Civilization: Beyond Earth

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You will find the link below helpful. It has a lot of details.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/04/12/ci...logy-and-more/

Now you get me more sold than ever.

[com_gwp]

Why can't I hold all this hype!

A new Civilization is always amazing news, and we're even going the Alpha Centuri route. I can see myself sinking another few hundred hours into this.

[MrTerrorist]

Nice! I bought and played Alpha Centuri from GOG.com and i like the monologues and philosophies from the various leaders. I played the Spartans and utterly destroyed the Lord's Believers and bullied (and bribed, threaten, building better weapons) the rest of the surviving factions by making me their leader.

I wonder if i could do the same thing in Beyond Earth?

[Sheba]

I always marked the Believers as acceptable genocide targets lol. Seriously, those becomes a nuisance when you left them unchecked for too long. On the other hand, Lal, Morgan and Zakharov always seems to be the first to fizzle out.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Nice! I bought and played Alpha Centuri from GOG.com and i like the monologues and philosophies from the various leaders. I played the Spartans and utterly destroyed the Lord's Believers and bullied (and bribed, threaten, building better weapons) the rest of the surviving factions by making me their leader.

I wonder if i could do the same thing in Beyond Earth?

My link above answered that. There are three philosophies you can pick one of, that affect your entire faction and the units you have. And you have two ways to win; the special victory that your chosen philosophy has, and the general victory that everyone can aim for.

The General Victory is building something that leads to contact with an intelligent alien race. Philosophy specific victories are "warp gate set up connecting to earth so you can send Earth settlers to your world", "warp gate set up connecting to Earth so you can conquer it." and "become one with the planet's hive mind".

The special thing is that to win, you need to build things that are fragile and appear on the map. And you need to defend it with soldiers because until the timer counts down to zero, you haven't won yet. So for example, getting settlers from Earth to the new planet means defending the new settlers until they are secure. And the alien attraction beacon is likewise able to be destroyed by your enemies unless you protect it.

Looks like Kotaku got more details on how the game starts:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/04/wer...nds-fantastic/

[Dark Faith]

I don't usually make Day One Purchases... but Civ in space? This has been on my wish list for years now.

[DragoonKain3]

Alpha Centauri was the only Civ inspired game I played to death, so I'm very much hyped up for this.

[Sheba]

I will likely choose the two first endings. Becoming one with Planet's Hivemind is not my idea of happy ending for humankind, especially not since I have seen the Evangelion movies.

Now, the second ending, I can imagine the hilarious mental scene of a hikimori chilling in post-disaster Akiba only to find himself hold at plasmagun point by former colonists in a "HELLO PEOPLE OF EARTH! WE HAVE COME IN PEACE!!!" way.

[Firefly00]

Definitely interested; I have fond memories of Civilization, and will be keeping an eye on this.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Now, the second ending, I can imagine the hilarious mental scene of a hikimori chilling in post-disaster Akiba only to find himself hold at plasmagun point by former colonists in a "HELLO PEOPLE OF EARTH! WE HAVE COME IN PEACE!!!" way.

Coincidentally enough, barring the players' actions in the Killzone games (including the Dirty Pair Event that ends 3), this is kind of what the Helghast were going to do...

[Flying Dagger]

I am excited but at the same time also had some pretty bad experiences with Civ5 (and other 4x games).

Some of my concerns:
- Difficulty settings:
High difficulty settings are just plain stupid. AIs get extra extra workers, an extra settler, and also extra hammers in every city. The same plays different on medium settings vs hard settings due to the unfair early game advantage. A certain early game wonder is part of your build? Good luck with that when the enemy AI will nab it many turns before you can.

There is a small joke I saw on reddit: "why doesn't the great library becomes just a regular library if someone else builds it before you do? Just because it was missing a few bricks here and there doesn't make it less great."

High difficulties also forces you to play a certain way, such as double expanding early or else all the sweet spots would have been taken by nearby AIs.

A gradual increase in AI bonus base on time which takes other factors into account would make the game feel smoother. (ie: The AIs with lower scores would receive higher bonus)


- End game is boring
Seriously, there is a point every game where I feel I have caught up with the AIs, and every turn after that I am just getting more and more powerful.

- Diplomacy (and its AI) suck
The AIs still make horrible diplomatic decisions. War monger penalty (even after the patch in BNW) is still quite severe. People will still remember how your ancestors took over another empire at 500BC... 1000 years later.

I once suggested that war monger penalties need a major overhaul - a system where relationships decay faster, and also significantly lowered penalties in early game aggressiveness (ie: why would this far away nation care about my war with my neighbor before anyone has researched some sort of media-tech such as printing press?)

There are many other aspects I did not like about Civ5 diplomacy, such as your allies never really "help" you defend your lands. I seriously hope the new game will have much better AIs.

Also, I once had a game where this Zulu AI rushed me for 30+ turns. He would refuse to stop even when I have got gatling guns out... what an annoyance.

I personally believe the stale end-game can be fixed with a much more refined diplomacy system. Allow shared victories, or major world events such as world war between alliances to break out via scripted events.

- Science is imba
2 powerhouse races, Korea and Babylon, share something in common: accelerated science. Science and research is almost... too important, too powerful.

I would like to see a parallel research system where you can select one military tech and one civil tech to be researched at the same time.

- "Racial diversity"
Civ5 made this better, but still not good enough. I want to see more unique play styles, just a random unique unit now and then, a unique building, or 2 unique traits do not really set the different civs apart.

Imo every faction should have something unique about them every era: and also allow such uniqueness to change over time! Say, for example America can start off tribal-like with natives early on, with a bonus on livestock tiles, and eventually loses that and become a more industrial faction when it enters industrial era.

- Unfinished/unpolished ideas/long time bugs
Civ5 introduced religions in gods and kings, but imo, while it is an interesting concept, it just feels unfinished.

Especially on higher difficulties, religion is almost wasted time. You almost "need" desert folklore to make religion worth the effort - else it would just be wasted hammers spent into doing... something really minimal.

Oh, why do I need to download a mod so my planes do not take 5 minutes to finish bombing a target? It is such a simple (and mandatory) fix that I have no clue why it hasnt been rolled into the main game in day 1.

//
Rants aside....

Alpha Centauri (the old game) imo has a lot of brave concepts (ie: creating your own units).

I believe one of the things the devs have mentioned is how they seem to like how Civ5 have turned out - I really hope they don't just make Civ5-in-space, but instead spend a good deal of time on the drawing board and play test their game in order to solve some of the age-old problems in the series. I want to see a game that can break out of the mold that is Civ and embrace innovative ideas.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Alpha Centauri (the old game) imo has a lot of brave concepts (ie: creating your own units).

I believe one of the things the devs have mentioned is how they seem to like how Civ5 have turned out - I really hope they don't just make Civ5-in-space, but instead spend a good deal of time on the drawing board and play test their game in order to solve some of the age-old problems in the series. I want to see a game that can break out of the mold that is Civ and embrace innovative ideas.

Well...if you read the article, they did say this game is Alpha Centuari. The workshop is back, diversified faction and units based on philosophies, web based research instead of tree, etc.

The only thing I'm worrying about this game is the AI.

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

War monger penalty (even after the patch in BNW) is still quite severe. People will still remember how your ancestors took over another empire at 500BC... 1000 years later.

I once suggested that war monger penalties need a major overhaul - a system where relationships decay faster, and also significantly lowered penalties in early game aggressiveness (ie: why would this far away nation care about my war with my neighbor before anyone has researched some sort of media-tech such as printing press?)

What do you think of the Mongols? If the words 'cruel' and 'violent' come to mind, you're not the only one to make that connection, even though the Mongol civilization still exists (just not as an empire) and they aren't the warmongers they used to be. In the 14th century, before Europe had the printing press, Europeans wrote about the extremely violent and cruel Mongols, and they've gone into our history as such. Even though it's been well over 600 years, we still associate them with warmongering for historical reasons.

[LoweGear]

Oh, a new Civilization game. Given how 5 turned out, I may just wait for the inevitable expansions-

*reads title*

*BEYOND EARTH*

... alright, DAY ONE PURCHASE BABY!

[Flying Dagger]

Originally Posted by VDZ

What do you think of the Mongols? If the words 'cruel' and 'violent' come to mind, you're not the only one to make that connection, even though the Mongol civilization still exists (just not as an empire) and they aren't the warmongers they used to be. In the 14th century, before Europe had the printing press, Europeans wrote about the extremely violent and cruel Mongols, and they've gone into our history as such. Even though it's been well over 600 years, we still associate them with warmongering for historical reasons.

We remember but do not imply a penalty to modern day mongolia. At least I wouldn't meet a mongolian and think he is cruel just because someone from his country had a very successful conquest.

I also remember so many great conquerors in the past, Attila, Alexander, Caesar's campaign, Hannibal, the crusaders, Napolean, Hitler... etc. They were all great figures of the past which we remember. Warring "in the past" is kind of just "the way of life". Old enemies may become allies, and old allies become new enemies in just a matter of decades (think America-Middle East).

Then there is also global diplomatic penalties (although reduced with allies post patch) for capturing enemy cities. It doesn't even matter if you stopped hitler on his track...

From a gameplay perspective, waging an early war esp on higher difficulties is a gambit. You slow down your tech and put hammers towards enough units for conquest (and they each have upkeep). It is often very hard to justify early wars esp after you take the diplomatic penalties into account (trading luxuries is bread and butter to keeping up with harder AIs). The assyrian trait should just be made standard - they could have something like, unit experience gains contribute to research points.

Speaking of mongolia, the AI do not have much respect for alliances. Was in a game with Mongolia as an ally and Genghis Khan kept attacking my city-state allies. Yet another fault with the AI.

Side note:
Say, you want to be a nice guy and liberate India which got annihilated early. The returning player comes back at where they left off and basically just becomes a non-factor. When you have the internet up and running I am not sure if it is even remotely logical that you would liberate someone and they come back in stone age. Would be more reasonable for them to inherit their captor's or liberator's tech.

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Then there is also global diplomatic penalties (although reduced with allies post patch) for capturing enemy cities. It doesn't even matter if you stopped hitler on his track...

Stalin captured Berlin, stopping Hitler in his tracks. We held it against the Russians when they kept the German-controlled territories they conquered.

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Speaking of mongolia, the AI do not have much respect for alliances. Was in a game with Mongolia as an ally and Genghis Khan kept attacking my city-state allies. Yet another fault with the AI.

You have to pledge protection against the city-state, otherwise it's an indication you don't care. If he attacks despite that, then he'll incur a diplomatic penalty with you (unless you are okay with it) leading to a broken alliance.

[Westlo]

Damn, the amount of time I might put into this game lol..... I was going to get a ps4 this holiday season... but I'll spend way more time playing this, Warlords of Draenor, Ultra SFIV and Football Manager 2015 for sure...

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

As awesome as Space Mayans, Space Ottomans, or Space Mongols sound, I doubt they'll be in this game. Or who knows, maybe they'll decide "screw it" and put them in :heh:

Thanks for reminding me about a now-dead MMORPG project titled Imperator, whose premise was that the Roman Republic never fell; indeed, it made it out into the Big Black. One of the obstacles, though, was this bit of biological unpleasantness the Mayans left behind before they'd made the trip some time earlier... (reference)

That said, Firaxis has seen fit to share their PAX East presentation...

[Hooves]

I don't know... With how bad the AI was in Civ 5 and such, I'm worried when you expand it to something even bigger like space.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Hooves

I don't know... With how bad the AI was in Civ 5 and such, I'm worried when you expand it to something even bigger like space.

You are still on a planet, it is just an alien one that can change depending on the game random factors.

[Ithekro]

Planet jumping Civ would be interesting. Were you could link up with other players planets for trade or some such things.