Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by HasuMasu

I wasn't talking about dark as in being straight-up evil. I meant the tone of the story. A darker tone can even highlight an optimistic message, so basically exactly like Injustice or Superman vs The Elite.

I'm referring to the darker tone in Injustice too.

In the comics, Batman is considered the "good guy", but throughout the years he had to compromise his moral more and more in order to continue his struggled against Superman and his (Batman's) decisions have been questioned every step of the way, and every single time Batman has lowered himself closer to Superman's level his decision has come back to bite him in the ass (being manipulated by Constantine, letting a war between the Greek gods get out of hand, and getting lots and lots of characters killed).

You can even see that in the actual game when Batman's plan to kill Superman utterly fails and is only the arrival of "normal" Superman, who embodies the good side of the character, that saves the day.

[HasuMasu]

Maybe I'm just not understanding your point.

My point is that the Justice League and especially Superman can have good stories with dark tones. I also think a dark tone can potentially still give an optimistic message in the end. That's all there is to it.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by HasuMasu

Maybe I'm just not understanding your point.

My point is that the Justice League and especially Superman can have good stories with dark tones. I also think a dark tone can potentially still give an optimistic message in the end. That's all there is to it.

You can have some good stories with dark tones sure. But all you have are dark tones, I don't think that will end up being very good. A dark tone with Superman works, because it's a contrast. A contrast to who the character normally is. If you just start dark tone like they have here....it's not as interesting or leading to an optimistic message.

You just end up with characters that don't feel like themselves. Superman being Batman, Batman being the Punisher, and Luthor being the Joker.

I agree with the point, I just don't think it is right when it comes to this movie.

[LoweGear]

Keep in mind that whether a movie has a light or dark tone actually also depends on the actions of the characters themselves as well as how they act and react. You can have a story that uses vibrant, bright flashy colors in open daylight with cute looking charaters and still have a dark tone to the story if the way people act are full of pessimism, defeatism, fear etc.

It's part of the reason why this Superman is considered "dark", mainly because he doesn't real show himself being "light", aka the positive qualities that he's supposed to display and embody, and instead succumbing to the fears and general pessimism of the story being weaved.

[HasuMasu]

I don't think Superman succumbed to the world's criticism of him. Rather, I think his actions show he rose above that and showed how much of a hero he is, but I feel like this argument is just going in circles.

[LoweGear]

So reading this, and while the exact quote in question isn't about BvS, I still think it's highly relevant:

“The audience’s instinctive reaction is ‘they’re not really dead’,” says Markus. “It’s not as powerful a card to play as you think….If you’re going to do it, you have to be fully committed to never seeing that character again.”

And unfortunately, BvS stumbles hard in that aspect by simply killing Superman off as though that's supposed to mean something, when we all know he's going to be alive and well again. Throughout the entire funeral scene I kept waiting for the sign that Superman is coming back, and lo and behold they didn't disappoint... much to my disappointment unfortunately.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by HasuMasu

I don't think Superman succumbed to the world's criticism of him. Rather, I think his actions show he rose above that and showed how much of a hero he is, but I feel like this argument is just going in circles.

He is a hero, yes, but more of a Batman, necessary evil kind of hero. The hero who lives in darkness, alone, and forever hides themselves.

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

He is a hero, yes, but more of a Batman, necessary evil kind of hero. The hero who lives in darkness, alone, and forever hides themselves.

You're exaggerating. I just felt like he was more human. He tried to reach out to the world in a way Batman wouldn't, but he got hurt, so he had to reaffirm his resolve again before coming back.

[Akito Kinomoto]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/8AO19XY2rqc

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Batman v Superman: we're sorry we fucked up the plot edition