Clannad TV (first season) - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[Meatrose]

I always considered Clannad an unfinished project, but until KyoAni had officially announced the AS I didn't dare to rate it as such.

Had KyoAni done the unthinkable and ditched the AS I would've considered this to be their first failure. Don't get me wrong, they certainly did an amazing job adapting the SL part of Clannad, but the "failure" would have been to end it at this point. Luckily, they did what I assume all who played the game expected them to do.

So, now that I can finally rate this for what it is, all I can say is that I'm really satisfied. This adaptation was a brilliant piece of work in my opinion. They basically included whatever could be included from the five main routes. I was sad to see Kyou's arc get slaughtered, but I knew from the beginning that it would be impossible to include most of her arc without ruining the entire project. I really recommend all of you who fell in love with her character to play the game. It is really money well spent, and I think you can patch it so that you can play everything but the AS in English. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this, but as far as I know the AS has not yet been patched.)

Anyhow... as an adaptation of the SL part of Clannad, this was truly a work of art. The strength of Clannad, in my opinion, is the After Story and the characters. The characters have all been beautifully portrayed in the anime. Everything from visual character-directing to character-animations and the directing of the seiyuus is really top notch. As expected from this studio one might say, but it was nevertheless wonderful to watch the first few episodes and be amazed by the fact that "this really IS Clannad".

I never use an x/10 kind of system to rate shows and I'm not about to start. The only thing I do is to mark an extremely small minority as masterpieces (at the moment I've marked less than 1% of the titles I've seen as masterpieces). I can't rate Clannad as a masterpiece now, even though what has so far been adapted was done masterfully. I will most probably not rate this season and the AS individually. I'm going to treat them both as "the complete KyoAni-version of Clannad", and then we'll see what happens.

Everything that KyoAni has touched has more or less turned into gold, and now that the AS has been announced I dare to say that this will not be an exception. All I'll say at this point is this; given the quality of what we've seen so far, it really bodes well for the future.

[Tyabann]

In one, simple sentence: This is KyoAni's most well-done series ever.

It's not my favorite, but it was absolutely amazing and beautiful.

Win/10.

[Rhyel]

I agree 99% with Klashikari + Skyfall reviews, great words for both.

Reinforcing Skyfall, Clannad have a happy aura, the sad moments is too fast and erased at next funny moment. To me is a good point, I am a little tired of sad animes.

About Tomoyo arch, her past was told too fast, her words about family is very important to Tomoya, but it is not explored well.

Same with this small details, I give a 10/10, looking others recent Animes, Clannad is far much better than anyone, in all aspects.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I thought I'd start to give more of my reasons for my ratings now that there's little chance of anything going wrong (I regret saying that now for some reason).

Animation: 9 Being Kyoani everything they touch turns to gold, especially animation right?.....No? Well not exactly gold, but perhaps silver. As we're seeing more and more anime series with animation of the calibre that Kyoani showed with Haruhi in 2006, Kyoani's animation style is starting to appear a little less special to me. They like to use lots of orange and lense flares and make things like pretty with a very bright colour pallete, but I've seen better (perhaps that's not a good word, let's say equivalent instead) lately. One thing they are for sure though is consistant in design, though there are still some instances of lazy animation in the series and it just doesn't really push the limits of what I think animation can achieve like other series such as Macross Frontier and Gundam 00 (Hi Def version), which equal or surpass it from time to time. Kyoani was leading the way in animation for a while, but now I think they are just top calibre among a couple other torch bearers. I also have got say I didn't really care much for the character design. It just feels to much like I could be watching Haruhi or Kanon with the usual spread eyes small nose look. Does that mean it's weak, heck no it's still among the best, just not perfect. A 9/10.

Characters: 8 There were those I liked a lot, those I felt were okay, and one I wished just didn't exist and groaned everytime he came on screen.

My favourite was actually Kotomi, delicious Kotomi acid trip like fantasies based around her and a her potential deadly final boss status with her violin of doom. Along with being the character I found myself most attracted too (I noticed one thing actually in many scenes when she appeared and that's that she seems to have a rather large bust for a character of her build) I also felt she had the strongest character arc with her finale being my favourite episode of the series. Some parts of her arc felt a bit overwrought, but nonetheless time with her onscreen was good fun.

Fuko was a mixed bag for me. Early on she kind of didn't seem to go anywhere and was just this ditzy lolish girl that handed out starfish to people. Later it became apparent what was going on and her arc ended strong with her fulfilling her wish. I wasn't bothered by her later appearances much as others seemed to be as I saw her as more of symbol at that point of the personification of familial bonding and friendship. Still she never really grew on me even then.

Tomoyo was a character I liked too actually. For somebody who is supposed to be a delinquent she never felt to over the top at any point and I even argue seemed like a voice of reason a lot of the time in conversations. The kick counter joke centering around her was kind of eeeeeehhhhhh....yeah I don't know, I'll be honest, the humour in this series didn't work much for me. Still she's right up their among my faves and I kind of wish their were more anime females like her.

Nagisa is just awesome to me. Throughout the series despite having the Key Virus she always seemed to exude a quite strength and her mutually supportive relationship with Tomoya just felt so right to the point that I am really confused that some people felt that Tomoya should end up with Tomoyo (on that note, did Tomino pop in and name these two? Their names are so similar that I swear I must have mixed up their names a couple of times along the way) or Kyou. Not that this series ever came across as being about though. It wasn't a competition, it was an exhibition of life, the good kind. Nagisa is the embodiment of the kind of female character I'd like to see more in anime.

Kyou along with her sister Ryou (Whenever their names would be said within even a few sentences of each other I'd immediately think of King of Fighters) was a character who's popularity I just couldn't brash. She just came across as overly obnoxious and loud to be perfectly honest and never appealed to me in any regard. She was also part of a frequent comedy routine that was lost on me in her attempts to torture Youhei and perhaps if this series had been straight comedy it may have worked for me, but the series tried to balance comedy and drama in a way that just did not work for me most of the time. I did like her boar however (it also reminded me of the first boss you fight in Tales of Phantasia).

Tomoya was a decent male lead, never too over the top and usually reacted to situations in what I felt was an appropriate manner. I certainly like him more most out of any Kyoani male lead as for once we aren't dealing with a Sugita Tomokazu character that screams his head of at the most innappropriate of times and yet it's deemed acceptable by all the other characters. No Tomoya forges a relationship of equal respect and support with Nagisa that as I said before feels so right. Dare I say he's somewhat Gar (his VA is the one for Graham Acre after all so no surprise)

Sunohara alas I wish did not exist. His antics had me grinding my teeth everytime he was on the screen and for me made a lot of moments a write off. I'm still not sure he was really needed in this series even if he did prove instrumental in regard to Nagisa's arc. Tomoya could have probably handled all the roles Sunohara was given with ease and I would have been saved the annoyance of having to see him....ever.

And that's all the major characters I want to talk about. Overall I gave Kotomi a 10, Fuko a 6, Nagisa a 10, Kyou a 5, Tomoyo a 9, Tomoya a 10 and Sunohara a 4 for a rounded up total of 8 overall for the critical characters.

Music: 6 Not all that memorable to me, not like the Kanon ending theme, which is probably my favourite song featured in a Kyoani series ever. The opening and ending were kind of average to me (then again they aren't really my taste so that can't be helped and it isn't the fault of producers). I really just can't remember any of it really. It's not something I seek to own, but nothing I can recall that was in the BGM every really annoyed me. It was just....well average. So a 6 it is.

Plotting: 7 Well certainly better than like 90% of VN adaptations that's for sure. After viewing and dropping so many bland and boring VN adaptations I did not expect to find a series I could make it through, but here we are. Still I don't feel it's godly perfect or anything. Early arcs were clearly too long and characters like Fuko got way to much spotlight while I felt more time could have been placed on making Kyou a more likeable character for example or even giving minor characters like Mei a bit more time to shine. Also the ending episode was just kind of average and considering the last series by Kyoani ended with a stage production too I couldn't help but have the feeling of a rushed/rehashed ending even if that was how it was supposed to go in the original game. Could they not have picked any other point at which to end it that didn't remind me of Lucky Star? Well anyway, the pacing was good, but not great. I must admit I'm more used to seeing 50 episode series so this was a bit of a tough sell for me. I came away pretty satisfied with this adaptation and wonder if maybe Kyoani might want to try there hands at doing a good rendition of Prism Ark after this is all over. It got a 7 overall from me.

And there people have it. Tallied up the series average out to a 7.5 overall for me and coin toss yadayadayada. I hope people don't think I've been to hard on the series. I have a reputation for being hard on Kyoani shows, but I felt I gave this one all the chance I could and I really tried to like it and honestly to my genuine surprise did.

I don't really care what Kyoani does next, but can I just ask that peace be with people and we don't end up fighting or getting angry with one another if say Haruhi doesn't come out within a season and that we be respectful of our fellow anime fans regardless of what is coming down the line. We aren't here to compete and rank the importance of our favourite shows against those of others and say this is better and more important to pay attention to at the moment, but to be a shared community of people from different walks of life. So like I said when Lucky Star ended, let's not dwell on what has been or what has come to be, but move on down the line and see what the future brings us.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Originally Posted by Maxtro

A show would cheat on it's viewers if it wasn't predictable? I don't agree with you there. Would it have been that bad if Tomoya ended up with Kyou? It would have been unpredictable and it still could have worked out.

Unless I misunderstood there were several parts where the girls were wondering "who will be the winner." I find it annoying that the audience is teased with the possibilities of different pairings but it's always the obvious one.

Call me crazy but I would have liked something wacky to happen. Like when Tomoya was confessing to Nagisa, she rejects him and tell him that she likes Sunohara. There could be a funny "Shock" scene and it would lighten the mood of the episode.

Thats the kind of unpredictability I would have liked to seen and with the shows humor it could pull it off.

Heh ok I'll call you crazy (no offense). To me it WOULD have been really bad if Tomoya suddenly randomly had to hots for Kyou or some other girl, it would have been unpredicatable and NOT have worked out.

A twist like that is on the scale of say, a nuke coming out of nowhere and destorying the city killing everyone. It just doesn't work. I don't know if you're a Kyou fan or what, I like Kyou but the WHOLE SHOW (in every arc) had Nagisa x Tomoya developing. Not only where they perfect for each other with great chemistry, but considering the After Story it was impossible for me to think of Tomoya getting with any other girl (I'd have liked the awesome Tomoyo with Tomoya considering Tomoyo After but oh well).

Like many people have said before Clannad isn't about the harem or who the guy picks. You might have been fooled into thinking there where chances of a diffrent possibility but he NEVER thought of any of the other girls that way or showed feelings for them. That was already predetermined. If something like Nagisa rejecting Tomoya happend it would be out of character and defeat the purpose of all that development. Besides Kyou's route really sucks (in my opinion) and she could find a person more suited to her than Tomoya. (Like how Ryou gets it going on with Kappei)

Being unpredicatable can be nice at times but there's a line between unpredicatable and stupid/random that can ruin shows.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Nagisa is just awesome to me. Throughout the series despite having the Key Virus she always seemed to exude a quite strength and her mutually supportive relationship with Tomoya just felt so right to the point that I am really confused that some people felt that Tomoya should end up with Tomoyo (on that note, did Tomino pop in and name these two? Their names are so similar that I swear I must have mixed up their names a couple of times along the way) or Kyou. Not that this series ever came across as being about though. It wasn't a competition, it was an exhibition of life, the good kind. Nagisa is the embodiment of the kind of female character I'd like to see more in anime.

Yes I totally agree with you!!! I am also wondering why some people are thinking LOL KYOU X TOMOYA PLZ, but in the end it's just fanboys who want more Kyou screen time and don't care to see how awesome Nagisa x Tomoya is. Even in the game I thought Kyou x Tomoya had bad chemistry. Although I think Tomoyo x Tomoya and work out, they where a nice pair in Tomoyo's route, not as good as Nagisa x Tomoya but pretty close.

Tales of Phantasia's boar boss is sad, you are forced to kill the babies too!!

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by RandomFlameStrike

Tales of Phantasia's boar boss is sad, you are forced to kill the babies too!!

No you're not. If you just wait a bit they'll run away.

They do drop Furs, though, which are worth quite a bit at that time, so I tend to kill them anyway.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

No you're not. If you just wait a bit they'll run away.

They do drop Furs, though, which are worth quite a bit at that time, so I tend to kill them anyway.

Oh crap! I just assumed you had to kill them and slaughtered them everytime, was it for no reason!? Oops.

[Sorrow-K]

I gave it "Good". 7/10. My review. And this isn't on what unfortunately appears to be the popular rating scale where "good" means "tolerable" or "watchable, but not terribly worthy of praise". "Good" means "good" and there's no two ways about it. For me to give something 7/10, it has to be good.

Clannad is a strange anime, in that it has flaws, but their all minor and relatively easy to forgive. The character and relationship development was the best thing about this anime. It followed a path that wasn't dissimilar to Nodame Cantabile, in that it's two lead characters complemented each other so well, that they both grew so much just from being with one another. Obviously, Chiaki and Nodame characters are completely different from Tomoya and Nagisa (I find it funny when someone here mentioned how much they relate to Tomoya, because I find the same thing myself for Chiaki), but there are certain parallels with the progression of their respective character developments. It's a formula that I highly approve of. I love this message that we can become better people because of the people we exist with, and that one can find meaning in life in another person.

The themes in this anime were beautifully explored, and were almost always at the forefront of the series. Throughout the series, there were these numerous examples of people working for the sake of others. Fuko, for her sister; Tomoya, for Kotomi; Sunohara, for Tomoya and Nagisa; Kyou, for Ryou; Tomoyo, for her brother and the cherry blossom trees; and, of course, the big one, Tomoya, for Nagisa. The family relationships were beautifully done as well. There was this message with regards to family, that it defines the people we are. It was an even-handed message, it was just as quick to point out that sometimes family can cause us pain, but the overriding one was that we grow and experience joy because of family. Tomoya was the most obvious example of this: his growth is just as much because of Nagisa's family as it was because of Nagisa. Clannad was a very enjoyable anime because it was rather uplifting. It never tried to be heavy in the same way Kanon did, but it worked well for what it was trying to do.

I loved Fuko's arc. Just loved it. There was a simplicity to it, because it was just a case of triumph due to endeavor, but the simplicity of it is what made it work, IMO. I initially found her somewhat annoying, but I slowly found myself admiring her dedication. How do I put it... I just found it such a lovely story. Kotomi's arc... no, I didn't really like it at the end. It started off as very entertaining (Kotomi is so moe, it hurts), but I didn't find it as easy to sympathize with her as I did Fuko, and the ending, as spectacular as it was, rather defied suspension of disbelief.

There's been a lot of talk of the melding of arcs in the late-middle episodes. It gave the story flow (well, at least it should have, and I really didn't think it did), but here's where I think that whole section broke down: it lacked focus. One minute it was problems with the Theater Club, the next minute it was Sunohara Mei-time, the next minute, we're having a basketball game (a scene which was all about Okazaki, and had absolutely nothing meaningful to say about the Sunohara siblings, which that arc had previously suggested it would), and then the next minute we're playing "let's pretend Clannad is a slice-of-life harem series". Actually, backtracking for just a sec, nothing meaningful was said of the Sunohara siblings at all. Oh well.

On the "let's pretend Clannad is a slice-of-life harem series" section (which is eps 17-18 in my book), at the time I actually quite enjoyed those eps, because there was some highly entertaining moments (Kyou, trapped in the storeroom... oh Kyou) and some rather poignant ones (Tomoyo's story), but looking back on it, there was a real staccato pacing throughout that section, and one could make the argument that a lot of the events that took place were a distraction from the larger story. The Fujibayashi BAAW scene was the big one for me. I'm a big believer that characters need clear motivations and reasons behind their actions, but the reasons for the Fujibayashi twins crying weren't explained well enough, and were overly ambiguous, I thought. It didn't come out of enough, and lead to very little as well, since neither Kyou nor Ryou received any spotlight after that scene was over. I think they missed a big opportunity by not fleshing this sequence out. There's nothing in the plot that needed to change, but background for those two characters would have been invaluable.

I loved Nagisa's arc. It wasn't as good as Fuko's arc, but there was so much meaning to it. Again, there was a simplicity to the whole thing, but it relished in its simplicity by allowing itself to be theme-driven primarily, and character/relationship-driven secondarily. There was character development, and there was an uplifting message behind it all, and it was all so momentous without being heavy-handed. The final episode was a fitting finale, and I still don't understand just what people were so unsatisfied with after it was all over. Like I've said plenty of times, I welcome the second season now that we know its coming, but I'd have hardly been belligerent towards KyoAni if it never happened, because, other than the Illusionary World, everything of importance had been at least acknowledged, and, at best, tied up. Nagisa had overcome her problems, and realized that she was entitled to chase her dreams, Tomoya's father issues had been addressed, with the series realizing that they didn't need to be so heavy-handed as to "resolve" what is essentially unresolvable (at this stage), and Nagisa and Tomoya are together. That's what I'd call a good ending.

On the technical side of things, I think I've already said about all I needed to say in my review. I didn't mention anything about the seiyuu cast, so I'll say something now. In short, I wouldn't say this is a super ensemble performance, but there was nothing bad in it. I wouldn't say this was anywhere near Kuwashima Houko (Tomoyo) or Noto Mamiko's (Kotomi) best performance, and even Nakahara Mai (Nagisa) wasn't alway on-song. I thought Hirohashi Ryou (Kyou) just nailed her character, though. She was the pick of the female seiyuu, for me. The male seiyuu were almost universally great, though. Okiayu Ryotaro's (Akio) stirring speech in the final episode made me regret not nominating him among the Best Supporting roles in the Seiyuu Awards thread, while Daisuke Sakaguchi (Sunohara) and Nakamura Yuuichi (Tomoya) both completely nailed their roles.

Overall, my opinion of this anime is that it was one of the most enjoyable series of the last twelve months, but it wasn't one of the best. And I deserve a medal for writing all that, and only mentioning "Kanon" once. Like I said in my review, I hate to allow reviews to be driven by comparison (see my Mai-Otome review for one of my worst), but in cases like these, it's very hard not to.

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Well, I'm stuck.

I've been meaning to do the Triple Critique for CLANNAD only at the end of After Story. Right now though, I'm starting to waver. And considering True Tears is ending soon as well, it's going to eat a lot of my time if I try to do Triple Critiques for both.

Guys, what do you think I should do? Do it anyway and do another one at the end of After Story, or just wait til After Story?

Well, I think the best approach is to treat the first season as independent of the second, and treat the second as an extension of the first. But, it's up to you.

[Kamui4356]

Overall I give the series an 8. Honestly I found it a bit lacking in the story compaired to other series based on a Key game, such as Kanon and Air. Still, it's a solid series, and does stand out in some ways from it's predicessors. The greater emphisis on comedy throughout most of the series for example. Also, Clannad seems to have stepped back a bit from the tragic drama we see in Kanon and Air.

While a solid series, it does have problems with unresolved plot threads, such as the girl in the other world. This will probably be tied up in Clannad After, but it does lose a point for leaving us hanging. It also doesn't really give enough to the Kyou and Tomoyo story, though that understandable. Tighter pacing earily on in Fuuko arc may have helped, though if they had includedmore there might have been problems. It may have also suffered from the scheadulaing losing up to 3 episodes to breaks. If they had been included, it may have helped with the pacing a bit.

I also thought the ending to Nagisa's story was a bit weak. I think it would have been better for Nagisa to realize things on her own rather than have her father shout it in the middle of the theater. Still the rest of it was done well, so I can forgive that.

Still it was a nice take on adapting a bishoujo game, avoiding the repetitive arcs we usually see in the genre. While it definately had it's flaws, it was an enjoyable series, well deserving of an 8.

[EXEs]

I've only gave 1 series a 10/10 and that was TTGL. Clannad gets a 9/10 from me, oh-so-very close.

Animation Quality: 10. This is one of the best points of this show. The animation is top notch quality, as KyoAni is well renowned for their excellent animation. Animation also was very smooth, and has a noticeably higher framerate than most other animes. The characters themselves also looked beautiful on the screen, especially the eyes . The different screen effects for, say sunsets were also executed very well. The scenes with the Imaginary world girl and robot were extremely smooth CG, and was flawless. KyoAni did not skimp on this series, no siree.

The seiyuus did their job really well, from the manly, GAR voice of Akio, to the funnily f@cked up voices of Sunohara when he's getting abused, to Kotomi's cute yet quiet voice. 10/10

The characters. Whoa. This series has so many characters that really appeal to you. Tomoya, kickass male lead, Kyou, realistic tsundere, Sunohara, comic relief, Fuuko, kawaii moemoe. These characters manage to be more realistic than some from other animes, while retaining such a likeable air (Fuuko got annoying when she keeps reappearing randomly). Clannad also has good integration of secondary characters, without completely neglecting them (Yukine 9/10

Plot: The story. I can say that the pacing was somehow erratic. They had Fuuko's arc, which lasted a great deal longer than the other character's arc, so it was quite slow then. Afterwards. they had Kotomi's arc. which was shorter, but still satisfying. Then we see "The hell? 14 episodes passed already, and they only did 2 girls' arcs?" Combining Kyou and Tomoyo's arc was probably not such a good idea, as there was less direct focus on one of the characters. And then, of course, they announced that Clannad ends officially with 2 episodes. So, 8 episodes with 3 girls' arcs to do. The ending felt somehow rushed, and we didn't really see much Tomoya/Nagisa romantic interaction till the last few episodes. 7/10

Humour. Oh lord, this is where Clannad really shines. This series made me l0l much more than any anime I've watched so far (Excel Saga is the only exception, but its main purpose was crack filled humour anyways). Sunohara getting abused is major win. Tomoya pulling pranks on Fuuko, the Kyou/Tomoya gym locker room scene, hell episode 23! Glaring examples. All while not straying away from the main story. 10/10

This series really grew on me, and it was the only anime series I looked forward to every week (Gundam 00 too) when I had my anime depression. The lighthearted fluffiness infused with humour and a touching storyline made this series the bomb for me.

[anselfir]

Clearly school kids love is utterly serious business. gad. We must give grand life lessons (how grand are they anyway? the most serious character by far in tomoyo was shrugged off! she's a good feminist who cooks!) to every character on the books, in order to show that this show is utterly srs business! The entirety of attractiveness for this show is the characters and their quirks, not the contrived backstories and metaphysical nonsense. If you want to do a serious show, pick serious material. School girl romance is not srs material. This so called plot is just a device, come on. Emphasis was deliberately put on the insubstantial, in detriment to the most interesting characters. As such, it falls short of its potential.

but then again, i am to blame for buying into the teases. key aids, beware.


this is not to complain about certain characters not winning. winning in harem type shows is really not proper romance anyway. harem, i.e. multiple girls with romantic drama, is pretty difficult starting point for a truly inspirational romantic tilt. The fantasy ending of harems is not a certain girl winning, but everyone winning together. if there is a decisive standout girl, it would not necessarily be a good sign. either it is forced, with the attractiveness of other characters are forcefully cut off, or you haven't got any other attractive characters at all, a failure of the very exercise. so, they forced a romance onto a harem, with predictable results. i had attributed it to some sort of moral guilt before, but right now im not so sure. maybe it is just the target consumer base.
/facepalm

i didn't pay much attention to nagisa development, not that there was much of one. the basic role could be occupied by any other girl to greater effect, and her position is achieved by basically running a different race than all the other characters. the harem girls shine and provide the content and substance, nagisa is the world tree of generic romance plot with the depth of a first crush. glorious stuff i say.

and yes, this is a harem, at least harem enough for me to call it a harem for my purpose. if the other males in clannad were developed, i think this will be more apparent. imagine questions like "why is tomoyo clinging to this kid" etc. the very security of the willing girls is to orient the viewer in the position of the harem fantasy.

[anselfir]

Call me crazy but I would have liked something wacky to happen. Like when Tomoya was confessing to Nagisa, she rejects him and tell him that she likes Sunohara. There could be a funny "Shock" scene and it would lighten the mood of the episode.

oh how naive you are, young one. nagisa was crowned from day one, and i knew it. just did follow the show for other characters. clannad consists of about 50 animated gifs for me.

were it only about tomoya and nagisa, i would not watch this show, ever. i'd just watch a documentary on say social problems in africa or something, would be far more productive and substantial, not to mention honest.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Originally Posted by anselfir

oh how naive you are, young one. nagisa was crowned from day one, and i knew it. just did follow the show for other characters. clannad consists of about 50 animated gifs for me.

were it only about tomoya and nagisa, i would not watch this show, ever. i'd just watch a documentary on say social problems in africa or something, would be far more productive and substantial, not to mention honest.

Ok... how the hell does a documentary on social problems in Africa relate AT ALL to Tomoya and Nagisa's romance? I don't see the connection nor anything on how it would be more "productive" (Hell no I'll watch my awesome anime kthx) "substantial" or "honest".

Originally Posted by anselfir

i didn't pay much attention to nagisa development, not that there was much of one. the basic role could be occupied by any other girl to greater effect, and her position is achieved by basically running a different race than all the other characters. the harem girls shine and provide the content and substance, nagisa is the world tree of generic romance plot with the depth of a first crush. glorious stuff i say.

I disagree with you here, Nagisa is awesome in her own way as a character. If you replaced Nagisa with say, Tomoyo you'd get a totally different story. Like Tomoyo After. She might seem generic or lacking to development to you but you expressed yourself as someone who can't see the depth in anime or something so maybe you aren't seeing what some other people are?

Originally Posted by anselfir

The entirety of attractiveness for this show is the characters and their quirks, not the contrived backstories and metaphysical nonsense. If you want to do a serious show, pick serious material. School girl romance is not srs material. This so called plot is just a device, come on. Emphasis was deliberately put on the insubstantial, in detriment to the most interesting characters. As such, it falls short of its potential.

It's up to the individual to determine what they like about the show or what's important. If it's serious business to them who are you to say NO IT'S NOT JUST CUZ!!! Or if someone likes the contrived back stories and metaphysical nonsense and see that as why they like the show that's their call.

[anselfir]

what, you think the official pairing is not there to trump up some good fashioned family values and personal redemption. for value based shows, there are far superior sources.


you are quick to defend a character that is not explicitly or even implicitly attacked. the point about nagisa was not that she sucks etc, but that the source of her character is in the plot and the surrounding activities, or what is called a role, fit for a particular type of story. thus i said 'to put someone else in the role', meaning the impersonal and contingent portion of her character could very well be placed on some other personality and the show would go on. it does not necessarily have to be tomoyo et all, it may be a buffed up nagisa, or a nigasa or whatnot it is. the character and the story for nagisa is an assymetric relation, and the point is that there could have been better development on that front.

as for the rest, i do see depth in animu, i see the real depth, but not the imaginary depth. animu is fine as a medium, but let's be honest here, it is a mixed basket at best. that someone see interest in nagisa does not contradict my point at all. i would just say they see the interest in the plot and the story, of which nagisa the phantom character is composed. this is to put it overly harshly, but w/e.

It's up to the individual to determine what they like about the show or what's important. If it's serious business to them who are you to say NO IT'S NOT JUST CUZ!!! Or if someone likes the contrived back stories and metaphysical nonsense and see that as why they like the show that's their call.

and it is up to me THE INDIVIDUAL to tell them that they are being silly. please do not bring relativism etc into this. if you disagree with the assessment that school girl drama is really overblown, say so. i would disagree, and call it trite. anyway, past this silly tangent, i feel you have not worked hard enough to see my approach to the thing, and thus have not come up with much in the way of an argument. the basic point is that the show has both harem elements and romance elements, but the latter is held fast while not given enough room for development due to an insistance to hold onto the former, at least for show, for much of the time. that i happen to see more interest in the harem elements is incidental and rather irrelevant to the main point.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Can we not have things decay into a debate about who the "chosen one" is that gets the guy? Just once? I mean that's not even the core theme or payoff of the series.

[boggart]

Animation Quality: 9
Although top notch in certain episodes and in certain scenes (i.e. Illusionary World), there appeared to be some lacking ingredient which I can't seem to put my finger on at the moment. There were also times when I thought the animators were dead lazy, as in that scene with Kyou's now infamous dead-looking eyes in the club room (slightly before the Basic Instinct-esque leg crossover). The background art was slightly less appealing that Kanon and Air's, if I were to make comparisons with past KyoAni/Key collaborations, however with that being said, the quality was indeed up there in the realms that KyoAni has dominated in recent years.

Voice Actors: 9.5
Everyone's voicing was top-notch, except for my expectations of Ryou's voicing at the very beginning of the series. I guess her voice was the only one which didn't feel "right" at the beginning but eventually I found myself getting used to it.

Script: 8
The pacing of the first episode or two seemed to be on steroids, however it slowed down to a reasonable pace when we got into Fuko's arc. The Ryou/Kyou route seemed to be lacking something more substantial - to me anyway. The end fitted in reasonably well, and given the announcement of ~After Story~, I think it ended on a very sweet note. The bonus episode was also a pleasant ride.

Music: 9
There seemed to be some moments of silence when there could have been at least some BGM playing. I mean look at the repertoire of tracks in the OST of the VN. Other than that, music by Key is always a pleasure to partake in.

Average: 9 (8.875)

NB: Please note that I don't give out 10's very often, and will only do so if it was perfection for which I have witnessed.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by anselfir

you are quick to defend a character that is not explicitly or even implicitly attacked. the point about nagisa was not that she sucks etc, but that the source of her character is in the plot and the surrounding activities, or what is called a role, fit for a particular type of story. thus i said 'to put someone else in the role', meaning the impersonal and contingent portion of her character could very well be placed on some other personality and the show would go on. it does not necessarily have to be tomoyo et all, it may be a buffed up nagisa, or a nigasa or whatnot it is. the character and the story for nagisa is an assymetric relation, and the point is that there could have been better development on that front.

I fail to see what you are trying to say here; only thing i get from your posts is that you don't like the show (or more precisely - Nagisa), the way it developed and are trying to pass it of in negative light using what seems to be rather big but ultimately empty claims. Character only exists to fulfill the role designated for it in the story and displays personality according to the preset circumstances ? Well of course! Every single character in any piece of fiction is like that. Sorry if i misunderstood something, but unless your purpose was to state the obvious, i don't know what you meant to say.

Originally Posted by anselfir

i didn't pay much attention to nagisa development, not that there was much of one. the basic role could be occupied by any other girl to greater effect, and her position is achieved by basically running a different race than all the other characters. the harem girls shine and provide the content and substance, nagisa is the world tree of generic romance plot with the depth of a first crush. glorious stuff i say.

So, you say Nagisa didn't have much development, but at the same time you claim not really having paid attention. She had plenty of development to speak of; it isn't the best thing ever i have seen, but it is nothing to shrug at either. Of course it is "generic romance" in the sense it is about a first crush. Is that bad ? There is hardly anything i would personally consider original, and that doesn't matter to me - whats important is the presentation. And the way the relationship was presented carries more depth than we generally see in "generic romance shows". Except Clannad isn't really about romance in the first place. You can put whatever labels you want on it, but it doesn't take anything away from what it had to say.

and it is up to me THE INDIVIDUAL to tell them that they are being silly. please do not bring relativism etc into this. if you disagree with the assessment that school girl drama is really overblown, say so. i would disagree, and call it trite. anyway, past this silly tangent, i feel you have not worked hard enough to see my approach to the thing, and thus have not come up with much in the way of an argument. the basic point is that the show has both harem elements and romance elements, but the latter is held fast while not given enough room for development due to an insistance to hold onto the former, at least for show, for much of the time. that i happen to see more interest in the harem elements is incidental and rather irrelevant to the main point.

Actually, you having more interest in the harem aspect than romance is quite relevant. At least it helps me understand better why you seem displeased with Nagisa as a character in general - because with her there it is not much of a harem ... or rather the harem element can't develop because Tomoya only has eyes for her and everyone else is being courteous. There are better titles to go after if you are interested in harem ... actually one shouldn't expect true harem from renai game adoptions in the first place.

As for whether the "schoolgirl romance is overblown" - that really is not saying anything. I could say that about almost any genre or thematic you could come up with, as i would have likely seen another dozen shows of said genre. Such "criticism" can really be applied to any genre, and bringing up when it is convenient to make a point doesn't make for a very strong argument.

What am i trying to say ? It is perfectly fine to dislike a show or specific characters. I don't even think one needs to write an essay to explain why. But if one does so, having a biased stance against a character at the core of argument does not make for a very objective review, as subjective of a concept objectivity might be.

[neshru]

animation quality: 10
Probably the anime of the last season with the best animation quality. The animation is great in about every episode, and you really can't say the same for most animes out there.

voice acting: 6
It's alright, even though Nagisa's voice and way of speaking is the most irritating thing I've ever heard in an anime.

music: 5
Mediocre. It doesn't add anything to the show, quite the contrary. I can't think of any memorable track, and some of them are even annoying.

script: 6
There is nothing really great or intriguing about the story, it's rather plain and simple. I can say the same thing about the characters: with the exception of Tomoya and few others, they are all so uninteresting to me. I mean, I didn't care one second for Fuuko and Kotomi sad stories.
The best thing about the show is the humor, I enjoy the fun bits.

overall: 6/7
There are some points that make the show worth watching, but in the end there is nothing memorable about it.
I realize the story is incomplete and there will be a second season, but still many other animes manage to be much more interesting on their first season.

[arkxkra]

I give it 10/10.

The anime have all the happy, sadness, touching and etc moment, although is not sad as Air. But I love the series, all the song, bgm nice as well. Seiyu all was very good.

[DragoonKain3]

I'm not going to lie... I absolutely love Family Dramas. In fact, I try and watch every j-dorama about family that I can get my hands on; it's my favourite genre in live action drama, exceeding even that of your regular romances (mainly because vast majority incorporates some aspect of it). From Otousan/Oyaji to Brother Beat to Stay at Home Dad, I simply can't get enough of it.

So that said, you'd think Clannad would be a major hit with me. Well, it is, but it was a major fail as well.

Fuuko and Kotomi's arc was just done perfectly IMO, as it is the stuff I expect to see from family doramas. Fuuko's because her will is so strong that it literally transcends her human body, while Kotomi hits home especially hard for me as I grew up in such an environment. But I won't get into much in these two arcs, as I think you really have to see it to believe it. It was so powerful though, that I actually was moved to tears, and I'll leave it at that.

Now for the bad part... as much as I love Kyou, I really do think that the Kyou/Tomoyo/Ryou arc was done really badly. First off, there was no dramatic tension at all, since we knew Tomoya was pretty much head over heels for Nagisa even before that point (which is evidence as to why it's a fail to have a GAR character for a pure romance series; thank God Clannad had the family thing going on as its main focus). More importantly, these arcs didn't really fit the theme; it felt as if they were included just for completion's sake.

That is, I really do think it would've been better to cut out their arcs, because they are unable to do it properly in the first place since their stories are very incompatible with Nagisa's. It feels so out of place that it makes even their 'family' feel downright forced. I mean, we're only introduced to Tomoyo's brother the episode she tells about his story, and we're supposed to feel for the guy? Even Kyou's 'sacrifice' for her sister seems like a farce to me, since it CAN be argued that she did it partly because she wants to be at Tomoya's side and yet don't want to risk getting hurt by confessing herself. That might not be the case in game, but them cutting out major portions of each of the character's game arc gives the uninitiated viewer the wrong impression of the real character. So do it right, or don't do it at all IMO.

Nagisa on the other hand, seems to be half baked to me (pardon the pun) as it still feels like I'm still in the middle of her story. I'm still missing the 'punch line'; if that is the climax of her story, then I do feel I was jipped. Her parents' decision to leave their jobs to me isn't that much of a sacrifice; they just had a paradigm shift in that their most important focus is Nagisa above all else. They said it themselves that there are plenty of couples out there who can have a successful career and yet manage to bring up a family at the same time, so they didn't HAVE to quit their dream. They just chose to give it up to spend more time with Nagisa, which IMO is actually a boon as the family had the means to do so even after giving up their 'real' jobs. So yeah, for me there really was nothing 'special' at all about the Furukuwa's parents decision. So I'm actually wanting more from Nagisa since what is shown is to me is just the very basics of family, and I'm looking for something grander.

(Do note that this is coming from someone whose parents were rarely 'home', but not because they want to leave their family alone, but they had to to pay the bills etc. Maybe the reason why I connected with Kotomi's arc more ie because it's more alike with my situation, while I didn't connect with Nagisa's at all as it is the exact opposite of hers in a Family perspective.)

Maybe Clannad wasn't meant for me, as I hardly see anything extraordinary about Family in the last two arcs. First cour, it would've been a first rate show and would've been the best of that season if I left it at that. In fact it was my personal best of the season before winter '08 started, but the failings of the second half really leaves a lot to be desired; Da Capo II now has taken over the runner up of the season for me.

Fuuko: A+
Kotomi: A+
Love Polygon: D-
Nagisa: C-
Overall series grade: B+