Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Whoa whoa what? Since when was it revealed that Louise's family was involved in arms dealing and the rail transport?

Even so that doesn't justify Neena's killing of them. For cripes sake why are people trying to justify that Neena was right in killing those people?

Totally agree with you. Also rich people serve themselves don't they, at a function like that the staffing there would be at least half the number of guests if not more. And catering staff always get poo'ed on by the management no matter what age you are in, the last thing they need is particle weapon shoved up their arses.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I found a better nit-pick. Why'd he use Nadeleeh at all?

Probably because:
1) it as 3v2 and there was no way he could be sure that he and setsuna would win asit was either a even fight, if not titled in Trinity's favor
2) Had Nadleeh's power keep working as he fully expected it to both Neena and her brother would be dead by now, and the third brother would be quick to follow... Nadleeh makes the near perfect anti-gundam weapon

my nit pick... wasn't virtue over the water when he released his parts? i guess one could argue that he was over land it was our own shotty perspective of the scene that threw us off, but even then it seems to be a bit poor set up work; the thones may have fallen straight down even though it looked they were falling diagonally... just a second or two of virtue's parts slamming into the ground would have suffice to tells use for sure they were over land; or showing them scattered near where the thones fell

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Certainly it wasn't shown, but the AEU which were the ones aiming for Virtue were rotating their mobile suits that reached their operation limit so I am assuming that they kept up the pressure on Virtue and Exia since that was the whole plan of the operation. we didn't really see Virtue and Exia as much during the bombardment phase but it wouldn't make any sense if the HRL were the only ones pressuring the meisters.

I don't think it can be assumed ground forces attempted to advance on the Gundams unless it was actually shown. Evidently they were banking heavily on pilot fatique and the Gundams apparent inability to wade through artillery fire unhindered. At least it would seem artillery and missles can still track faster than the Gundams can move along the ground.

Cause Trial system = instant win versus other gundams

A GN-Bazooka blast would have ended it faster, if less dramatically. Rather than fly right up to them, just shoot them. Again, my rational explanation is that he wanted to show off. Bit of a drama queen and all that.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Probably because:
1) it as 3v2 and there was no way he could be sure that he and setsuna would win asit was either a even fight, if not titled in Trinity's favor
2) Had Nadleeh's power keep working as he fully expected it to both Neena and her brother would be dead by now, and the third brother would be quick to follow... Nadleeh makes the near perfect anti-gundam weapon

I just explained why I thought Nadeleeh was an unnecessary and potentionally risky move.

my nit pick... wasn't virtue over the water when he released his parts? i guess one could argue that he was over land it was our own shotty perspective of the scene that threw us off, but even then it seems to be a bit poor set up work; the thones may have fallen straight down even though it looked they were falling diagonally... just a second or two of virtue's parts slamming into the ground would have suffice to tells use for sure they were over land; or showing them scattered near where the thones fell

Obviously the recovery process for Virtue will be a complicated and time-consuming affair, regardless of whether it was over water or land. Not to say that such a thing should mean he shouldn't have used it, but it's worth considering the circumstances in which you find yourself before pulling out Nadeleeh.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

A GN-Bazooka blast would have ended it faster, if less dramatically. Rather than fly right up to them, just shoot them. Again, my rational explanation is that he wanted to show off. Bit of a drama queen and all that.

I can't quite remember but didn't he eject his BFG?

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I can't quite remember but didn't he eject his BFG?

He didn't seem to have it when he attacked Nena and Johan with his beamsaber, but we didn't see him lose it before that point either. It was simply gone all of a sudden.

And he still had the blasters on Virtue's shoulders, so even without his primary weapon he could simply shot them.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

He didn't seem to have it when he attacked Nena and Johan with his beamsaber, but we didn't see him lose it before that point either. It was simply gone all of a sudden.

And he still had the blasters on Virtue's shoulders, so even without his primary weapon he could simply shot them.

Hmmm oh well looking cool is good too

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Hmmm oh well looking cool is good too

If I wanted "looking cool" for no reason, I'd watch Bleach. It simply rings hollow with me to watch the Meisters almost literally play "Good guys and Bad guys". You know, I think an analogy might be a group of kids running amok in a super market, with no one able to discipline them or find their parents.

That's who the Meisters are. A group of children that no one tells to behave. I think this show would have been better served if they were literally children, rather than the adult/near-adults they are. At least then it could be a novelty, rather than an annoyance.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I just explained why I thought Nadeleeh was an unnecessary and potentionally risky move.

Well forgive me, i don't have time to read keep up with everything written long thread and can't tell if and when you made previous responses unless i go back a few pages not knowing if you made such a responce one page back or 10 pages back (not everyone has that much time to spend on forums)

looking back at your previous posts...
For one thing, the thones were indeed connected to Veda, hence how they powered down at first. And if i recall, the miesters managed to gather some information from the thones when they paid a visit to their ship. also, i would have to double check, but i think it was said that the Thrones were made like the gundams with the only difference being the GN drive... based on this, He knew that Nadleeh's power would work, which it did at first... however what he did not know is that he can't fully trust Veda as he did in the past and that his power was not as absolute as he was told it should be; seems fairly obvious that executing Gundams is one of the fuctions of Nadleeh

And yes, while his cannons can do serious damage we've seen both AEU and HRL Grunts dodge those attacks... more than likely, the thrones would be able to dodge such attacks aswell... and with Sestuna figthing one of the thones, Virtue would have been stuck in a one on two fight and we've seen how grunts have managed to use superior numbers to take down virtue in the past. Really, more than likely, Virtue would have lost that fight...

Now, if they knew lockon was gonna join the fight then he could have kept fighting in Virtue and been able to win without needing to resort to using Nadleeh

[Zeta Gundam]

GN Bazooka and Virtue in general=Slow as hell.

If Grunts can dodge the Gn Bazooka shots why wouldn't better pilots or at the least potentially bigger threats be able to?The windup/lag time of the GN Bazooka is so slow and predictable it's laughable,not to mention that Virtue has a wide radius of movement in general=Bigger and slower moving target=Able to be shot easier.

It seems that Tieria is confused himself,and doesn't even really have that much faith in VEDA anymore,so why not use all possible advantages?Heck he decided to bust out that jamming ability of Nadleeh,so I'm willing to bet that not even he cares too much anymore.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I don't think it can be assumed ground forces attempted to advance on the Gundams unless it was actually shown. Evidently they were banking heavily on pilot fatique and the Gundams apparent inability to wade through artillery fire unhindered. At least it would seem artillery and missles can still track faster than the Gundams can move along the ground.

Just because something isn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen. As long as it is not too much of a stretch from established facts, for example just because they dont show the meisters eating does not mean the meisters dont eat food. Considering they showed Kyrios and Dynames being ambushed, it is not out of the realm of possiblity that Virtue and Exia are in a similar situation. The fact that they were rotating mobile suits out of combat because they were at their operation limit means that they are doing something with them. The pilot fatique they were relying on comes from the meisters having to constantly be on alert while being bombarded by their artillery. They are psychologicaly wearing out the meisters, which means they need to keep up the pressure constantly.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

looking back at your previous posts...
For one thing, the thones were indeed connected to Veda, hence how they powered down at first. And if i recall, the miesters managed to gather some information from the thones when they paid a visit to their ship. also, i would have to double check, but i think it was said that the Thrones were made like the gundams with the only difference being the GN drive... based on this, He knew that Nadleeh's power would work, which it did at first... however what he did not know is that he can't fully trust Veda as he did in the past and that his power was not as absolute as he was told it should be; seems fairly obvious that executing Gundams is one of the fuctions of Nadleeh

At best, I'd say he had faith that it would work. It was not a certainty. Actually the evidence of VEDA having been tampered already existed, so that should have given him some concern that it wouldn't have worked, even if the assumption that the Thrones were connected to VEDA was a good one.

And yes, while his cannons can do serious damage we've seen both AEU and HRL Grunts dodge those attacks... more than likely, the thrones would be able to dodge such attacks aswell... and with Sestuna figthing one of the thones, Virtue would have been stuck in a one on two fight and we've seen how grunts have managed to use superior numbers to take down virtue in the past. Really, more than likely, Virtue would have lost that fight...

True, circumstances weren't ideal for them, but the fact is Nena and Johan were a sitting duck and seemed to have completely forgotten about Virtue. Surely aiming and firing would have been a faster response to what they were doing, and even if they weren't destroyed by the attack, he still had Nadeleeh to fall back on.

I think it's well established that Tieria isn't particularly thoughtful and is definiently full of himself, so even if it was dumb, it was at least in character.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Just because something isn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen. As long as it is not too much of a stretch from established facts, for example just because they dont show the meisters eating does not mean the meisters dont eat food. Considering they showed Kyrios and Dynames being ambushed, it is not out of the realm of possiblity that Virtue and Exia are in a similar situation. The fact that they were rotating mobile suits out of combat because they were at their operation limit means that they are doing something with them. The pilot fatique they were relying on comes from the meisters having to constantly be on alert while being bombarded by their artillery. They are psychologicaly wearing out the meisters, which means they need to keep up the pressure constantly.

I think advancing ground forces are something that really needs to be shown for it to exist. And when they mentioned rotating forces, I assume that would mean moving the artillery MSes off the line in order to restock ammo and such. Maybe even give the pilots a break. It would also mean the Gundams never actually faced 1000 suits all at once. Maybe a few hundred at a time as units repositioned themselves and prepared for contingencies.

I still can't believe how light the escorts were. They should have been able to see the Thrones coming, and sortied interceptors, but they didn't for whatever reason.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

seems fairly obvious that executing Gundams is one of the fuctions of Nadleeh

Hmm... This could explain something to the incident involving Gundam Plutone.

Chall the current leader of Fershete was traumatized by it.



As of the latest ep I was right in guessing CB has had a hand in the technological advancement of the day.

One of them owns the elevators so it is not far to assume they have a big slice of pie in all the elevators.

Given that their founder was the one who gave the theoretical basis for the solar elevator technology 200 years before.

I assume they also had a hand in the conceptualization and production of mobile suits and mobile armors.

Its like BSG 2003 line "they have a plan".

Question is what plan?

Eifman just figured it out. Whoever were those in the expedition 120 years ago must have had radical opinions.

Thing is Eifman initially thought it has something to do with space and colonization.

Guess who is going out there?

Saji Crossroad

I think he will resolve this mystery once he is out there in space.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I think advancing ground forces are something that really needs to be shown for it to exist. And when they mentioned rotating forces, I assume that would mean moving the artillery MSes off the line in order to restock ammo and such. Maybe even give the pilots a break. It would also mean the Gundams never actually faced 1000 suits all at once. Maybe a few hundred at a time as units repositioned themselves and prepared for contingencies.

I still can't believe how light the escorts were. They should have been able to see the Thrones coming, and sortied interceptors, but they didn't for whatever reason.

The AEU had Hellions, infact Virtue tried to shoot at them. When they showed the HRL Artillery units they had what looked supplies behind them. It was a given that the Gundams did not face all the suits at once considering they were being rotated in and out of action.

[rpgman1]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Hmm... This could explain something to the incident involving Gundam Plutone.

Chall the current leader of Fershete was traumatized by it.



As of the latest ep I was right in guessing CB has had a hand in the technological advancement of the day.

One of them owns the elevators so it is not far to assume they have a big slice of pie in all the elevators.

Given that their founder was the one who gave the theoretical basis for the solar elevator technology 200 years before.

I assume they also had a hand in the conceptualization and production of mobile suits and mobile armors.

Its like BSG 2003 line "they have a plan".

Question is what plan?

Eifman just figured it out. Whoever were those in the expedition 120 years ago must have had radical opinions.

Thing is Eifman initially thought it has something to do with space and colonization.

Guess who is going out there?

Saji Crossroad

I think he will resolve this mystery once he is out there in space.

Since you read the manga, I have to agree about CB's existence. I thought Laguna Harvey was the one responsible for the orbital elevators. I'm not sure Louise is involved directly since Neena just blasted Louise's family, friends, and relatives out of working too much. Also, when I rewatched this episode, Louise pronounced her last name as Halevy while Kinue found out about Laguna "Harvey". Different last names with different pronunciation.

You know that to make mobile suits requires a huge amount of money, so that is why CB was formed by the founder, and the Observers who have great power over their specialized areas of expertise and huge influx of capital. The biggest problem is CB itself and seems to be split between two sides: those who want to eradicate war and those who want to prolong war. We can already see that from Ali Al Sarshes, who is a warmonger and thrives on living in the moment of battle.

It also seems that the three factions still want to fight to maintain their individuality and representation. CB wants to completely eliminate war and unite the nations as one entity. Unfortunately, people want to retain their individuality and identity so the three factions want to attack CB instead. Sure they joined together temporary until CB is gone, then they'll just go back to fighting each other again.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

You know, WD, for railing so much against Kira and his godmoding, you sure can't spot the fact that Johann and Neena LITERALLY got haxed this episode.

While it is disappointing to see the Thrones go down like that, you have to admit that A) the Throne pilots were tired to some extent (flew from base, crashed the party, hit the US, fought Graham) and THEN fought the Meisters. The Meisters were in *far* worse shape given a similar timeframe of their endurance. Furthermore, it seemed that Johann honestly didn't want to hurt Setsuna, and furthermore, Setsuna would have been *dead* if not for Tieria.

Neena looks bad, but her gundam is a support unit, not some overpowered monster like the SEED or Wing gundams.

Well Johan's Gundam is just weak against other Gundams...I mean you have to have some skill beyond the limitation of Blood-Spray Gundam if you want a chance...Like others have expressed, I guess what makes him look so bad is that he basically looks down on the rest of the meisters yet doesn't have the skills to validate that attitude...Missing arm, only his blood-spray, needing Neena just to do anything productive? Yeah he got haxed alright, it's called a lack of "haxicution"...His only talent seems to lie in some psychological games, which he executed nicely, but he's a fool to take this loss and not convey to his siblings that they need some serious work if they are to achieve anything...They were all hunky-dorey like that a$$ kicking by Tieria's vagina mode didn't even happen (I mean they were owned hard)...With all that said however, he does seem to be somewhat of a pure character since he honestly felt perplexed at why the Gundams would fight him...They are all obviously being manipulated by you know who...As for Neena, Jimmeny F*cking Cricket man that girl needs help...Atleast she did show some dip moves...

Originally Posted by Rampage

That was a flat out awesome episode. Seeing Tieria jump in alongside Setsuna was pretty intense. That fight was great.

I particularly enjoyed the heroic BGM used for Tieria's entrance...Felt like a change in dynamic for him...From stubborn protocol-driven anus, to brother (or sister) in arms...The way he came on the scene just felt right...I too enjoyed it...



Random Question: Anyone getting an EXO-SQUAD vibe from those new suits next week??^^

[Traece]

Back to the whole dropping in to Nadleeh thing... It's a mobile suit with the ability to stop other mobile suits. The Thrones have remote-controlled drones that work in a way that reminds me of Gundam X. Who's to say that the Nadleeh's parts can't return to him and that he's just never felt the need to do so? Think outside the box people, mobile suits... Spaceships... Remote-controlled armor... They're big pieces.
Also back to the thing about not intercepting the Thrones... They did come in quite fast. Even the Gundams didn't know they were there until they got their bonus lives from them.
In any case, I thought the whole Nadleeh moment was kind of cool and logically in the sense that Tieria is full of himself, and as such, has to be as awesome as possible when ending the lives of his foes. Now only if it weren't for those meddeling Observers and their stupid Level 7 control! (What kind of observers interfere? There's a certain magical anime I'm glaring at right now as another perfect example of this... You know who you are!)

[sniperz]

gundam nadleeh would have beaten those two gundam thrones if it werent' for the "grin from those traitor lookalike observers" jeez..

episode 20 shows that they might oso be piloting a gundam too. this is a must see.. it looks very white and i cant slightly get what it looks like.

anybody care to tell whats the new mobile suit in the ep 20 preview? ;0!

[Pride]

Originally Posted by sniperz

gundam nadleeh would have beaten those two gundam thrones if it werent' for the "grin from those traitor lookalike observers" jeez..

episode 20 shows that they might oso be piloting a gundam too. this is a must see.. it looks very white and i cant slightly get what it looks like.

anybody care to tell whats the new mobile suit in the ep 20 preview? ;0!

Wait, off-topic: Are you... sniperz from Ro-G?!

Anyway, it doesn't seem to be a Gundam, looks more like some grunt frame equipped with GN Tau drive.

[KiNA]

One thing that doesnt compute to me .. How does this

Originally Posted by Neena by Shinsen Subs

Haro, report to Lagna

became a confirmed person

Originally Posted by Kinue by Shinsen Subs

So it was Lagna Harvey

I mean.. have she even considered that Lagna = probably a base of sort maybe (like Ptolemaios), or something else, like veda..