Jaku-Chara Tomozaki-kun

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I have to disagree. First off, I don't think it necessary to go dissing isekai. It's not as common as you suggest for the hero to be a NEET, especially a really maladjusted one, and there's a definite place for such wish fulfillment. And MT is better than you think. I've read a fair distance and there's a lot of character growth and development, and tons of drama and struggle. True, he remains somewhat of a pervert but otherwise he changes himself a lot.

As for this show, the problem is the presentation. I agree that the tips are valuable. But the story seems to consistently present a very inaccurate and borderline offensive impression on the outcasts, the shut-ins and such. Again, it presents it as if a person's failure to be part of the group is because they didn't try or didn't try hard enough. In a very large portion of the otakus and geeks who try to avoid socializing, I'm pretty sure that's at least 80% BS. People aren't that likely to shut others out this way simply because they're too lazy to try. They do it because they've tried and their efforts have been rewarded with enough pain and hardship to make them reject the idea, or because the struggle to keep up is always a losing battle. If you want to give tips on how to present oneself to have better chances with relations, that's fine. Even being a little insulting, telling the audience off for failing to do things that will improve others' impression of them. But going so far as to act like it's that simple, like the audience is entirely at fault for their failure to excel at this "god-tier game" takes it too far.

Not to mention that it really presents a thoroughly unappealing heroine whose entire behavior and attitude is an act designed to make people like her. She comes across as kind of shallow, superficial, and that's not the kind of person I'd want to take life advice from. Again a reason I'd have preferred OtaRia. It's nothing special, but at least in that story the heroine is more open and honest, actually acts like herself rather than pretending to "win the game". And while she gets on the hero's case, she doesn't present it as him being an unmotivated quitter or anything. She just tells him where he's screwing up, and breaks his illusions about normies just being naturally hotter and better. This is a simple difference in presentation, but I think it's big. Emphasize the capacity for growth, don't denounce a perceived lack of effort.

i think this is a matter of "culture" for what i saw in many "studies" (videos and news about culture), about japanese culture this is how in general japan is, having a sort of 2 faces is common, they have a name for that which i forgot now, but is pretty common for japaneses "fake" they personality outside to keep who they "true are" inside"or only to "close peoples like family, you are normally expectated to "behave in a specific way" most of the times, for exemple girls normally, must be "cute" and feminine, be "formal" for strangers, this is the reason we have the famous case of logan paul, where the "american" douchbag guy goes to japan and started to be a full ass***, bullying peoples, scrambling stuffs from markets, because he saw they not "reacting" and letting him do whatever he wants without any consequences (ofcourse in the end he was screwed because he lost his contract with disney and a lot of stuffs), because japaneses are "too polite" no matter how they hated what he was doing, they didn't react because it's they current culture, then what she told to him, while probably don't work for "outside japan" it again somewhat can work inside most of the times, i saw some material about "bulling in japan and hikikomori and neet, and many of then somewhat really looks like the mc in behavious, the big issue in the end still the "bully" issue in japan which still strong.

but what she told while somehow can be a exagerated by being a "manga" still somewhat valid because of they culture.


Also don't forget japan is the country of "hard work", if you fail is because you really don't worked hard enough, it's not just anime, but it is really a strong mindset of japaneses in general.

[Greenish Growth]

That character artwork in the first post looks the same as When I Helped an S-class Beautiful Girl.

Is it the same artist?

[AC-Phoenix]

How is it the black/blue haired girl basically Screams "Mion" at my face?

Also I don't see the difference between her without makeup and with makeup...

E: As for the tasks... UHm what the hell?

If she had given me those tasks I'd leave the room with " Well I said good morning to my sister, today and she goes to this school, so that's one. 2nd I just had a lengthy conversation with you, so only one left." We also all know who the girlfriend will be

[SolidN7]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

i think this is a matter of "culture" for what i saw in many "studies" (videos and news about culture), about japanese culture this is how in general japan is, having a sort of 2 faces is common, they have a name for that which i forgot now, but is pretty common for japaneses "fake" they personality outside to keep who they "true are" inside"or only to "close peoples like family, you are normally expectated to "behave in a specific way" most of the times, for exemple girls normally, must be "cute" and feminine, be "formal" for strangers, this is the reason we have the famous case of logan paul, where the "american" douchbag guy goes to japan and started to be a full ass***, bullying peoples, scrambling stuffs from markets, because he saw they not "reacting" and letting him do whatever he wants without any consequences (ofcourse in the end he was screwed because he lost his contract with disney and a lot of stuffs), because japaneses are "too polite" no matter how they hated what he was doing, they didn't react because it's they current culture, then what she told to him, while probably don't work for "outside japan" it again somewhat can work inside most of the times, i saw some material about "bulling in japan and hikikomori and neet, and many of then somewhat really looks like the mc in behavious, the big issue in the end still the "bully" issue in japan which still strong.

but what she told while somehow can be a exagerated by being a "manga" still somewhat valid because of they culture.


Also don't forget japan is the country of "hard work", if you fail is because you really don't worked hard enough, it's not just anime, but it is really a strong mindset of japaneses in general.

True, but Tomozaki is not bottom tier that's the problem, the author tries to sell this guy like complet shit and that not true, the same happen with hachiman.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

i think this is a matter of "culture" for what i saw in many "studies" (videos and news about culture), about japanese culture this is how in general japan is, having a sort of 2 faces is common, they have a name for that which i forgot now, but is pretty common for japaneses "fake" they personality outside to keep who they "true are" inside"or only to "close peoples like family, you are normally expectated to "behave in a specific way" most of the times, for exemple girls normally, must be "cute" and feminine, be "formal" for strangers, this is the reason we have the famous case of logan paul, where the "american" douchbag guy goes to japan and started to be a full ass***, bullying peoples, scrambling stuffs from markets, because he saw they not "reacting" and letting him do whatever he wants without any consequences (ofcourse in the end he was screwed because he lost his contract with disney and a lot of stuffs), because japaneses are "too polite" no matter how they hated what he was doing, they didn't react because it's they current culture, then what she told to him, while probably don't work for "outside japan" it again somewhat can work inside most of the times, i saw some material about "bulling in japan and hikikomori and neet, and many of then somewhat really looks like the mc in behavious, the big issue in the end still the "bully" issue in japan which still strong.

but what she told while somehow can be a exagerated by being a "manga" still somewhat valid because of they culture.


Also don't forget japan is the country of "hard work", if you fail is because you really don't worked hard enough, it's not just anime, but it is really a strong mindset of japaneses in general.

Oh I know about tatemae and all that. But this is above and beyond with her. The guy knows about this stuff too for sure, it's part of his culture after all, and it shocks him just how completely different she becomes when she determines that she's not going to lose popularity points with anyone that she thinks matters. There's maintaining a polite facade, and then there's being a completely different person.

And that idea that you failed because you didn't try hard enough is a thing here too. I just hate the idea on principle. Especially when it's presented like this, with someone who legitimately looks in every way like someone who would be awesome if he tried. It's bad enough to try and tell me that the countless shut-ins out there reject the outside world because they're too lazy to put in the effort to make friends, but if you want to pull that sort of message at least give me someone who really needs to work. Set this show up with a guy who's on the chunky side and has never been able to really slim down, or someone with a legitimately ugly face. If you want me to believe that the unpopular just need to try harder then show me someone with truly bad stats fight his way to the top.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by SolidN7

True, but Tomozaki is not bottom tier that's the problem, the author tries to sell this guy like complet shit and that not true, the same happen with hachiman.

yeah i hate tha too which some authors like to make some "handsome or at last not ugly main characters have a complex about being "ugly" when they are not even close to be "ugly", a lot of series have it, specially in harems, most of the times is a ultra shy /dense/low confidence mc which despises looking good think which he is the "worst in the world just because the plot need that".

the overal idea was more to show which her "idea" is not wrong it have a bas because of they culture and the tatemae she as many others "main girls is showing to him how to "proper blend" in the society and how you are expectate to act if you want to "win the game of life".

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Oh I know about tatemae and all that. But this is above and beyond with her. The guy knows about this stuff too for sure, it's part of his culture after all, and it shocks him just how completely different she becomes when she determines that she's not going to lose popularity points with anyone that she thinks matters. There's maintaining a polite facade, and then there's being a completely different person.

And that idea that you failed because you didn't try hard enough is a thing here too. I just hate the idea on principle. Especially when it's presented like this, with someone who legitimately looks in every way like someone who would be awesome if he tried. It's bad enough to try and tell me that the countless shut-ins out there reject the outside world because they're too lazy to put in the effort to make friends, but if you want to pull that sort of message at least give me someone who really needs to work. Set this show up with a guy who's on the chunky side and has never been able to really slim down, or someone with a legitimately ugly face. If you want me to believe that the unpopular just need to try harder then show me someone with truly bad stats fight his way to the top.

well to be fair is something pretty common in anime to have a sort of "nadeshiko" or hime(princess) main girl, which is "perfect in everything in front of everyone but when alone or when only with her friends and the mc she act in a totally different way, being even a crazy perv.

while the mc "know about it" we saw which he still don't have enough confidence over it, he goes to the point which he don't believe on those stuffs and just things the world is crap an no matter what he will do nothing gonna change.

i think the idea here in the anime is not just because the mc is ugly but because he have really low confidence or none, he just decided which only the game world matter for him and is pointless try to stand up in real world.

Another problem is which still again in japan, things like "manga, games" and many others "otakus" stuffs while are really important for japan not only culture but for they market and commerce because currently is one of the most strong sales points in japan, but they still have a strong stigma over it, then if in the school you are open about "loving games" in the same way the life or let's say want to make "game your way of life" it still gonna be see as "bad" your classmates and schoolsmaters still have a high chance to "look down on you" even if you are a good look, because you have a "creep" taste" it also is strong on then, then it can be his case, his love for games could had be what make peoples see him as a "ugly" and make him become a loner, not just his look then with his low confidence he must had linked this to his look too and ended like that, accepting which no one would like him in that way then he stoped to care about it and become a mess like that.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Greenish Growth

That character artwork in the first post looks the same as When I Helped an S-class Beautiful Girl.

Is it the same artist?

It's the same artist who did the character designs for Iroduku .

[Greenish Growth]

Originally Posted by Frontier

It's the same artist who did the character designs for Iroduku .

Ah, thanks! With that information I was able to confirm that Fly did the artwork for both series:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/pro...oreType=ebooks

That's why that girl looked so familiar.

[ArrowSmith]

Talk about wish fulfillment. Of course the #1 girl in school who happens to look like a model picks our poor MC-kun for building up his life. As if!

Also where are MC-kun's parents? Why is needing life advice from a fellow teenager who looks to be utterly shallow? Parenting FAIL. Is this a commentary on how piss-poor Japanese parents have become that their kids need to lean on their equally ignorant peers to get the 'facts of life'?

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Oh I know about tatemae and all that. But this is above and beyond with her. The guy knows about this stuff too for sure, it's part of his culture after all, and it shocks him just how completely different she becomes when she determines that she's not going to lose popularity points with anyone that she thinks matters. There's maintaining a polite facade, and then there's being a completely different person.

And that idea that you failed because you didn't try hard enough is a thing here too. I just hate the idea on principle. Especially when it's presented like this, with someone who legitimately looks in every way like someone who would be awesome if he tried. It's bad enough to try and tell me that the countless shut-ins out there reject the outside world because they're too lazy to put in the effort to make friends, but if you want to pull that sort of message at least give me someone who really needs to work. Set this show up with a guy who's on the chunky side and has never been able to really slim down, or someone with a legitimately ugly face. If you want me to believe that the unpopular just need to try harder then show me someone with truly bad stats fight his way to the top.

Yeah I'm also getting serious anti-incel vibes from this show. As if all an ugly otaku needs to do is looksmax and he'll land the 5-star chick.

[bakato]

I think after Rent-A-Girl, we've all grown to loathe the premise of a "pretty, popular girl becomes MC's therapist."

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by bakato

I think after Rent-A-Girl, we've all grown to loathe the premise of a "pretty, popular girl becomes MC's therapist."

Y'know, I never thought to compare Hinami to Chizuru, but now I can see the similarities .

[BWTraveller]

I never even watched that one. Had a feeling the initial premise would give me some dark feelings from time to time, enough that I wouldn't want to keep going long enough for the good stuff.

And honestly I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with a popular, attractive girl helping out an unpopular and unattractive guy. It all depends on how it's presented. If it simply points out ways the guy needs to improve things or didn't know he could improve, it can come across well enough. If, on the other hand, it feels like an author-tract talking about how he and, in turn, the loser otakus that are watching are pathetic losers who never bothered to try, it suddenly becomes annoying and offensive. Especially when it insists that all "characters" are created ultimately equal like in the video game with no "bad hands", completely ignoring the possibility of a person actually having flaws beyond unwashed hair and dirty shoes. Again, I far prefer OtaRia in this regard. You have a lot of the same stuff, even a guy who would clean up plenty well, but the girl doesn't rip into him for not trying, his problems come more from lack of knowledge rather than effort, and she doesn't act like he should make a "character" to present to the world or personally present a false character just so she can "win" at life; heck, by the end she's trying to get the guy to just admit to his hobbies.

At the very least, Aoi and her advice is NOT going to be involved in any decision to keep going with this. For a guy like me, who was legitimately dealt a very bad hand, I kind of wish someone would just slap her. I've read a bit ahead in the manga, and I think some of the other characters are interesting and endearing enough to warrant a watch, but this initial presentation was not pleasant.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I never even watched that one. Had a feeling the initial premise would give me some dark feelings from time to time, enough that I wouldn't want to keep going long enough for the good stuff.

And honestly I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with a popular, attractive girl helping out an unpopular and unattractive guy. It all depends on how it's presented. If it simply points out ways the guy needs to improve things or didn't know he could improve, it can come across well enough. If, on the other hand, it feels like an author-tract talking about how he and, in turn, the loser otakus that are watching are pathetic losers who never bothered to try, it suddenly becomes annoying and offensive. Especially when it insists that all "characters" are created ultimately equal like in the video game with no "bad hands", completely ignoring the possibility of a person actually having flaws beyond unwashed hair and dirty shoes. Again, I far prefer OtaRia in this regard. You have a lot of the same stuff, even a guy who would clean up plenty well, but the girl doesn't rip into him for not trying, his problems come more from lack of knowledge rather than effort, and she doesn't act like he should make a "character" to present to the world or personally present a false character just so she can "win" at life; heck, by the end she's trying to get the guy to just admit to his hobbies.

At the very least, Aoi and her advice is NOT going to be involved in any decision to keep going with this. For a guy like me, who was legitimately dealt a very bad hand, I kind of wish someone would just slap her. I've read a bit ahead in the manga, and I think some of the other characters are interesting and endearing enough to warrant a watch, but this initial presentation was not pleasant.

Having read the novels, I feel like it's much more like the former than the latter.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Having read the novels, I feel like it's much more like the former than the latter.

I'm only talking from what I've seen so far and what I've read about it in various places. So far it sounds like the hero's being treated as a loser who didn't even try rather than someone who just didn't know about some things, or at the least as being a loser who could be top-tier if he just put in the effort. Not to mention that, while I understand presenting things in game terms so a gamer will understand, it still feels a little cold to view things as a matter of "winning the game".

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Having read the novels, I feel like it's much more like the former than the latter.

Does Aoi get deconstructed later? Something to drive home the fact that you can't win all the time in life and have to go sideways instead?

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Does Aoi get deconstructed later? Something to drive home the fact that you can't win all the time in life and have to go sideways instead?

Spoiler:

I will say that Hinami's perspective gets challenged. The story is as much about Tomozaki taking her advice as it is becoming his own man.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Does Aoi get deconstructed later? Something to drive home the fact that you can't win all the time in life and have to go sideways instead?

Spoiler:

The series does show that Aoi's viewpoint is not always correct and that the way she does things can create more problems than they solve. She's a bit like Hachiman in that, actually.

[EroKing]

Tomozaki doesn't seem half-bad at starting a conversation, just needed that little nudge from Aoi to make a little effort. He is picking up rather quickly how to just connect with different people.

Images

Aoi was pretty cute this week.

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Spoiler:

I will say that Hinami's perspective gets challenged. The story is as much about Tomozaki taking her advice as it is becoming his own man.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Spoiler:

The series does show that Aoi's viewpoint is not always correct and that the way she does things can create more problems than they solve. She's a bit like Hachiman in that, actually.

I see.....Anyway the second ep is quite fun so far

[Frontier]

Do girls look better with neckties or ribbons on their uniforms? Honestly I can't decide .

Tomozaki has to finally come out of his shell and did the seemingly impossible...talk to some cute girls. But all things considered, in his own way, he did a pretty solid job and despite how dorky and spazzy he can be, he can get into a conversation with the right person .

We meet more of the cast, including the seemingly normal girl Yuzu, the soft-spoken silver-haired Kikuchi, the bubbly and beaming Nanami aka Mimimi, and the the serious and outspoken Hanabi aka Tama. Cute girls all around, and I am eager to learn more about them along with Tomozaki .

Hinami hitting Nakamura where it hurts...getting dumped by his senpai and in Tackfam by Tomozaki. Although considering how bitter he is to Tomozaki just for beating him, I can't say he didn't deserve it .

Surprise yuri as Mimimi casually sexually harasses and feels up both Tama and Hinami, and almost practically kisses Hinami. And in school no less .

I am kind of amazed Hinami just went along with that butt talk and said that about herself, and didn't even seem to hold it against Tomozaki afterwards. That takes confidence .

And then Hinami casually pinches Tomozaki's butt during their etiquette training. For a guy I'm not sure if that's good or bad, although Hinami is pretty nonplussed about it .

So Hinami got her catchphrase from an old retro game she loved, which she and Tomozaki both kind of fanboy about. Hinami hides it well, but she's a total nerd .

Wow, Hinami has tons of conversation topics memorized just so she's never lost in a conversation. That's dedication .

Looks like Tomozaki has a date with Hinami to look forward to (not that I expect her to make it easy for him) .

The Ending is pretty cute with the stylized versions of the main cast and a nice song. It also ends with special note on Kikuchi and her book .