[Manga] Chapter 494 Discussion

[Kafriel]

Yeah it must be pretty shocking to read that on these forums, since noone here seems to have the ability to actually like both of the characters, if you like one, you must hate the other it seems.

Guess I'm the only one who appreciates all of NARUTO's characters then

[Ulquiorra]

Honestly, the war and its buildup with Kabuto and Madara is far more interesting than these chapters. I would love to see Madara's plans with Kabuto and more on the village's buildup. I guess a mini training arc is a necessary evil. You have to powerup the main character. Although it wasn't that long since his last powerup.

I sort of cared about the element training. We needed to finally learn about the elements. The sage mode training was a little silly, but I guess Naruto needed the help and at least we knew an epic fight awaited. But I just can't bring myself to care about this Kyuubi training and Kirabi who is becoming less interesting the more the spotlight shines on him.

I also wonder how the Japanese view him. He seems like a character created to be popular in the West. Jiraiya, Kisame, Rock Lee, and Gai are characters very popular in the West but have little to no fanbases in Japan. If you look at the last few Shonen Jump Popularity polls you'll notice a pattern. Sasuke, Kakashi, Naruto, Deidara, Sasori, Neji, Shikamaru, Itachi, Gaara, Iruka. All attractive guys with fangirls and huge pairings.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese fans are tuning this arc out until we get back to Konoha, Madara/Kabuto/Sasuke, and the war.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Hanzoman

And don't give me that "traditional shounen" crap james (j/k ), this is too damn boring.

LOL, don't worry, I'm as bored as everyone else. I just know this crap has to happen before we can get back to the more interesting stuff...(not Sasuke though, the death of Danzou was his last truly interesting moment (him just wandering around now doing shit isn't interesting, though the characters he meets could be interesting); all that is left for him is death or redemption (both potentially interesting, but both far from the current story).)

Kishimoto better give us some fanservice soon (a bathing Karui would be nice ), else my boredom will only grow (even Kubo realizes this, which is why he had Yoruichi show up in a major battle wearing nothing but a one-piece swimming suit...)

[Spicy~Noodles]

Originally Posted by Hanzoman

Tell me about it... But I like to consider that arc Pein's arc ( ) , because hell, he was like 90% of what made it so awsome.

You're spot on Hanzo, that arc was all Pain and nothing more and furthermore, hes my favorite villain, by far.. one of the only characters where I felt being all emo suited him well.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Guess I'm the only one who appreciates all of NARUTO's characters then

You might just be, because I like everyone except Choji. And believe me I'd kill him off early if I was kishimoto, he shoulda died when he released the great power of the butterfly.

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

I also wonder how the Japanese view him. He seems like a character created to be popular in the West.

When I first saw "Killerbee", I thought to myself hes just another stereotypical "japanese manga black guy" who's dumb, impulsive, and huge/muscular. They usually had western characters depicted that way(especially the black ones) in many anime movies while the hero would appear sleek, slim, and outsmart & defeat the western character in 1-2 moves. I admit, the Sasuke fight suprised me, and I even raised my expectations for the character, but then came the Kisame fight (Well I actually gave it a pass since it was Kisame), and now this... Lol, "traditional shounen" indeed.

And to the fellows discussing the apparent absence of anything interesting from the last couple of chapters, I feel the same way. The staleness even reflects on the manga discussions, except for that "Sasuke's (genjitsu/tsukuyomi) vs. Itachi's (tsukuyomi)" debate, which was fun to read (more so than the chapter even ). To be blunt about it, the Uchiha and Akatsuki pretty much made this manga, and if there is a part III, it will probably pale in comparison to I and II. However, I probably won't be sticking around to read it anyway, if its going to revolve around naruto and his dumb ass friends. (Neji and Shika are in my cool book though)

[james0246]

^Villains generally do make the story, mostly because the protagonist generally has to react to the antagonist and whatever they are doing. So, villains do drive the story (not necessarily the plot, but most of the time they do drive the story).

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Villains generally do make the story, mostly because the protagonist generally has to react to the antagonist and whatever they are doing. So, villains do drive the story (not necessarily the plot, but most of the time they do drive the story).

Yes, that's why Marvel was always better than DC, they had the best villains. Vagabond is one of the only mangas I can remember off the top of my head where I was really enthusiastic about the hero. Most of the rest, the villains did it for me. Right now, I've been following the V series, since I used to watch it when I was really young; really the V's are basically the reason I'm still tagging along, the "heroes" are so boring. Its hard for me to find something where the "good guys" interest me as much as the villains.

[james0246]

^I disagree about Marvel v. DC (DC has always had the best crazed villains, something I've always liked (Orochimaru, for instance, is more likely a DC villain, whereas Madara or Pain could be a Marvel villain (and Itachi and Sasuke would be somewhere in the middle)), but completely agree about the V television series. I also remember the mini-series quite fondly, and am enjoying the remake almost solely because of the visitors and their/Anna's manipulations (though I enjoy when the 5th Column manages to actually counterattack the Vs).

[AuroraFlash]

Maybe you're talking about the 60s and 70s... today, nearly everyone can simply slip into the role of a villain. For example, there's a story about the Hulk and he's taking revenge on some other heroes (Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic and many other famous heroes), but in fact the Hulk is the protagonist... I can't remember all the details anymore, but I think it was about the Hulk being dangerous and thus sent to some gladiator planet. He won, became the king of the gladiators and returned to make his foes fight in the arena. Something like that. I think it's most interesting to see characters you liked and thought you knew them well turn into villains. Sadly enough, this does NOT happen concerning Sasuke, because in between he has become a flat character. He's somehow degenerated. He does not matter anymore as a character. He's just a powerful tool now. Despite other characters, we don't get to know anything about his thoughts and feelings anymore.

[iBeast]

Kishi needs to flash a scene of Sasuke or Kisame next chapter...it's so irritating reading this...

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by james0246

^I disagree about Marvel v. DC (DC has always had the best crazed villains, something I've always liked (Orochimaru, for instance, is more likely a DC villain, whereas Madara or Pain could be a Marvel villain (and Itachi and Sasuke would be somewhere in the middle)),

I don't see Orochimaru much more crazed than Madara or Pain... The only thing that may push him past them is the whole experimenting on babies thing, but I don't see Pein or Madara stopping their plans and quoting Scarface saying "I tol you man, no wife no kids!". lol but seriously, I believe if a few Konoha babies stood between them and their goals, Pein and Madara would hop right over them to acheive it, I really wouldn't put it past them. (Pein sure didn't look that concerned about blowing up the entire village - including little kids in it)

DC has remained old school (more or less), and adhered to the "traditional" American comic book style (they were the first after all), but Marvel was known to have the more unconventional characters who tended to be more complex than their DC counter parts. A good example would be Magneto --who I would probably compare to Pein, because despite their appearance, actions and over all demeanor, they both wanted peace, but had questionable methods of achieving it.

I think its analogous to Naruto and Dragon ball Z. Dragon ball is widely considered the grandfather of Shounen manga, and set the standard - while newer derivatives such as naruto follow most of the criteria to belong to the genre, however the characters and plots are more complex. Then again , they(the comic companies) might not be so different from each other now a days; I haven't kept up in a while .

Originally Posted by james0246

but completely agree about the V television series. I also remember the mini-series quite fondly, and am enjoying the remake almost solely because of the visitors and their/Anna's manipulations (though I enjoy when the 5th Column manages to actually counterattack the Vs).

Anna does make a good 2010 Diana doesn't she? I miss her conflicts with the other blond, I forgot her name. It used to be fun to watch their culture, interactions with each other and cringe at the things they ate .

[GDB]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

For example, there's a story about the Hulk and he's taking revenge on some other heroes (Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic and many other famous heroes), but in fact the Hulk is the protagonist... I can't remember all the details anymore, but I think it was about the Hulk being dangerous and thus sent to some gladiator planet. He won, became the king of the gladiators and returned to make his foes fight in the arena. Something like that.

You left out the part where, by becoming King, he ended the tyranny of that planet and was leading it to a time of utopia. Then, the ship that took him there had a bomb built into it, which then exploded, and turned the planet into a barren wasteland with only a handful of survivors. Hulk was rightfully pissed, so he led a retaliation force.

Also, while he smacked down anyone who got in his way, he only sought revenge on the 4 who caused this trouble.

So you heard it here first. Sasuke is less reasonable than the Hulk.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by GDB

So you heard it here first. Sasuke is less reasonable than the Hulk.

Godlike comment, Dude, godlike!
Shit, I still have to laugh while writing this and it's so true. It's like the apotheosis... just godlike!

[bhl88]

I was hoping for a naruto killerbee friendship arc or something... Where naruto is training... To learn rap. xD

[Sabaku Kyu]

I guess ohana's been's pretty bored with the way things are going lately since she hardly bothers to give any kind of details at all with the spoilers. I find Motoi uninteresting so knowing the flashback features him not a real plus for me. But the chapter could turn out be pretty interesting if it's done right.

Originally Posted by GDB

Also, while he smacked down anyone who got in his way, he only sought revenge on the 4 who caused this trouble.

Yes, reasonable.

Musta imagined the part where he declared he'd Hulk-Smash the entire planet if he wasn't given those who caused him trouble.

..and if I recall even getting that still didn't stop him from basically destroying New York...

..also a good-size chunk of the moon

[morbosfist]

The moon was asking for it, obviously, just like it's asking to be used as a giant eye by Madara.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Yes, reasonable.

Musta imagined the part where he declared he'd Hulk-Smash the entire planet if he wasn't given those who caused him trouble.

..and if I recall even getting that still didn't stop him from basically destroying New York...

They'd be getting in his way if they tried to hide those 3. And he had to destroy parts of New York because people kept trying to fight him, and he wasn't having any of that. Also, I say three because...

..also a good-size chunk of the moon

He stopped here on the way to get "Blackbolt", ie culprit #4.

Still, more reasonable than "My brother died so you could live in peace. So, by living in peace without even knowing this, you're responsible for his death. YOU DIE NOW!"

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The moon was asking for it, obviously, just like it's asking to be used as a giant eye by Madara.

After that and dragon ball, i really hope Kishimoto will not destroy the moon

For example Madara casts the moon-genjutsu but Sasuke and Naruto stop him by creating a giant susano with the help of Naruto's huge chakra (i guess if the natural chakra must be in balance with Naruto's and Naruto will control kyuubi and get a huge amount of chakra from there then he can use huge amount of natural chakra too, thus having more chakra than a demon, and that chakra can be used to materialize a susano that's as strong as a 10 tails demon) and shooting a huge arrow in the moon to destroy it

[solidguy]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Don't worry, Kishimoto will retcon Naruto's past soon enough, and show Naruto being constantly beaten and harassed. Why? Cause otherwise Naruto's hatred will seem a little silly (why is it so powerful if the worst that has ever happened to him is a little loneliness?).

which is exactly what i was trying to say to ero-sennin last chapters discussion.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by GDB

He stopped here on the way to get "Blackbolt", ie culprit #4.

Still, more reasonable than "My brother died so you could live in peace. So, by living in peace without even knowing this, you're responsible for his death. YOU DIE NOW!"

Aye. I can maybe agree with that. It's fun, but I've decided to avoid going deeply into Hulk reasoning vs Sasuke reasoning here. Both of them are capable of just about anything if they're mad enough.

But for the time being, it seems Sasuke has at least decided that Konoha gets left alone until he defeats Naruto.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

After that and dragon ball, i really hope Kishimoto will not destroy the moon

For example Madara casts the moon-genjutsu but Sasuke and Naruto stop him by creating a giant susano with the help of Naruto's huge chakra (i guess if the natural chakra must be in balance with Naruto's and Naruto will control kyuubi and get a huge amount of chakra from there then he can use huge amount of natural chakra too, thus having more chakra than a demon, and that chakra can be used to materialize a susano that's as strong as a 10 tails demon) and shooting a huge arrow in the moon to destroy it

Well, he's already gone the opposite route and had a ninja technique create the moon in the first place. Why not have one destroy it?