About Shinn and Kira...

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Kira is a better pilot than Shinn, he just refuses to kill

BS..... explain what happened with Rau, meteor splitting a battleship in half, kira destroying minerva's gun, steller? Im sure they were all just accidents.

As to better pilot.. One is not a better pilot if pilot allows himself to become defeated unnecessary. Thats what we call an inferior pilot. So im calling BS on that as well.

[LightMaster]

Originally Posted by winter45

BS..... explain what happened with Rau, meteor splitting a battleship in half, kira destroying minerva's gun, steller? Im sure they were all just accidents.

It's more accurate to say he avoids killing, though you can't honestly think he expected to kill that many, if any people when he shot Minerva's gun.

As to better pilot.. One is not a better pilot if pilot allows himself to become defeated unnecessary. Thats what we call an inferior pilot. So im calling BS on that as well.

You call it a distracted pilot, a bad day perhaps. If your honestly going to try and call someone inferior based on a single battle...your daft. No pilot has a spotless record, real or fictional.

[winter45]

agreed he does avoid killing, but upright saying he doesnt kill is false.

Even if he is having a bad day or being distracted or whatever explanation he still lost. To claim he is a better pilot over shinn tho he could never defeat shinn decisively while both are in seed mode is hardly being a better pilot.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by winter45

agreed he does avoid killing, but upright saying he doesnt kill is false.

Even if he is having a bad day or being distracted or whatever explanation he still lost. To claim he is a better pilot over shinn tho he could never defeat shinn decisively while both are in seed mode is hardly being a better pilot.

false? no, He avoids killing to the point where it bit him in the ass, that is the entire point of the Impulse Vs Freedom, Kira ended up getting his ass kicked because he refused to try and kill Shinn until it was too late.

Kira is too arrogant. He sticks to his " no kill " policy until he/someone is in too much touble, in the end, he lost a fight against Shinn

But saying Shinn is a better pilot is wrong, Kira both has more experience and skill than Shinn which is proved pretty much throughout the series, sad enough.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

But saying Shinn is a better pilot is wrong, Kira both has more experience and skill than Shinn which is proved pretty much throughout the series, sad enough.

I second to that, Kira fight's Shin with handicaps on his side. Kira is always cautious in his fights against Shin, which is the opposite of Shin. Plus the blonde guy always backs him up, which is truly a coward act.

Shin knows Kira's better than him and feels that he look down on him.... It's obvious when he meets Kira again at Orb.

[RaidenSix]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, I think Shinn did saw Calamity and Raider, but I'm not sure if he saw Freedom or only the explosion that Freedom caused. And if Shinn didn't actually see Freedom then, he wouldn't know anything after that since Shinn was picking up Mayu's phone when the actual explosion that killed his family happened.

Shinn should be blaming himself. Who stops in the middle of a war zone to pick up a cell phone?

[monster]

Originally Posted by RaidenSix

Shinn should be blaming himself. Who stops in the middle of a war zone to pick up a cell phone?

Mayu was the one wanting to get the phone, and her struggling had already stopped the whole family. Shinn getting the phone was the right thing to do as it would've made Mayu stop struggling and to continue running. Moreover, Shinn getting down to get the phone actually helped him to escape the explosion that killed his family. If he had just waited to see if their parents are successful in forcing Mayu to leave her phone, Shinn could've been caught up in the explosion as well.

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

false? no,....

im agreeing with you here.. so there wasnt any reason to reply to this

Originally Posted by Znozzy

He sticks to his " no kill " policy until he/someone is in too much touble, in the end, he lost a fight against Shinn

So how does this make Kira a better pilot?

Originally Posted by Znozzy

But saying Shinn is a better pilot is wrong, Kira both has more experience and skill than Shinn which is proved pretty much throughout the series, sad enough.

Who you or i think is better is subjective. Shinn adapted and overcomes his opponent and won. Thats more than enough acceptable reason for me to accept that shinn is the better pilot.

Originally Posted by genjichan

I second to that, Kira fight's Shin with handicaps on his side.

Hmmm I guess you have missed the part when Durandal stated ONSCREEN that freedom is superior to impulse.. Shinn handicaped much? I Dont think so...

Originally Posted by genjichan

Plus the blonde guy always backs him up, which is truly a coward act..

So using your logic.. does this make Athrun cowardly when his backing kira up?

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by winter45

im agreeing with you here.. so there wasnt any reason to reply to this

So how does this make Kira a better pilot?

how does it not make him a better pilot? that's Kira's big Weakness, as shown when he lost to the Impulse and Shinn for being flat out arrogant and stupid, Shinn also has alot of flaws

Who you or i think is better is subjective. Shinn adapted and overcomes his opponent and won. Thats more than enough acceptable reason for me to accept that shinn is the better pilot.

So did Kira, rewatch SEED from 1-30, Kira in the Strike was a brilliant pilot and used great tactics like switching the backpacks midbattle with the sky graspers.

Kira did however, get lazy once he got the Freedom.

Shinn pretty much got lazy when he got the Destiny so, they equal eachother out there, except that Kira is a Civilian, Shinn is not.

You can bring up Freedom Vs Impulse as a argument for Shinn being a better pilot than Kira, but rewatch Destiny and Seed if you think that is a solid argument, Kira has shot down Shinn several times, he never goes for the kill, which is stupid, but he is a better pilot overall than Shinn, more innovative than Shinn in the impulse when he was the pilot of the Strike

Hmmm I guess you have missed the part when Durandal stated ONSCREEN that freedom is superior to impulse.. Shinn handicaped much? I Dont think so...

Freedom is a superior suit, yes. But Kira wasnt using the suit to it's full potential while fighting shinn, if he did, he would've killed him, but once again he let his own stupidity get the best of him.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by winter45

Hmmm I guess you have missed the part when Durandal stated ONSCREEN that freedom is superior to impulse.. Shinn handicaped much? I Dont think so...

I remember Rey pretty much saying that during there planning session I don't remember Durandal mentioning it.

So using your logic.. does this make Athrun cowardly when his backing kira up?

I think we would also need to discuss alot of Kira's other fighting habits as well such as taking on mass production models with the Freedom/Strike Freedom not exactly sporting fighting an enemy you beat when the number are 10 to 1 or more without taking a scratch.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Shinn pretty much got lazy when he got the Destiny so, they equal eachother out there, except that Kira is a Civilian, Shinn is not.

Shinn didn't get lazy he went insane and his rage got out of control in the process to the point it started making him sloppy.

Freedom is a superior suit, yes. But Kira wasnt using the suit to it's full potential while fighting shinn, if he did, he would've killed him, but once again he let his own stupidity get the best of him.

I think a better description would be arrogance not stupidity he had beat Shinn before therefore was a bit over confident that plus he paniced a bit when Shinn's plan started working.

[tetsuo69]

Durandal even after shinn beats freedom tells athrun and shinn , had kira accepted his fate he would be another whole level of skills, and i'm guessing he meant had kira been train as a soldier, he would remove one of his biggest weakness as he wouldn't let his feeling get in the way and this would mean no killing policy + military training, he wouldn't use the same tactis over and over , like with destroyed or the druggies, were he kept trying the same tactis even after seeing they werent working.

had flay stayed with kira i don't think he would had taken the no killing policy that he did when meeting again lacus.

[23 gundam fan]

when i think of shinn and kira what comes to mind is there feats as ms pilots. both shinn and kira have many feats when it comes to destorying other ms, and battleships but when you look at the major events such as requiem what did we see . we saw shinn failing to protect it and thus his dream at the time to end war. but with kira his major feats in both gs and gsd are crap. i have been thinking about this and at the end of the day kira didnt really do anything when the fourth quarter came around. let me explain in gundam seed when genesis was about to fire where did we find the main character, he was in a one on one talk it out battle with ra lu creset. i mean maybe i am wrong but i thought the mission was to take out genesis. and in gsd when it came to requiem what did we find, we find a battle of ideology between rey and kira while the real danger was requiem. i get why athrun is respected because in both cases he is the one out there saving the planet earth, when kira is caught up in one battle that is not going to end the real danger. i mean wining these talks is not going to stop genesis or requiem. kira skills would be put to better use in dealing with the real problems, not a fight with one single ms. i mean this is gundam and they have to preach a bit to get there point across but come on, on the battlefield lets be real here who has time for that.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

I remember Rey pretty much saying that during there planning session I don't remember Durandal mentioning it.

I think we would also need to discuss alot of Kira's other fighting habits as well such as taking on mass production models with the Freedom/Strike Freedom not exactly sporting fighting an enemy you beat when the number are 10 to 1 or more without taking a scratch.

But that's what war is about, to defeat your enemy, its not about what looks good, or how many cool poses you do with a beam sabre, it's about winning, shooting down as many enemies is a really, really good tactic.

Then again, that's the way this show is, i don't like that kira manages to rape grunts just by waving his finger, But apparently that's what the S/Freedom is good at, and the way the show is made

Shinn didn't get lazy he went insane and his rage got out of control in the process to the point it started making him sloppy.

in my eyes, Shinn was a better pilot in the Impulse than in the Destiny, it seems like he lost that innovative hothead " spark " he had in the Impulse.

Whenever he went into RAGE mode he ended up kicking ass and in the end getting decipated by Athrun because of his lack of selfcontrol, so you can pretty much see it as a double edged sword

I think a better description would be arrogance not stupidity he had beat Shinn before therefore was a bit over confident that plus he paniced a bit when Shinn's plan started working.

When it comes to Kira, he became arrogant and stupid at the same time, in the end getting his ass kicked by Shinn and the Impulse

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

But that's what war is about, to defeat your enemy, its not about what looks good, or how many cool poses you do with a beam sabre, it's about winning, shooting down as many enemies is a really, really good tactic.

Then again, that's the way this show is, i don't like that kira manages to rape grunts just by waving his finger, But apparently that's what the S/Freedom is good at, and the way the show is made

I agree with you man how war is I like that they let the characters go for the easy or creative win. I just get sick of the Kira fanboys lambasting Shinn for how he fought against the Freedom when it was a creative strategy and niether Kira nor Gundam in general has ever been about fighting fair.

in my eyes, Shinn was a better pilot in the Impulse than in the Destiny, it seems like he lost that innovative hothead " spark " he had in the Impulse.

Whenever he went into RAGE mode he ended up kicking ass and in the end getting decipated by Athrun because of his lack of selfcontrol, so you can pretty much see it as a double edged sword

Shinn2 was a better pilot when he was in the Impluse then his anger was getting fires up by the time he got the Destiny he was so enraged it was clouding his mind and making his piloting sloppy.

[wingdarkness]

^Shinn in the Impulse was superior, but who knew that the Destiny Gundam (supposedly the name of the show) would be a joke in specs compared to S-F and Infinite-JustUS? DESTINY had one effin trick (TransAm^^) and if you got that A$$word out of the way it had nothing it could do vs. those other 2 suits...I mean if I-J wasn't the Swiss Army Knife of Gundam I don't know what was...And giving Kira Dragoon-bits (fangs) was like giving that Planet of the Ape monkey the other 1%...

Don't even get me started on Destiny having to recharge it's cells while the other 2 suits had unlimited energy (Jesus Jenkins )...No doubt about it, Shinn was born to fail after he $hited on original Freedom...

[monster]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

I just get sick of the Kira fanboys lambasting Shinn for how he fought against the Freedom when it was a creative strategy and niether Kira nor Gundam in general has ever been about fighting fair.

I don't know why anyone would complain about someone not fighting fair when it comes to an actual battle. Fairness only counts in games, sports, and competitions with a predetermined set of rules. As such, fairness is not a factor when it comes to the fact that Shinn defeated Kira in phase 34 of SEED Destiny.

The only thing that people can and do argue about is whether this one fight alone is enough to prove that Shinn is a better pilot than Kira.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by monster

The only thing that people can and do argue about is whether this one fight alone is enough to prove that Shinn is a better pilot than Kira.

The only think I have to say on the subject is that, when Shinn destroyed the Freedom, he was the more prepared pilot and it showed.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

The only think I have to say on the subject is that, when Shinn destroyed the Freedom, he was the more prepared pilot and it showed.

Indeed it does.

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

So did Kira, rewatch SEED from 1-30, Kira in the Strike was a brilliant pilot and used great tactics like switching the backpacks midbattle with the sky graspers.

Then kira will have a better understanding on some Impulse capabilities... did he exploit his knowledge and experience? no he didnt.

This only makes kira more stupid not better.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Shinn pretty much got lazy when he got the Destiny so, they equal eachother out there .

And yet kira still didnt achieve a decisive victory against Shinn when shinn is in a lazier Suit.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

You can bring up Freedom Vs Impulse as a argument for Shinn being a better pilot than Kira, but rewatch Destiny and Seed if you think that is a solid argument, Kira has shot down Shinn several times

Your right... difference here is that shinn hasn't discovered his seed mode which is a major handicap. But i guess being biased clouds your view.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Freedom is a superior suit, yes. But Kira wasnt using the suit to it's full potential while fighting shinn, if he did, he would've killed him,

Full potential as in spamming beams at shinn?

Originally Posted by tetsuo69

Durandal even after shinn beats freedom tells athrun and shinn , had kira accepted his fate he would be another whole level of skills,

I remember this line but the dialogue is quite ambiguous could mean anything as you put it. Anyone's guess to what Durandal is getting at.

Originally Posted by GundamFan

I agree with you man how war is I like that they let the characters go for the easy or creative win. I just get sick of the Kira fanboys lambasting Shinn for how he fought against the Freedom when it was a creative strategy and niether Kira nor Gundam in general has ever been about fighting fair..

Shinn adapted and overcomes his opponent and won. Military training teaches not to be predictable or else the enemy will predict your actions.

2nd I don't remember in my 4 tour of duties in the fronlines where anyone fought fair.. Its sad that kira biased fanboy's have to bring up nonsense of fairness crap talk in discussions.... which is ..... unfair

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

The only think I have to say on the subject is that, when Shinn destroyed the Freedom, he was the more prepared pilot and it showed.

Nice post cookies for you

Being prepared prior a battle is a must in any professional military unit.. This helps to achieve victory and improve *better* performance

Originally Posted by monster

The only thing that people can and do argue about is whether this one fight alone is enough to prove that Shinn is a better pilot than Kira.

I get it!!!... so when a kira fan #34543645674778 randomly brings up DAT KIRA IS DA BEST!!! and Shinn SUXORS!!!we are all suppose to accept that by default? Dont think so..

[monster]

Originally Posted by winter45

Then kira will have a better understanding on Impulse capabilities... did he exploit his knowledge and experience? no he didnt.

This only makes kira more stupid not better.

Except Impulse could do a lot more than Strike ever did.

Among some of the things Impulse could do:
- Have a replacement pack be brought without needing another unit to carry it.
- Recharge its batteries without having to equip another pack.
- Lose a limb and have it be replaced. In fact, lose everything other than the Core Splendor and still be ready again for battle within minutes, if not seconds.
- Temporarily separate its parts in midair and recombine those parts.
- Actually float or even fly in the air.

So to say that Impulse is just like the Strike so Kira should know how to deal with it shows either ignorance or complete disregard for the things that made Impulse unique and a different and better mobile suit than Strike.

I get it!!!... so when a kira fan randomly brings up DAT KIRA IS DA BEST!!! and Shinn SUXORS!!!we are all suppose to accept that by default? Dont think so..

What are you babbling about here?