Vivid Strike! - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[ramlaen]

That was satisfying.

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

If not, then they're in a coma...I mean, has anyone ever been killed by a main character in the series?
In StrikerS, the only dead I can remember are Regius, Due who killed him and Zest who killed Due...who then died after being slashed by Signum, but that was his intention as he was already living on borrowed time.

Magic can be set to non-lethal in Nanoha-verse, but she used raw force there. Still, I also doubt they were killed. It would have bin to big of a deal. Most probably they went for a couple of months in hospital.

[The Green One]

If you enact the law of the jungle at school, you lose the right to complain if your prey turns out to be a bigger predator than you and eats you.

[vic-vic]

Despite the all the sufferings she went through... I can't say I fully pity Rinne there. For she became a bully herself, and what worse she didn't even understand this. Her tormentors are one thing, but Rinne continue to went up her fury on the people like Lyra, Carrie and even Fuka.

The last was most jarring, since Fuka was her best friend and just make an attempt to understand Rinne's circumstances... and Rinne just lunged at her like that. Heck, Fuka was even forced to use Danku-ken to free herself (and unlike Carrie and Lyra she wasn't protceted bt a field that negate the actual harm).

[Akito Kinomoto]

There are scant few times a character can brutalize someone so badly and still feels like the one who's actually hurting the most. Goddamn this story is intense as fuck

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Despite the all the sufferings she went through... I can't say I fully pity Rinne there. For she became a bully herself, and what worse she didn't even understand this. Her tormentors are one thing, but Rinne continue to went up her fury on the people like Lyra, Carrie and even Fuka.

The last was most jarring, since Fuka was her best friend and just make an attempt to understand Rinne's circumstances... and Rinne just lunged at her like that. Heck, Fuka was even forced to use Danku-ken to free herself (and unlike Carrie and Lyra she wasn't protceted bt a field that negate the actual harm).

I said it last episode, and this episode makes it even more blatant: Rinne needs therapy. Her emotional state is a wounded mess that she can't deal with at all, and she's so terrified of it being hurt again that she's bunched it all up inside herself and surrounded it in ice so it can't even begin to heal. As soon as anything pokes through that ice, like Fuka did, it jabs into her raw wounds, and she lashes out wildly in pain, anger, and desperate self-defense to get whatever is hurting her away so that she can put her ice back up and be safe.

It's not her fault that she got into this state, but it's also not healthy at all. She needs help getting out of it, but right now she's not going to admit, or even really recognize, that she needs that help.

[FlareKnight]

No doubt that girl needs someone to step in. Learning all this might put all the more pressure on Fuka. Certainly it is possible for Vivio to score another win or Einhart to win. But besides the MC factor it feels like the only person who might get her to open up after a fight is Fuka. Someone who was with her before it all went to hell and someone who will be there now.

I don't feel for those bullies at all. They more than crossed the line. Their actions were only a degree below what Rinne ended up doing to them. They beat her unconscious and she gave that right back to them with extreme prejudice. But, the bigger issue is that Rinne only further spiraled out of control and it isn't getting better.

Normally one would point towards counseling but we're clearly not going there . This franchise has shown there is only one way to resolve this....Fuka knocking her out! Worked with Fate and she definitely had it even worse than this.

I'm left curious about Jill's role in how things went to this point. Did she only make it worse or simply turn a blind eye?

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I'm left curious about Jill's role in how things went to this point. Did she only make it worse or simply turn a blind eye?

Judging by the next episode's title, I think it'll be an episode centered on Fuuka getting her Device...or maybe half an episode.
So I think revealing the extent of Jill's influence on Rinne may be put on hold for now

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Despite the all the sufferings she went through... I can't say I fully pity Rinne there. For she became a bully herself

Those girls were bullies because they were a bunch of jerks. Rinne's current behavior, on the other hand, is the result of an emotional trauma. You can't compare.

[Auxilism]

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Rinne's motivated me to come back for a bit.

[Rising Dragon]

I dunno why you guys think this is all shocking. You seem to have forgotten that the MGLN roots included a 9 year old/4 year old girl getting beaten bloody with a whip.

[novalysis]

Because I think most of us were expecting another Vivid, where everyone lives relatively fluffy lifes of relatively mundane, gentle concerns of a relatively healthy childhood.Until now, we didn't know whether the writers would return to the same seriousness of material such as Fate's abuse at the hands of Precia; that made Nanoha famous as a unique magical girl franchise.

On hindsight, given that episode 1 involves Fuuka getting into a gang fight and having a metal pipe smashed onto her head, what Rinne did to those bullies should not come as a surprise.

[chaos_animagic]

When she revenges at the end, I went "AWWW YEAAAAAA"

Bullies should all be killed, it's awesome. Fuck those Bullies. WOOT! You go girl, kill them all for the greater good.

Also, Rinne's current condition... isn't actual bully at all, she's in a frikin Battle Sport... how the hell's that bullying? You literally beat people up in there for the sport...

If you're talking about how she rejects her Best Friend... it's understandable, hell, her Best Friend haven't been in touch for how many years? where was she when she was going through this? no where.
Most if anything, in RL, people that doesn't get in touch for more than 5 years counts as no longer Friends.

Do you still call someone you met in Kindergarden but haven't kept in touch for like 10+ years and met up at 10 years later your Best Friend?... no...


From my POV, Rinne is too nice and trusting, it's how she ends up like this. If Rinne had suspected them or fight back, none of this would have happened because they'll be to scared to bully on Rinne. Even now, Rinne is still too nice, she only keeps her actual fighting in the Ring, and she let Fuka off easy, if she was a bully like you think she is... Rinne would have kept on beating up Fuka instead of saying she's not her Friend anymore and ignore her. (just like those girls was saw in ep 4 who didn't stop hating on Rinne)

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Because I think most of us were expecting another Vivid, where everyone lives relatively fluffy lives and happiness and companionship is there if you just talk to someone. Until now, we didn't know whether the writers would return to the same seriousness of Material such as Fate's abuse at the hands of Precia that made Nanoha famous.

Spoiler for Response:

ViVid also revealed the usage of chemical weapons that poisoned arable land and water, had a girl who suffered major organ damage upon birth in such a manner that caused people to think she took her mother's life in the process, had the same girl get her arms blown off, and walked to her death willingly, knowing her last few years would be spent as a machine's puppet with no will of her own. Later on down the line we get a girl who has a major identity crisis and pushes herself to an emotional breaking point. That same girl nearly loses her life in a tournament match to a spell whose power is known to overload all safety measures put into play.

ViVid was just as dark as the rest of the franchise. Those who thought otherwise weren't paying attention.

[Endscape]

Wow, that ending was so savage. Rinne really had it tough. She really couldn't do a single thing that she promised. No wonder she changed so much.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I don't feel for those bullies at all. They more than crossed the line. Their actions were only a degree below what Rinne ended up doing to them. They beat her unconscious and she gave that right back to them with extreme prejudice.

Amen to that.

I'm left curious about Jill's role in how things went to this point. Did she only make it worse or simply turn a blind eye?

Seems to me that she's encouraging Rinne's behaviour as a means of getting her to win.

Originally Posted by chaos_animagic

Also, Rinne's current condition... isn't actual bully at all, she's in a frikin Battle Sport... how the hell's that bullying? You literally beat people up in there for the sport...

Her actions with her opponent at least show she's not moving down a good path.

If you're talking about how she rejects her Best Friend... it's understandable,

I can certainly understand why she's get angry at Fuuka for calling her a bully, especially after this episode, but the way she puts Fuuka on a pedestal and refuses to talk with her at all i really isn't healthy.

hell, her Best Friend haven't been in touch for how many years? where was she when she was going through this? no where.

With Fuuka's situation, it's not surprising if they can't meet often.

Do you still call someone you met in Kindergarden but haven't kept in touch for like 10+ years and met up at 10 years later your Best Friend?... no...

Their relationship isn't as shallow as that.

[Nvis]

If a little girl could crush a phone with her foot (I sure hell couldn't), then that was an adequate beat down.

I guess Rinne does have some talent, then.

[novalysis]

I have a crack theory: Carrie, the poor "number 8" beaten during the third episode by Rinne was one of those bullies. We don't recognize her because of the changed hairstyle and possibly the loss of the glasses. But when Rinne was spitefully putting down Carrie once she destroyed her that episode.....

It's just a wild theory I am throwing out there.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by chaos_animagic

If you're talking about how she rejects her Best Friend... it's understandable, hell, her Best Friend haven't been in touch for how many years? where was she when she was going through this? no where.
Most if anything, in RL, people that doesn't get in touch for more than 5 years counts as no longer Friends.

Do you still call someone you met in Kindergarden but haven't kept in touch for like 10+ years and met up at 10 years later your Best Friend?... no...

Given the various dialogue Fuka had about Rinne, and with Rinne, they kept in touch even after she was adopted. It's not like Fuka just never saw her again until the one day they had the fight: she referred to them having other conversations, and asks why Rinne didn't tell her that she was having trouble, because she'd told her before not to cry alone when she was struggling.

Fuka didn't abandon Rinne. She was at the orphanage, and likely only had what information Rinne herself gave her. She didn't know Rinne was having trouble, because Rinne didn't tell her. She noticed a change in Rinne's personality, and was concerned and tried to find out what was wrong, but Rinne didn't answer, because she believed nothing would change even if she told Fuka. And when things got so bad that Fuka pulled her aside and told her that what she was doing was actually wrong, that she was becoming someone cruel just like the people who'd been cruel to them, things escalated into a fight.

This isn't a "where was Fuka." She was as close as she could be, given that they were living different lives, going to different schools, inhabiting different social spheres. She couldn't be with Rinne through this trouble, because the two of them were effecgively living in different worlds.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I have a crack theory: Carrie, the poor "number 8" beaten during the third episode by Rinne was one of those bullies. We don't recognize her because of the changed hairstyle and possibly the loss of the glasses. But when Rinne was spitefully putting down Carrie once she destroyed her that episode.....

It's just a wild theory I am throwing out there.

Very wild, they both don't even have the same eye color....

[arkhangelsk]

Having made Rinne a bit of a meanie the last episode, the show realizes they need to do something to bring her name back up, and we get this. A rather well-worn path, but well-executed. At least this show understands proportionality and the need for its audience to get cartharsis - that crack was music in the ears.

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

From what I understand, Rinne was bullied for at least two months, with harrasment, destruction of her things (shoes, uniform, books, etc...), as well as school property (the desk). Even if they didn't bully her every day, it's implied that it was being done on a regular basis.

I think they are also putting in a bit of social commentary here. A policy of inaction towards bullies is a common phenomena in Japan.

Well, at least Rinne could actually do something in this scenario, which makes her a lot luckier than many. A significant number of victims wind up breaking themselves rather than the bullies.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

BTW, it's fairly clear that murdering them is exactly what she did. You don't get cranial damage and blood-splatter like that from non-fatal injuries. Especially that final stomp on the first girl's head. Which leaves me baffled as to how her parents still believe her "nice little girl" act, like we saw both last episode and this one. This isn't exactly something they could avoid finding out about. Bullying, yeah, if they're negligent they could miss it. Even a minor fight where Rinne teaches the bullies to leave her alone could slip past, depending on circumstances. But even if the show somehow decides to say that those three lived through having their skulls smashed in, this kind of brutality is not something a parent could avoid hearing about.

I agree with those that figure the injuries are serious but not quite fatal - the shoe cabinets were clearly softer than the skulls and took the brunt of the deformation. She needs therapy, but god did our bullies deserve it.

I'll also point out that those bullies probably are relatively strong & tough in the class themselves, or at least have such a reputation. By the time she started being bullied, Rinne had already gotten somewhat popular. If those bullies aren't strong, seeing they were only three people, it's quite possible they'll be opposed and stopped after their first move.

Ironically, the same forces that prevented early intervention against the three bullies (and I laughed at how their first appearance perfectly introduced them as such) will now turn to Rinne's aid and prevent serious consequences.

Originally Posted by novalysis

I have a crack theory: Carrie, the poor "number 8" beaten during the third episode by Rinne was one of those bullies. We don't recognize her because of the changed hairstyle and possibly the loss of the glasses. But when Rinne was spitefully putting down Carrie once she destroyed her that episode.....

It's just a wild theory I am throwing out there.

Those three bullies will have to really remodel themselves to become Carrie, and given Rinne's instability, she would have "broken" Carrie if she even suspected Carrie to be one of the three bullies.

It is possible, however, that part of her rather harsh verbal response is motivated by Carrie looking way too much like a "have" like either those bullies or the myriad classmates that didn't do much to help her. When she looked like she was enjoying fighting and being adored, it struck one of Rinne's nerves. A part of Rinne knows that Carrie's not guilty, so Rinne held back from toying with her like her coach suggested, but another part wasn't as rational.