at 19:41. |
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2009-05-22, 19:37 | Link #37 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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One perfect example is Legend of the Galactic Heroes, which spans over 100 episodes. Moreover, the recent Hellsing remake is already at its 5th OVA episode (50 minute each), and its not yet over. And I am not too sure if I'd agree to the claim that Macross not being a major title for Bandai. Certainly it is the second largest mecha franchise in Japan. I think the issue here is that Bandai doesn't really care about the anime market here in North America. After all, East Asia is where all the money is (for now). Moreover, since Gundam will never suffer from the same legal issues, we can't really use it as a gauge. On a further note, anime merchandise sales in NA pales in comparison when the East Asian market is considered. Therefore, how much emphasis do Japanese companies place on our market begs to be asked. - Tak
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2009-12-08, 23:23 | Link #38 |
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Harmony Gold legal use macross, Harmony Gold did buy to Tatsunoko Macross Rights. So Macross Fanboy no complain, Robotech legal use Macross design.
go www.robotech.com, it say "CAN USE ALL ROBOTECH", so can use macross design too. By contract Harmony Gold use too macross sequel design. |
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