Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 12 [END] Discussion / Poll

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Thess

Excuse me? If Shoko had become a pilot and fought in some blattles instead of Haruto, she would be the one wasting runes too.

And clearly you missed my skepticism of that ever having a chance of happening. There was no way she ever had a chance of fighting the last boss at this juncture. I would've been surprised to see Okouchi step outside the box like that.

[Haigon]

This could be avoided if Satomi voluntaried to refill the VVVs for Akira.

That would be too much for Sunrise.

[Fjoergyn]

Originally Posted by zerriet

I get what you mean now, do you think there might be a potential s3 with the 3 girls as the main characters?

Without L-Elf the show is a failure. Shoko as leader of an empire when it never did shit

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by zerriet

I get what you mean now, do you think there might be a potential s3 with the 3 girls as the main characters?

I guess it'll depend on how well Season 2 sells.

There is room for more story, but it doesn't feel like it's absolutely necessary.

The far-flung future stuff keeps a new door ajar, but the main story is complete.

If this is it for Valvrave, I could live with it. But a future story focusing on Shouko, Saki, Akira, and Satomi could be fun. And yeah, it could make up for the major female characters getting shafted a bit in this ending.

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Fjoergyn

Without L-Elf the show is a failure. Shoko as leader of an empire when it never did shit

Who ever said L-Elf was gone for real?

[KleenexGhost]

Speaking of the problem with Runes, I'm surprised they didn't pull something out of their ass to solve that problem in the epilogue. That means Shoko is gonna slowly lose her memories and eventually her life.

As for L-Elf's ultimate fate in the future, I guess we're gonna have to go on the eventual Word of God for a definitive answer. Like Triple R said, if he's dead then I would expect him to have a bust as well. But his absence from the timeskip would lead me to believe he's gone.

[Allium]

As I feared, it ended up being rushed.

[Fjoergyn]

Originally Posted by zerriet

Who ever said L-Elf was gone for real?

There is no information that says alive in the future, do not flatter yourself silly.

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Fjoergyn

There is no information that says alive in the future, do not flatter yourself silly.

My bad, i just wanted to say that its pretty much in the open anyway as of now

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Haruto's point was that Cain (and the Magius) took the easy way out due to how they were hurt by humans rejecting them. He argued that unlike Cain and the Magius, Haruto's friends kept fighting on in spite of everything bad that happened to them, so Haruto was going to do the same and triumph.

But Shouko didn't fight on. She sold Haruto out to the ARUS President. She then chose to not stand up for Haruto when the students continued to rail against him. Even in this episode, she never voiced a lone word to defend Haruto from Iori's hate.

I don't hate Shouko for this. I get why she did what she did. But it's definitely not praise-worthy. She made morally questionable compromises just as much as Cain did.


Haruto's speech would have been better if he had specifically named Kyuma and Thunder, and not named Shouko. That would have fit the actual facts much better.

I thought it was clear Haruto was referencing Shoko in season one. He mentioned the whole thing with her father didn't he? I don't think he would suddenly discard all her previous actions just because of that one fallout (that he regretted not handling differently). It would've been nice to hear other characters get a mention though but, of course, pacing issues lasted right to the end.

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

As for L-Elf's ultimate fate in the future, I guess we're gonna have to go on the eventual Word of God for a definitive answer.

I think the different question for the contract is a sign that the conditions for becoming a pilot may have changed. Considering the whole taste thing with Pino, I wouldn't be surprised if Prue being there allows them more leeway with picking candidates. As such if it turns out L-Elf is immortal I wouldn't be surprised.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But even then, the show really dropped the ball badly with its female characters.

Other than Shoko, which character they dropped the ball? Even those who were fairly minor, like Aina, were pretty consistent and well written. Though I agree the male characters, specially A-drei, Satomi and L-Elf have more solid character development. I thought Akira and Saki were better than Kyuuma and Thunder, though.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Shouko has basically done nothing helpful since being elected Prime Minister way back in Season 1. She's certainly done nothing helpful during Season 2. You'd think they would have at least had Shouko be the one to talk some sense into Iori, but instead they decided to give that role to Satomi's other entourage member.

What made me cringe more was Nanami having to call sense to the ship while Shoko froze and did nothing. She was injured and fairly agonizing but she was the one who made that call. I just... felt even with the ending they tried to save face, Shoko's character was trolled on purpose.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Honestly, the way Shouko's been wrote for this entire season made Haruto's big speech to Cain ring a bit hollow to me. Sorry, Valvrave, but speeches like that have to accurately reflect what's actually happened in the story up to this point, and Shouko has simply not earned this sort of praise from Haruto. And given that this speech is key to the climatic moments of the entire show, this is a frankly huge writing error.

At least he brought up L-Elf first when he made his argument and died in his presence. He was indeed the example to go: interaction with humans, specially those who are strangers, isn't easy, but it's not impossible. In the end, Haruto died without knowing Shoko's feelings, but that's ok, the feelings that mattered to make it work were L-Elf's.

[Fjoergyn]

Originally Posted by zerriet

My bad, i just wanted to say that its pretty much in the open anyway as of now

It is left to interpretation, but many wanted to see L-Elf as Emperor. It's a shame that the series has been written by a mediocre.

[Sinestra]

What a Train Wreck its not even worth giving a full summery. Gimmick writing is by far the worst way to write a story. The potential was there but it was a struggle to get through VV after seeing where it headed. Plot hole, useless deaths, leaving more questions at the end than in the beginning, plot device.

There is no way in hell i can give this episode anything above 4/10. It was just that awful

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Thess

Other than Shoko, which character they dropped the ball? Even those who were fairly minor, like Aina, were pretty consistent and well written. Though I agree the male characters, specially A-drei, Satomi and L-Elf have more solid character development. I thought Akira and Saki were better than Kyuuma and Thunder, though.



What made me cringe more was Nanami having to call sense to the ship while Shoko froze and did nothing. She was injured and fairly agonizing but she was the one who made that call. I just... felt even with the ending they tried to save face, Shoko's character was trolled on purpose.



At least he brought up L-Elf first when he made his argument and died in his presence. He was indeed the example to go: interaction with humans, specially those who are strangers, isn't easy, but it's not impossible. In the end, Haruto died without knowing Shoko's feelings, but that's ok, the feelings that mattered to make it work were L-Elf's.

really bitter sweet ending imo, though obviously the writing for some characters could have maybe improved. But hey, at least Shoko did something that hints of her living Haruto's dream even if only minor

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I think the different question for the contract is a sign that the conditions for becoming a pilot may have changed. Considering the whole taste thing with Pino, I wouldn't be surprised if Prue being there allows them more leeway with picking candidates. As such if it turns out L-Elf is immortal I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't think the 'taste' thing had to do with her choices, but far more perhaps genetic compatibility to become kamitsuki. That said they could have discovered some method to extend his lifespan since the empire expanded across the galaxy.

Okouchi was mentioning in his twitter he wanted to leave things to the viewer's interpretation, even if he left hints (including the Imperial Prince's parentage). Which usually translates: "we don't want to anger our major fanbases with a steady anger, so please speculate!"

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I think the different question for the contract is a sign that the conditions for becoming a pilot may have changed. Considering the whole taste thing with Pino, I wouldn't be surprised if Prue being there allows them more leeway with picking candidates. As such if it turns out L-Elf is immortal I wouldn't be surprised.

That's true. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if they actually showed the process of how it eventually changed. Rather than just show the end result, you know?

[zztop]

Originally Posted by Thess

Okouchi was mentioning in his twitter he wanted to leave things to the viewer's interpretation, even if he left hints (including the Imperial Prince's parentage). Which usually translates: "we don't want to anger our major fanbases with a steady anger, so please speculate!"

Thanks for the update!!

Did Okouchi clarify or say anything else?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by zztop

Thanks for the update!!

Did Okouchi clarify or say anything else?

Honestly don't remember the details but he was very evasive in general, will check out after my lunch. And honestly, I don't want L-Elf immortal. It doesn't fit.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Thess

I don't think the 'taste' thing had to do with her choices, but far more perhaps genetic compatibility to become kamitsuki. That said they could have discovered some method to extend his lifespan since the empire expanded across the galaxy.

There's that possibility too. Alternatively, maybe his bloodline produces a military genius every generation or so.

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

That's true. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if they actually showed the process of how it eventually changed. Rather than just show the end result, you know?

I hear ya on that. It's possible they didn't want to tease that much when they knew they might not get to explore it.

[Mad Pierrot]

I get what you mean now, do you think there might be a potential s3 with the 3 girls as the main characters?

The problem of the future storyline is there will be no Dorssia soldiers because they can't become Kamitsuki. A third season could be like Gundam Wing Frozen Teardrop but I heard really bad things about it.

By the way, where did Okuchi say that? It's like he knows he is pissing off a lot of people and wants to dodge the bullet