A mistake with Sasuke that the series made

[Derrex]

There can only be one protagonist in this anime...

[CyberPunk]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

just re-watch the episode where sasuke arrived in the exam to fight gaara.
Look at his facial expressions and overall show off behaviour.

you're a fucking liar if you wouldn't do the same. some psychopath finds your training spot and threatens you, turning your exam match into a death match only to have his fucking ass beaten all over the arena by you. i couldn't help but let out a small chuckle if i was in the same situation. you people just look for any reason to hate sasuke. you analyze every fucking response or statement he makes just to find something to hate him for when naruto clearly does more boasting.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Originally Posted by CyberPunk

you're a fucking liar if you wouldn't do the same. some psychopath finds your training spot and threatens you, turning your exam match into a death match only to have his fucking ass beaten all over the arena by you. i couldn't help but let out a small chuckle if i was in the same situation. you people just look for any reason to hate sasuke. you analyze every fucking response or statement he makes just to find something to hate him for when naruto clearly does more boasting.

Are you fucking retarded? No one is bashing Sasuke idiot. Learn to read the post before you make your half ass fan-boi comments.

My thread was about whether or not changing Sasuke's personality from what it used to be weakened the current manga arc. Whether the arc would be so awesome if the reader was torn between rooting for Naruto and rooting for Sasuke.

And just for your information, it may have been the "normal" thing for him to chuckle and show off in his situation but that doesnt make him bad-ass. Just look at Itachi. He can kick everyones ass but he remains polite and humble. That is why he is such an amazing character.

Some people just like starting flame wars. Take your rubbish somewhere else if you cannot argue your point in a non abusive way.

[psycoking]

Sasuke personality hasn't changed much, he was always arrogant and a bit full of himself (and before somebody jumps down my throat, I'm not saying he's the only one like that). But that attitude is what made most people think of him as cool in the beginning of the series. At the chuunin finals, I can't say much changed. I wouldn't call his behavior after showing up late as being more arogant than before. If anything I just though he was more confidant in himself, which isn't a bad quality. Afterall, wouldn't you fell a whole lot better about yourself after you just learned some kick ass taijutsu and a super ultra power jutsu to top it all off. Maybe some people thought of him as arogant at that point because he had been missing from the series for quite some time (the 1st match of the prelims) before his reappearance there, and were no longer use to his attitude.

Plus I find that a lot of people hate sasuke just because

Spoiler:

he became a badguy. However, you can't really hate a character just cause he's the badguy or is acting all evil. Afterall, naruto would be a really lame show if it didn't have any villans. Personally, I was nutral on sasuke before the current arc, but once he started his downward slop toward evil I thought he was getting much more interesting as a character.



except for that DAMN "kukuku"ing. I really hate that he does that now.

[slippery shinobi]

i think most people hate sasuke is bc they judge him with konohas morals (i.e. "good"). thats why they talk about sasuke "betraying" konoha.
I dont see anything wrong with sasuke leaving konoha cuz i understand hes evil now. Nobody says oro is stupid cuz he killed sarutobi cuz everyone knows oro is a sick, twisted, demented bastard.
About sasukes attitude, i know that he was always arrogant and a bit full of himself but those are qualifications you HAVE to have if u wanna be evil
Thats why people should learn to live with sasukes attitude cuz it will prolly get worse :fingers: lol
id hate to see sasuke turn good again but i dont think he will though

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Originally Posted by slippery shinobi

About sasukes attitude, i know that he was always arrogant and a bit full of himself but those are qualifications you HAVE to have if u wanna be evil

Itachi? Is he full of himself? Is he arrogant? No hes humble, soft spoken and even polite.

[slippery shinobi]

i think there are sevreal forms of evilness in naruto. You can be some sick guy like oro, which is 100% evil or you can be like itachi who i dont think is really evil, i think his means are evil not his goals, whatever they are

[Zek]

Spoiler:

Emotionally, Sasuke isn't as strong a character as Itachi is. That much should be obvious by now. His hatred of Itachi is his ultimate weakness and that's what changed him. There hasn't been any unnatural change in Sasuke's character during the series(if anything the real change was his improving condition until Itachi showed up), just a change in circumstances. If Sasuke were just as collected as he was before he wouldn't be abandoning Konoha, so the scenario you're asking for is impossible. He became power obsessed after his encounter with Itachi convinced him that everything he had been doing so far had been in vain. Kishimoto didn't mess up his character at all; this is how he has always been, there just wasn't anything to bring it to the surface until Itachi showed up.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

I see what you mean Zek, but understand im not arguing that Sasuke should be collected. I understand that he needs to be in turmoil and confusion right now after all thats happened to him.

Im asking about why Sasuke went from a confident and quiet lone wolf type character, and turned into a cocky and arrogant show-off later in the series.

[Terriator]

Originally Posted by Zek

Spoiler:

Emotionally, Sasuke isn't as strong a character as Itachi is. That much should be obvious by now. His hatred of Itachi is his ultimate weakness and that's what changed him. There hasn't been any unnatural change in Sasuke's character during the series(if anything the real change was his improving condition until Itachi showed up), just a change in circumstances. If Sasuke were just as collected as he was before he wouldn't be abandoning Konoha, so the scenario you're asking for is impossible. He became power obsessed after his encounter with Itachi convinced him that everything he had been doing so far had been in vain. Kishimoto didn't mess up his character at all; this is how he has always been, there just wasn't anything to bring it to the surface until Itachi showed up.

Word! Sasuke hasn't changed in any unnatural way in my opinion. He came back to the Chuunin exam after having trained intensly for a whole month, then how should he have been to keep the character? I think that the way he was when he entered the arena was only natural for the Sasuke that we got to know before the exam. He has like all the other characters evolved, but not in a unnatural way I think. This is the way sasuke is and always have been

[Last of the Uchiha]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

Im asking about why Sasuke went from a confident and quiet lone wolf type character, and turned into a cocky and arrogant show-off later in the series.

Thats the problem, he never went from a confident lone wolf type into a cocky and arrogant show off. He went from a confident lone wolf into a confident lone wolf. He went back to his old self, an avenger. By arrogant and show off you are describing almost everyone in Naruto.

[PerniciousJuJu]

Oh dear... here we go again...

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by psycoking

he became a badguy. However, you can't really hate a character just cause he's the badguy or is acting all evil. Afterall, naruto would be a really lame show if it didn't have any villans. Personally, I was nutral on sasuke before the current arc, but once he started his downward slop toward evil I thought he was getting much more interesting as a character.

But I do agree with psycoking. I think that Sasuke just made the series more interesting. In my opion, I think he's a coky, confident, power hungry, female dog. Oh boy, will I enjoy seeing the look on his face when Naruto kicks his ass. It would be priceless! I do, however, suppport Sasuke's actions! GOOOO SASUKE!

[psycoking]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchiha

Thats the problem, he never went from a confident lone wolf type into a cocky and arrogant show off. He went from a confident lone wolf into a confident lone wolf. He went back to his old self, an avenger. By arrogant and show off you are describing almost everyone in Naruto.

I had almost forgotten that sasuke was getting "better" once he joined team 7 and started worrying less about his revenge. Like LotU said, Sasuke just went back to his old self. But I think Sasuke more than just reverted but actually "worsened" as he grew deeper into his obsession with Itachi and started becoming power hungry. Of course looking at it this way I'd have to say the change took place after Itachi returned or after sasuke woke up from his Itachi induced coma rather than at the chuunin exam finals.

[Raisenso]

At first Sasuke was more like "I´m not powerful enough... have to get stronger!" when he still was stronger than most Geenins, right?

But I mean at that time he realy wasn´t anything to the high standards he aimed for! Itachi is somewhat at a Koge-level, and Sasukes sworn enemy.
But in time he found the sharingan hidden inside himself, and resived training from one of the last sharingan users alive!

He learned new jutsus, both Tai- and Nin and became more powerful for everyday, and i belive he began to see and compare his talents to the Chunnin´s, or even higher titles. I belive he finally understood just how much talent he realy posses, just before the fight with Gaara. SO OF COURSE HE BECAME COOKY!

I mean to be one of the two last Ochiha clan members, the true wielder of the Sharingan eyes, the strongest clan in whole of Fire-country is, indeed preety awsome!

...realy the more i think about this, the more I think about the Star Wars saga
I mean the young talented warrior, who began to reach his masters level and starts to walk the "dark-side" i search for power and strengh!

[Skorpa]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

I wanna talk a little bit about Sasuke.

In my opinion tehy killed Sasuke's personality. In the eariler episodes Sasuke was very likeable. He had all of his usual prodigy talents but he was never arrogant in an annoying or repulsive kind of way. He belittled Naruto but it was in a buddy buddy type of way.

He was not cocky in a bad way. He was simply confident. Very confident. He was a lone wolf type character who did not like attention or try to show off.

But the critical turning point where the mistake was made was in the Sasuke vs Gaara fight. That is where most people began to dislike Sasuke. When he and Kakashi came late its as if a new Sasuke than the one we knew walked into that stadium. He was unbelievably arrogant. He had the most annoying full of himslef grin all over his face. He was not humble in the least. He had gone from a confident quiet lone wolf to a cocky show off.

This in my opinion is very bad. The reason being spoiler related,

Spoiler:

As you know, Sasuke will run away and become a sort of bad guy. Hell confront Naruto in a serious manner in the next few manga chapters. The problem is that if the anime had kept Sasuke as a humble confident brooding guy that made him so awesome in the earlier part of the series, we would be faced with a dilema.

Emotional fights come up when you dont want a loser. When you wish the two opponents would just hug and make up lol. That is the reason the Haku vs Naruto/Sasuke fight was so powerful. Because it was a tragedy for anyone to lose. This whole manga arc could be very emotional and thrilling if Sasuke was not such an ass.

In my opinion whover's fault it may be, the animators or Kishimoto, they should not have turned Sasuke into an ass. It would give the whole arc a haku sadness type flavour that would seriously strenthen the plot. Especially right now after all the mindless soul-less fights between the sounds ninja , Kimi and the Genins.

Emotional punch is kind of lacking im sad to say.

I agree with you. sasuke wasnt that bad in the beginning, he was just confident. Then he became an asshole.

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

I wanna talk a little bit about Sasuke.

In my opinion tehy killed Sasuke's personality. In the eariler episodes Sasuke was very likeable. He had all of his usual prodigy talents but he was never arrogant in an annoying or repulsive kind of way. He belittled Naruto but it was in a buddy buddy type of way.

He was not cocky in a bad way. He was simply confident. Very confident. He was a lone wolf type character who did not like attention or try to show off.

But the critical turning point where the mistake was made was in the Sasuke vs Gaara fight. That is where most people began to dislike Sasuke. When he and Kakashi came late its as if a new Sasuke than the one we knew walked into that stadium. He was unbelievably arrogant. He had the most annoying full of himslef grin all over his face. He was not humble in the least. He had gone from a confident quiet lone wolf to a cocky show off..

Okay, from where we are first introduced to Sasuke to the point of late, dramatic entrances into arenas, you are analyzing his personality. Hope I got that right. I don't see a mistake in this at all. We are what we experience right. There is a definate change there, you are absolutely right about that. He was definately a lone wolf individual whose skills were his skills. As far as the taunting of Naruto being buddy buddy, I don't agree with that, I was under the impression that he just disliked Naruto. But he got to know Naruto and Sakura and develop other feelings. From what I gathered in this anime/manga, he was without emotional connection since the Uchiha Massacre. That's a long time. So, the definate change that was brought on was actually brought on by recognition. That cocky look that he had at the Finals was actually not the first time he had that look. What about Zabuza/Kakashi fight 2, where Zabuza thought he was scared again but he was actually shaking with excitement. Or when he was fighting Haku? I think that the cockiness grew as he got recognized more. Heck, everyone was there to see him and Gaara fight basically, casting bets and all. He was the star attraction. Good analysis Wolf. I got one for you too

Spoiler for manga readers:

You know the feeling where a person think's he's the s*** gets proven wrong? That's what happened in my opinion when he wanted to fight Naruto on top of the roof of the hospital. He basically watched the whole Naruto/Gaara fight on his knees LOL. That's where he started getting taken down a notch. I can't wait to see what happens when this power he is experiencing gets overpowered. Because he has that look again right now that you were talking about.

[VMLM3]

Just thought I'd bring my two cents to the board.
One of the things I like about naruto is how carefully the characters have been mapped out and developed, with most major characters anything in the way they act can be traced to something that happened in the past. But that's not all, as the story progresses major tuning points in the series also become important moments in the lives of the characters, changing them and molding them.
Having said that, I have to say I disagree with Wolf, the changes in Sasuke come from his reactions to the happenings in the series, he changes in a logical way that takes into his consideration his personality at every instance. When he first leaves the academy he's wretched, he's been training so hard for so long out of hate and so singlemindedly that he has become something of a loner, however he is still unproven when he first graduates from the Academy, he has never participated in real battle, he doesn't really know that his training has paid off.
When he joins team 7 and starts to gain actual combat experience he realizes he's pretty strong, he feels good about himself. As is commonly the case with people who have to rely on each other utterly, he develops strong bonds of friendship with his team, his new friendship distracts him from his hate. As he distances himself from his hate and his skill keep improving (Sasuke is always power hungry, his brothers departure was a huge trauma after all) he becomes cocky. Finally two things happen:

Spoiler:

Firstly, Naruto, someone who he has always viewed as inferior succeeds in defeating Gaara. He couldn't even get past Gaara's armor, much less take on the full fledged Funky Racoon (can't remember the name...).
Secondly he fights Itachi, he gets beaten badly, he doesn't even scratch Itachi. This is a major blow to Sasuke, he becomes desperate, he feels he has to become more powerful as fast as possible.

Which leads us to Sasuke now,His main focus is, and has always been power. He isn't evil yet, but he is more full of hatred than at any previous moment. He feels angry with himself for slacking off (in truth his motivation to become stronger had gone down because he felt powerful since almost everyone that he'd fought or seen fight was below his level.) while others became more powerful. He feels resentful towards Naruto because he feels weak and sees Naruto as a strong ninja; he may feel that through fighting him he can prove his worth.
I don't think Sasuke's current state of mind is out of zinc with the series or that it detracts from the story in anyway, I'm sure Kishimoto's wonderful imagination will provide a conflict just as good as the Haku conflict without giving us a sense of Deja vu (personally I wouldn't like it if the same sort of character conflict occured over and over in the series, would you?).

[Dauthi]

If you think about it this way, it makes sense, and his character is progressing logically.

After Itachi uses his mange sharingan on him the first time, hes pretty messed up, if Oro gave a hand to him at that point do you think he would take it? Hell yea.

But it ends up he doesnt have that opportunity, instead his only option is to train in Konoha, to obtain his one and only goal, to kill Itachi. When he ends up on team 7 however, things change because he grows bonds with his team. For the first time since that incident he has people to protect etc, so he starts to change into a better person.

However after Itachi hits him with the second Mange sharingan and he goes into a coma, hes reverted back to the first time he was hit with it, or worse. This time Oro does open a hand to him, and hes already tasted some of Oros power. Its pretty obvious what this character would do.

[BigIdiot]

apart from his new "decision" in the manga, and his rotten attitude since chunnin exam #2, the biggest mistake on Sasuke's part is his new suit.

its like a black women's dress mixed with Edwards Scissor hands and weird elbow protectors. Looks terrible.

[VMLM3]

Originally Posted by BigIdiot

apart from his new "decision" in the manga, and his rotten attitude since chunnin exam #2, the biggest mistake on Sasuke's part is his new suit.

its like a black women's dress mixed with Edwards Scissor hands and weird elbow protectors. Looks terrible.

So true... old uchiha clan outfit was so much better