Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Of course Suzaku forgave Lelouch just look at this picture from Mutuality

http://www.animepaper.net/gallery/sc...ss/item212388/

The phallic imagery is clear, with Suzaku clearly looking at Lelouch in lust as his about to lick Lelouch's sword

Lelouch may have never had sex with a women but I think he might have had sex with a man.

You just made my day. xD

Originally Posted by Nosauz

lol plz no more of this lelouch is gay stuff plz,

and when I talk about selfishness, I'm talking about selfishness in the suicidal nature, Lelouch basically committed suicide, assisted by none other, Suzaku. No matter how you look at it his "suicide" was meant to dazzle the world, and as Nogitsune said, it was his easy road, because all other roads lead to interaction with more people. If you read my post you would know that I did think Lelouch's death was epic and quite moving but it doesn't change the undertones, and pretext of it either. Lelouch's decided to live a life of suffering, and in the end his entire life was about suffering, compared to living on, death was clearly the "easier" of the may paths he could walk.

*nods her head to that*
It was clearly not the same as if he had commited suiced at any another point of his life, but that doesn't make it something entirely else or the action of a saint.
Lelouch could have stopped to think about how his precious people (especially Nunally) might have wanted him in the peaceful world was going to create, but he only really cared about if they needed him - in the sense someone needs air.
And in my opinion, that's not just because he wanted everyone to be happy.

[Pink-chan]

Basically, it is simple. Lelouch and Suzaku are only 18. Still teenagers but was burdened in the world affairs while the other normal teenagers are enjoying their lives, having fun. They still had a "long" way in their lives. Both understood each other wishes. Both are stubborn and selfish. They knew it themselves. From the Complete, it's stated that they want to punish themselves.

Originally Posted by lijianliang's translation of the Complete book

From Suzaku's character profile page:
"For those two who bear the heavy sin known as killing their fathers, they share the belief that they can forgive each other by imposing the greatest punishments on themselves. Death for Lelouch who wishes for a tomorrow with his sister, life for Suzaku who wishes to atone for his sins through death. Suzaku, who accepts the weight of Zero's mask, gives his gratitude to Lelouch. For the fact that he can atone for his sins. For the results of fulfilling his own wish."

Both boys are foolish is what I can see. That's why we love them. Who would understand other than themselves? They had forgiven each other. We wouldn't want them to do that to themselves.

Originally Posted by translation of Complete vol.42 by Celiss of gamefaq

Okouchi: Exactly. And it's not just about their having mutual interests, either. It's impossible to describe it in a word, but it's a very strong bond. Lelouch as a kid, Lelouch in school, Lelouch as Zero -- only Suzaku sees all of it. Kallen, Nunnally, C.C., even -- none of them sees all of [Lelouch]. Playing together, running away, living, killing each other, even the knowledge of their having killed their own fathers. In terms of revealing who they are, only these two are completely naked. This is probably why the two of them were able to team up in the end.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Pink-chan

Basically, it is simple. Lelouch and Suzaku are only 18. Still teenagers but was burdened in the world affairs while the other normal teenagers are enjoying their lives, having fun. They still had a "long" way in their lives. Both understood each other wishes. Both are stubborn and selfish. They knew it themselves. From the Complete, it's stated that they want to punish themselves.



Both boys are foolish is what I can see. That's why we love them. Who would understand other than themselves? They had forgiven each other. We wouldn't want them to do that to themselves.

*-*
May I hug you?
I completely and utterly agree. And I think I'll save the last quote somewhere...
Beautiful.

[Nosauz]

its a very twisted bildungsroman, from chibi prince to supreme ruler of the world without truly growing up

[SonOfHeaven]

Originally Posted by Pink-chan

Basically, it is simple. Lelouch and Suzaku are only 18. Still teenagers but was burdened in the world affairs while the other normal teenagers are enjoying their lives, having fun. They still had a "long" way in their lives. Both understood each other wishes. Both are stubborn and selfish. They knew it themselves. From the Complete, it's stated that they want to punish themselves.



Both boys are foolish is what I can see. That's why we love them. Who would understand other than themselves? They had forgiven each other. We wouldn't want them to do that to themselves.

So they did forgive each other by punishing themselves. In order for Suzaku to forgive Lelouch, he had to die. For Lelouch to forgive Suzaku, he had to live. Thanks for the quotes. I read Suzaku's profile in complete but didn't really care about it since I didn't remember it. Thanks again.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by Pink-chan

Basically, it is simple. Lelouch and Suzaku are only 18. Still teenagers but was burdened in the world affairs while the other normal teenagers are enjoying their lives, having fun. They still had a "long" way in their lives. Both understood each other wishes. Both are stubborn and selfish. They knew it themselves. From the Complete, it's stated that they want to punish themselves.



Both boys are foolish is what I can see. That's why we love them. Who would understand other than themselves? They had forgiven each other. We wouldn't want them to do that to themselves.

... ;____;

T-Thank you for the quotes. Agreed. Those two really had a fascinating relationship. I'll be BAAAWing in a corner. Again.

;_;

[azul120]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

So they did forgive each other by punishing themselves. In order for Suzaku to forgive Lelouch, he had to die. For Lelouch to forgive Suzaku, he had to live. Thanks for the quotes. I read Suzaku's profile in complete but didn't really care about it since I didn't remember it. Thanks again.

Given that Suzaku questioned Lelouch whether there were alternatives to ZR, I don't think those connections were necessary for forgiveness.

[SonOfHeaven]

Originally Posted by azul120

Given that Suzaku questioned Lelouch whether there were alternatives to ZR, I don't think those connections were necessary for forgiveness.

Maybe, maybe not. End of the day, that's what happened like I initially thought about the forgiveness from Suzaku's standpoint which they both agreed on. Besides we have no idea what alternatives could have happened.

For example, instead of Lelouch dying in front of people. Lelouch will die eating an poisoned apple at the mall. That's an alternative way to go about it. Suzaku never said that he wanted the end result to be different(If he did, let me know).

I don't think Suzaku would forgive Lelouch completely about killing the love of his life. You think otherwise and that's fine.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

Maybe, maybe not. End of the day, that's what happened like I initially thought about the forgiveness from Suzaku's standpoint which they both agreed on. Besides we have no idea what alternatives could have happened.

For example, instead of Lelouch dying in front of people. Lelouch will die eating an poisoned apple at the mall. That's an alternative way to go about it. Suzaku never said that he wanted the end result to be different(If he did, let me know).

I don't think Suzaku would forgive Lelouch completely about killing the love of his life. You think otherwise and that's fine.

Who would think otherwise? Even Shirley didn't completely forgive Lulu but in the end she was still in love with him, despite what he did.

[SonOfHeaven]

Like I said, in order for Suzaku to forgive Lelouch about everything, he had to die(Didn't complete clearly state this) with this punishment. Doesn't mean he absolutely wanted revenge on Lelouch at anytime. They agreed on ZR and what it meant for everyone. Lelouch can't die before the final act of ZR. They can still be friends. I'm through with the current topic here. Tired of repeating myself about Suzaku.

We both have different viewpoints on the matter. I could say why he asked Lelouch if he wanted to go through with it(Asking that question means he wanted Lelouch to live? He seem pretty eagar for Lelouch to continue ZR after Nunnally showed up again. With more emotion showed then than when he asked that question). ZR needed to get done with the both of punishing themselves which the guidebook stated. I'm sure it'll continue going back and forth.

Again different viewpoints on that matter. Agree to disagree in order to drop it.

[willyvereb]

Sry i am lazy...Can anyone list me the sources where officialy stated that Lelouch is dead?

[azul120]

Like I said, in order for Suzaku to forgive Lelouch, he had to die(Didn't complete clearly state this). They can still be friends. I'm through with the current topic.

I don't think that it literally meant that Lelouch had to die for Suzaku to forgive him. Or else, why would Suzaku be protesting for Lelouch to find another answer, or at the final part of the ZR, ask him if he absolutely wanted to go through with the death?

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

I don't think Suzaku would forgive Lelouch completely about killing the love of his life. You think otherwise and that's fine.

I believe Suzaku understood that Lelouch didn't do it on purpose. Not to mention that to not forgive would be hypocritical, since Suzaku himself was guilty of patricide.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

Like I said, in order for Suzaku to forgive Lelouch about everything, he had to die(Didn't complete clearly state this) with this punishment. Doesn't mean he absolutely wanted revenge on Lelouch at anytime. They agreed on ZR and what it meant for everyone. Lelouch can't die before the final act of ZR. They can still be friends. I'm through with the current topic here. Tired of repeating myself about Suzaku.

As i see it, Lelouch wanted to die for all the bad things he did (in his opinion), not only because he killed Euphie. Geassing people is included and c.c. even said in ep25 "because you used geass on people" (something like that).

Plus, in mutuality, we learn that the ZR was not decided during that scene in the end of the ep21 (in the SoA). They talked a lot after that, and then lelouch decided to do it.

Suzaku was already on his side before that the ZR was decided and planned.

[SonOfHeaven]

Originally Posted by Narona

As i see it, Lelouch wanted to die for all the bad things he did (in his opinion), not only because he killed Euphie. Geassing people is included and c.c. even said in ep25 "because you used geass on people" (something like that).

Plus, in mutuality, we learn that the ZR was not decided during that scene in the end of the ep21 (in the SoA). They talked a lot after that, and then lelouch decided to do it.

Suzaku was already on his side before that the ZR was decided and planned.

I agree about Lelouch which was obvious to me.

Of course ZR wasn't decided after that scene during turn 21 since there was an time skip. They had time to talk to agree on ZR which the end result for their punishment and in order to forgive one another.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Who would think otherwise? Even Shirley didn't completely forgive Lulu but in the end she was still in love with him, despite what he did.

What do you mean? I thought Shirley had totally forgiven Lelouch. In fact, that was a big part of her character. She was about forgiveness.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

Of course ZR wasn't decided after that scene during turn 21 since there was an time skip. They had time to talk to agree on ZR which the end result for their punishment and in order to forgive one another.

Well, the most important thing for me, and I was glad when we got the mini stories from Mutuality is that Suzaku accepted to work with Lelouch before the planning of the ZR. So he didn't accept it "because he will kill lelouch".

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

What do you mean? I thought Shirley had totally forgiven Lelouch. In fact, that was a big part of her character. She was about forgiveness.

No, do not think. Be sure about it. It was obvious from her monologue in the end and she said it on Suzaku as well, the same episode. So yep. 8)


Anyway, back on track of the topic.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

No, do not think. Be sure about it. It was obvious from her monologue in the end and she said it on Suzaku as well, the same episode. So yep. 8)


Anyway, back on track of the topic.

Okay Yoda. I just said "think" because I wasn't certain about it. I thought maybe I had missed something. But barring any further planting of a seed of doubt I can safely say with 100% sureness, that Shirley had totally forgiven Lelouch.

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Sry i am lazy...Can anyone list me the sources where officialy stated that Lelouch is dead?

I still didn't have an answer to it...just for curiosity...somehow i have a feeling that maybe still possible that Lelouch alive(it's only matters for Fanfics anyway...there's near to zero chance for R3:P)

[Grey Dawn]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

I still didn't have an answer to it...just for curiosity...somehow i have a feeling that maybe still possible that Lelouch alive(it's only matters for Fanfics anyway...there's near to zero chance for R3:P)

http://community.livejournal.com/cod...s/1178870.html

Heres one, the R2 official guidebook. There are 5 sources confirming it last I heard.