2012-07-27, 09:13 | Link #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Are your criticisms directed at Frontier as a whole (movies and TV series)? It seems like they are directed at both but the problems you list apply more to the movies than the TV series. Sheryl's first concert in the TV series is far less over the top than her first concert scene in the movies for instance.
Also while I worry about Sheryl becoming too much of a spotlight stealer I think a duet between her and Basara would be awesome. Fukuyama and May'n have done duets in real life, and Sheryl is supposed to be something of a Fire Bomber fan (didn't Grace discover young Sheryl's love of singing from listening to her singing a Fire Bomber song or something? There's a drama CD segment with a very young Sheryl singing Totsugeki! Love Heart...). |
2012-07-27, 09:41 | Link #23 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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My gripe about the series & movies have some cringe-worthy lines is another matter . Quote:
Oh yeah, I promised to a certain someone here to give more detail example of the lines that I consider cringe-worthy, right? But I don’t have that much free time. So, I'll go with the most obvious episode, the last one. Here goes: Spoiler for Lines from the last episode (possible spoilers):
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2012-07-27, 11:04 | Link #25 | |
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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It appears that the person you most mention for the movies is Sheryl Nome's lines. Unless you dislike her, I'd give more examples in regards to the movies, because she isn't the only one with poetic lines. Alto and Ranka had some lines too, like his "I'll fly to the end of this battle" and her "wind to your wings" with Sheryl's response as "and song to the galaxy." But yes, Sheryl is poetic, but that comes from the fact that she has a French background, for she can read and speak the language as if a pro, so she is bound to have had some impressions in life that inspired her to speak in that context. Meanwhile, Alto was a kabuki actor, so he's had to speak lines like that his whole life. There is even a drama CD that starts with Alto speaking the lines to Romeo & Juliet (whilst playing Juliet). So he was not so far-fetched to speak lines like that. Ranka's poetic pieces most likely come from the fact she's been inspired by so many around her that she wants to express herself; and as she says "simple words are not enough." If you ask me, her most symbolic line is that she wishes for everyone to "embrace one another," because she wants to make peace in the galaxy using her songs. If you wanna talk about poetic symbolism, you obviously haven't listened to their songs enough. Sheryl and Ranka's songs have enough poetic symbolism to make you fall over in agony. It is because they are expressing themselves. Everyone in this show did. It's what makes Frontier so popular. The characters seem realistic rather than futuristic. They are given a third-dimension. The show is all about symbolism. That is why no matter what happened in the romance, I loved the show, even though I dislike certain characters' personalities (more than one). So, all in all, you're entitled to your own opinion, but everyone here will disagree with you on this matter, I guarantee it. Even I - the person who dislikes the ending of the romance most - will disagree that Frontier's lines were shitty and rip-offs. -- On the concert part, I don't really understand your problem with it. After all, this futuristic show takes place 20-30 years after the end of SDF (DYRL), in which Lynn Minmei's concert in the movie was completely unrealistic as was the Flashback. However, Sharon Apple's was worse in this context, for she was a program acting as a human in her concerts, controlled by Myung. 7 was meant to be different, as Fire Bomber wasn't supposed to be about glamor, but then again, Kawamori was only the mecha designer, not the planner, and Basara wasn't supposed to be the "fancy show off with bright lights or a remake of Elvis." Frontier changed that world by storm. It combined elements of DYRL and Plus together. The stage performances were more epic and futuristic because the show is supposed to constantly change to a later date, thus technology should logically increase. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. But I agree with Darth on the fact that there already is a duet between Fukuyama and May'n out there and there is a drama CD of Grace discovering Sheryl singing Totsugeki Love Heart (which made me laugh in her chibi voice). So the possibility is very high, especially because May'n loved playing Sheryl. However, the one I mostly wonder about is Nakajima (Ranka). I do not doubt they won't do some form of a duet or perhaps have a band performance. That way, Ozma would combine his two favorite things: Fire Bomber and his sister, Ranka Lee. And Sheryl would be able to sing with a legend. Now that would be a way to close the book of Frontier for good. Then again, didn't they already say goodbye with SnT?
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2012-07-27, 12:37 | Link #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 49
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Yeah, sorry, but I don't feel that "cringe" at all. It sounds like you'd prefer Frontiers protagonists to be cussing like people in a Tarantino movie. That would not capture the feel of Macross at all.
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2012-07-27, 17:36 | Link #29 | ||||||||||||||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Wow, there’s a long reply. So exciting.
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2012-07-27, 20:52 | Link #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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@Obelisk
Some of your criticisms are legit, but they aren't things that bother me very much. Also from my perspective Ranka's dialogue when she's trying to encourage Sheryl doesn't seem that out of place. Also that "Everyone! Embrace each other! To the ends of the universe!" is her equivalent to Basra and Sheryl's "Listen to my song!" so IMO that isn't very out of place either. Also while I think it was mostly there just to make things more visually interesting for us viewers, there is a certain logic to Sheryl's use of stage outfits and lighting. The effectiveness of her singing against the Vajra is very dependent on how into it she is, and making use of the things that were familiar to her as an idol helps her get into her performance. (And it is a performance -one that she fully expects to be the last one of her life. She's going all out for it.) |
2012-07-27, 21:08 | Link #31 | ||||||||||||||||
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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By the way, don't get me started on how many lines in Cowboy Bebop that copy Super-Dimensional Fortress Macross. I don't think that show should even be included considering its themes and characters' personalities. That was the least likely show to have any symbolic means. Quote:
Macross has been around for 25 years. Kawamori wanted something more original than "screaming and cursing at the enemy." He wanted to go for originality. So your complaint here goes more towards the creator who wanted to be different than all the rest out there. If you ask me, he's an inspiration in this matter. Besides, Alto did enough screaming in the series and movies to make up for it (whether it be reclaiming Ranka or saving Sheryl). Sorry, but your alone in this opinion. Quote:
Second, for your post, Quote:
My post, Quote:
I never once said television series or anything like that in that paragraph. I referred solely to the movies, since that line you spoke of is a direct quote from Sayonara no Tsubasa. Also, that so-called "poetic outburst" for Alto is also from the movies. I think you're getting screwed up in which universe is which. Quote:
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I personally like these characters over other Macross'. And Hikaru doesn't even add up to half of the others (he can die). Quote:
I would take my word of advice before if I were you. The others can tell you that difference of opinion can start fights here. Macross supporters never wave the white flag. Why even I haven't thrown away my shipping flag despite losing. So since you're new to certain parts of this universe, I would say watch the whole material before speaking of things you don't know. I have watched every Macross universe, no matter how large or small. I thought SDF was boring but DYRL was surely a masterpiece. Plus was very interesting and the artwork was simply beautiful. 7 always bored me to death, even though I loved Basara, as it had a long~ run with no build up until suddenly everything ended, and I personally felt the songs were repeated too much, as were the performances. Zero was too short and didn't leave much impression beyond the CGI artwork. Frontier was the best development in the series, as the characters were more three-dimensional, even relatable at times, and the concerts were flashy and attractive, pulling your attention to the screen, as was the artwork and design for the mecha, and finally, it had awesome dogfights (although only few). And so far, the only series you can mention is... 7 and Frontier. Which they do not compare to each other just based on the main characters chosen for the individual series'. The state in which both ships fell into was entirely different. The personalities of the characters were very different. The whole themes for each show was different. Shoji Kawamori (the author and script writer for Super-Dimensional Fortress Macross, Do You Remember Love?, Plus, Zero, and Frontier) did not write anything in Macross 7! It is only obvious that there is a large difference in plot, script writing, and characters because he had no say in 7 whilst he was the main writer for Frontier. It is as simple as that. Quote:
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But no matter how I look at your replies to this, I see you leave out the fact that the situations of the shows are very different. For one, the enemies of Alto were mostly Vajra. How could they understand him if he screamed inconsistent trash? They don't speak any human language. However, Brera could understand human language. Alto expressed himself greatly - his anguish and frustrations - all things he didn't want to pin on his friends that meant so much to him. He was human in this manner, screaming it to the enemy instead. Quote:
Alto has all of these things. If you didn't notice, Alto has three times more votes than Hikaru for favorite Macross characters. Note that. Quote:
If you ask me, 7 was a cringe for me. I still can't believe I finished it. I almost gave up at episode 25. I forced myself to continue it just to finish off the Macross series. Frontier was easy to catch my attention from episode one through twenty-five. They put in enough to keep you entertained whilst also flowing the story along. This is another way to tell the difference in writing regarding who wrote the scripts for both series. They differ greatly.
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2012-07-27, 22:10 | Link #32 | |||||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Of course, all of those are just my personal opinion. Everybody else is free to think otherwise. Your preference is not wrong nor do mine. They’re just different. @LoveMeKags Dear girl, since most of your reply to me is your Opinion, I don’t feel the necessity to reply to most of them. Our opinion will never met since we prefer different things. However, to make things clear I’ll answer some of your questions to me. Quote:
Why do I watched Frontier if don’t really like it? First, I like the Macross franchise up until Macross Plus (but I’m not one of those fans who remember all the Valkyries’ code-number) so I have the urge to watch the new Macross series. Second, I get the anime for free. It was given by my friend when I was in college to accompany my boring days in the dorm. Lastly, I finished it just for the lulz coz I have nothing to do at that time. Why Cowboy Bebop? You missed my point again. I didn’t mention Bebop for it’s symbolic nature. I mention it coz the characters act naturally in the middle of a battle, which is less talking and more shooting. The characters there don’t talk during battle/shootings unless it’s really necessary. Quote:
Do I have to check character bios aside from what I get from the actual show to say a line he’s/she’s spoken is cringe-worthy? Nope. Quote:
So I guess some very compelling characters from, say, The Dark Knight and Little Miss Sunshine does not come from the well-written scripts at all? Hint: their various backgrounds actually comes from the script.
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2012-07-28, 00:26 | Link #35 |
Absolute Haruhist!
Artist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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There has been lots of interaction between the Macross series in SRW.
I don't like the interaction between Basara and Sheryl, it always ends up in an ego clash with Sheryl disliking Basara because he seems to be hogging the stage every time he sings. But Basara's interaction with Minmay and Ranka is great. In SRWZ2.2, your people along with Alto were trapped in a separate dimension, Ranka and Sheryl were terribly worried and couldn't concentrate on preparing for their concert. Basara then told them its useless to worry, instead they should concentrate on what they can and should do, which is sing. Sheryl snapped back at Basara for being inconsiderate and stupid, but Ranka joined in with her song. And because of Ranka and Basara's voices being able to transcend space-time, the lost crew were able to follow their song and return to the normal universe. Alto thanked Basara and for the first time acknowledged his passion, but Basara said it was Ranka's voice that reached him. This was when Sheryl dropped into jealousy and self pity. But the best interaction was between Basara and Minmay in SRW Alpha3, which when they first met was in the finale of Macross 7, where Gepelnitch went berserk and drained everyone's Spiritia. It was Minmay's song that awoken Basara who then went on to stop Gepelnitch. Basara and Minmay had great respect for each other's music and then collaborated in a song, GONG, sang by JAM Project. GONG then became the song that saved the galaxy in the ending.
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2012-07-28, 13:31 | Link #37 | |||||||
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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But you like M7; so to each their own. Quote:
However, comparing it to Frontier doesn't work. The situations of the characters are different. Their personalities are very different. Plus, there are a lot of moments in which there was nothing but screaming and cursing - mainly from Alto, my prime example being the major battle in the first movie. I think your problem comes from confrontations of characters instead. The very first confrontation that had really "poetic" speech was episode twelve in which Alto faced off against Tehmzin (the rebel Zentradi). This is a war that's been going on for how many generations now, folks? Alto was dragged into this fight though he doesn't want to kill anyone, and he was dragged into this war by the desire to protect others. Naturally, he would be trying to reach peace with the enemy. However, he is not beyond the ability to get pissed off, as he's shown when Tehmzin mentions the word "blood." The second confrontation lasts throughout the rest of the show really: Alto vs. Brera. But whilst Alto has always detested Brera, he doesn't hate or desire to kill him. They have a thing in common: they both want the best for Ranka. They want peace. When two people like this line up, their personalities are bound to clash and arguments of this nature are bound to happen. But nonetheless, they are still trying to protect what they assume is right. So even though they are having disagreements verbally, they must fight for their beliefs. The script writing for Frontier wasn't the horrible part and we've already discussed this. It was the time-frame for the whole show, shoving the final battle into an episode and a half, having to end it so quickly that you get whip-lash. The pacing of the show was its main problem. But then again, M7 was worse... Quote:
After all, the love triangle seemed to be the prime focus otherwise... Quote:
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That aside, I am unsure about Sheryl still. However, I can picture Ranka doing it. She would enjoy singing with Basara, I'm sure. Since Ozma is a big fan, she is bound to know some of their songs. But Sheryl has always been Ranka's inspiration. It is unclear by the story (series and movies) if Ranka is a fan or not of Minmei. Singing her main songs is not the same as acknowledging her as a person you idolize. So the duet is still up in the air. I guess we'll just find out.
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2012-07-28, 19:44 | Link #38 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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@Obelisk
If you're just going by the subs, may I just note that some of the translations for Frontier really were cringe-worthy? To date, I haven't actually seen a sub of any Frontier work where I haven't cringed at least once. Granted, I agree with you about some of the dialogue ('you are both my wings' ), but most of it really isn't as cringe-worthy in Japanese as the subs suggest... The lines during the battle scenes in particular really needed more creative translations rather than some of the literal translations they got... --- At any rate, it would be interesting to see what in the world they're doing with this FB7 film...
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2012-07-28, 20:51 | Link #40 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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I also agree with Darth. Some example of faithful translation will be pretty enlightening.
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