(L) Freezing [Manga]

[dark44]

Originally Posted by Ruki0089

Doubt it... Even though I always wished for it... but I doubt that would happen... Kazuya is too wimp...

it took him 195 chapter to show us his power even if he can have harem he is too beta for it

[DragonOsman]

He even said he'll only make out with Satellizer. That pretty throws all harem possibility out the window unless the other girls can force a harem scenario.

[smbjoshy]

Comic Valkyrie is starting annoy the hell out of me with their release scheduling. Last release was 7/15, was looking forward to the next being today or tomorrow morning (8/19 on their site for their time zone). Nothing new so far, and next release of something is set for 23rd. If nothing tomorrow morning, I'll just keep waiting...

[Sapphire Rhodonite]

@Daedric dishwasher: Freezing is a form of intimacy, described as being a meeting of hearts, and Kazuya's interaction in 196 was described by Ticy, Elly and Arnett as being way better feeling and intimate than anything else in their entire lives. That's why I mentioned intimacy.

I am sorry but PLS has no point. PLS is literally a story dedicated to showing us that different Pandora and Limiters do care for each other. But the main manga has now made it canonical that no matter what anyone does the Pandora will always crave and desire Kazuya more than anyone else, and care for him more. Elly and Andre's years together apparently mean nothing to Elly compared to being Kazuya's slave.

@GendoAizenPig: I highly, highly doubt Gendo will power up the Limiters. He never interacts, speaks or even cares about the Limiters, he clearly only cares about Kazuya and the Pandora, I doubt he even knows the Limiters (This is an over exaggeration I know but it is true he has no contact, interaction or attention to the Limiters at all, they might as well not exist).

I think it's more likely they'll just have the males of this new dimension come through and take the Limiters' place since they're all so much more powerful. But honestly I doubt the author is going to do anything which would threaten Kazuya's position as the self-insert harem character beloved by all females.

@DragonOsman: But like I keep saying it doesn't matter to me if Kazuya wants it, his emotions aren't the ones I'm interested in, what matters to me is does Elly want Kazuya more than she wants Andre? Is Elly more attracted to Kazuya then she is to Andre? Does Elly enjoy being with Kazuya more than she enjoys being with Andre? Is Elly more intimate with Kazuya than she is with Andre? That's what I care about, what do the Pandora think and feel of Kazuya compared to their own Limiters.

Why can't people other than Kazuya fall in love and desire each other more than they desire anyone else? Why can only Kazuya experience genuine love? A world like that is unbearable sad.

[GendoAizenPig]

@Sapphire Rhodonite - That was never said in 196. The Pandora mentioned feeling invincible and a sense of the relief. They mentioned it felt good, but what you're saying is a hyperbole. Elizabeth was resisting said power and said she loved Andre. That's all that was really said. Only other thing I can figure is the translation you read was different from the one I read.

The limiters could power up without Gengo's help in all honesty. The Pandora transcended without him, so the limiters might be able to do the same. I just said he might help. Who knows Maria herself might somehow power them up?

I really don't think you're ever going to get answers that make you happy. Even if this ends with Kazuya marrying Satellizer and saying screw harems I don't think it will be enough. The fact that Elizabeth was a bridesmaid will completely confirm that she still wants Kazuya and ruin the manga ending. What would it take to make you happy with this manga again?

[DragonOsman]

^Yep.

And I don't get how any harem story author just has to be writing a self-insert story with people like you when it's not even set in stone that that's how it is. At least for the True Harem stories I know, it's not like that because the other guys aside from the MC do get noticed and are loved by some of the girls. The MC doesn't get all the girls even though he's being groomed to be a Harem King.

@Robot-Dinosaur: You were worried about Issei stealing Grayfia from Sirzechs? Sirzechs will come back from where he, Azazel and the other God-class beings and their subordinates were going and Issei helps them out (if you don't mind a huge spoiler:

Spoiler for don't open this unless you don't mind being spoiled:

they went into another dimension while taking Trihexa with them and will be fighting it there. Issei is apparently going to go there sometime in the future with a Task Force he'll be leading to help them beat Trihexa so they can come back earlier than expected

). And he also isn't the type of guy who would lay a hand on another man's wife, even if he does fantasize about it (we men don't try to enact what we see in our porn 100%, you know?). Sirzechs will be coming back Grayfia will go back to him. I assure you she won't be in Issei's harem.

Even if Kazuya will have a harem as well, we can't say for sure that all of the Pandora will go to him and leave their Limiters. Aside from what GendoAizenPig said, there's nothing the Pandora said when under the effects of Kazuya's power that might even imply that they love him more than Limiters. Whatever there was was also temporary. They did seek Kazuya out to talk to him, but it was about the power itself and their Limiters went with them to talk to him as well in case you didn't notice. And there are only three girls who actually love Kazuya: Satellizer, Ouka and Rana. None of the others do.

[Sapphire Rhodonite]

@GendoAizenPig: Between 196 and 197 the Pandora express that they wish to 'surrender themselves to Kazuya' that they've 'never felt so warm/fuzzy before' (I forget which one Arnett uses, warm or fuzzy or something like that) and that they are 'obedient servants before their master'. Later on Elizabeth describes it as a process of Kazuya 'stealing her heart'.

I'll admit maybe I was somewhat hyperbolic, and I apologize, but I don't think it diminishes the point very much. It is clear that five seconds of intimate contact with Kazuya was more pleasurable and enjoyable for Elizabeth, Arnett and Ticy than years spent together with André, Morrison and Abel.

Add to this that we have seen how these three react when they create an intimate connection with their former partners; they never have anywhere near as pleasurable or happy a response as they do towards Kazuya.

Without a doubt I think it stands to reason that the most intense happiness, pleasure and intimacy Elizabeth, Arnett or Ticy have ever experienced is with Kazuya. Where else have they ever experienced anything like that? Can you give me examples?

Sorry, I don't mean to say the Limiter's 'can't' level up, as in its impossible, I just really don't think it will happen in the story. I doubt any male character, except for antagonists, other than Kazuya or Gengo will ever be very important or have relationships, it just seems very unlikely to me that the other Limiters will in anyway be empowered or given a role in the story. That is, however, just my opinion.

I really don't think you're ever going to get answers that make you happy. Even if this ends with Kazuya marrying Satellizer and saying screw harems I don't think it will be enough.

But GendoAizenPig, this is my problem, you again don't get what makes me upset. I don't care if the only reason Elizabeth stays with André or Arnett chooses Morrison is because Kazuya rejects them. That isn't love then. A situation in which Elizabeth and Arnett are only not with Kazuya because he rejects them isn't something I want, then I'd rather they never have a 'second-place' relationship with anyone else.

You ask what it would take for me to be happy about this manga again?

1) Not making it that being violated is the most pleasurable experience a woman can have and makes her want to be a slave to her violator.

2) Make it that the Pandora express genuine mutual and exclusive affection, intimacy and invest more time in their relationship with their partners than in their relationships with Kazuya.

3) Don't make the entire process of Pandora and Limiters having spent years creating partnerships and teams through interaction and trust-building be invalidated by Kazuya being able to instantly create a more powerful and intimate bond with all Pandora without even needing to know them.

4) Don't make all Pandora more sexually attracted too, more happy, more content, more euphoric and enjoying more being thralls to Kazuya than having their own consensual relationships.

That's an idealized list, of course, since I highly doubt any of it will ever come true. But if you want to know those would probably be the four most important things to me. But only me. It's just what I personally would like.

EDIT: @DragonOsman: Sorry but...where are the Limiters in Chapter 205? I must have missed them, can you tell me what page so I can re-check? I thought it was just Elizabeth and Arnett meeting him in 205 privately.

[GendoAizenPig]

@Sapphire Rhodonite - The burden of proof falls on you. You're the one saying that it's the best feeling they've ever experienced. This is never stated in the manga. That is all I'm arguing. It doesn't stand to reason anything because we don't have enough information. All those thoughts are you projecting your own frustrations on the story. It isn't fact.

I do understand what you're saying, but you keep completely ignoring the fact that Kazuya's powers forced his control over them through their stigmata. It was mind control. I've stated this plenty of times. They chose their limiters of their own free will. That makes all the difference. All you're listing is more stuff you're projecting. All we know about Kazuya's power is the following, nothing more.

1) It has adrenaline like qualities (Feeling invincible)
2) It provided a huge sense of relief to the Pandora
3) It doesn't effect limiters
4) It doesn't effect valkries
5) It has similar effects to an ereinber set (Feeling fuzzy/good)
6) It gave Kazuya complete control over the Pandora's bodies
7) It forced Transcendence (By far the most important part)
8) It provided some mental contamination (Though this seems to have been temporary)

If there's anything else I missed that was explicitly stated, then I'll add it to the list. All this "best feeling stuff" and "rather being with Kazuya" has never been stated and can't even be logically inferred. Just provide chapter pages where any of this stuff is said and I'll admit that I was wrong. It's really that simple. You keep saying it's clear, but it's apparently not, considering I'm not the only poster that has seen it differently.

[Sapphire Rhodonite]

@GendoAizenPig: I do state that it is the best feeling they've ever experienced, I stand by that, my proof is their desire to 'surrender everything to Kazuya' their feeling of being 'obedient servants before their Master' towards Kazuya as well as their clear arousal and enormous intimate pleasure and Elizabeth's description of it, in 203 I believe, as having felt like Kazuya was 'stealing her heart'.

Putting even aside all their own mental affirmations I also use their physical reactions, intense pleasure, joy, blushing, happiness and arousal as evidence that it was clearly the most intense and pleasurable intimate experience they've ever had.

Can you name a single instance in the canon where Elizabeth, Arnett or Ticy displayed at all similar reactions of happiness, bliss, arousal and joy towards anyone but Kazuya?

The point about Kazuya's Freezing being mind control is something which I actually hope is true, but it'll depend on the execution of it in the story. So far, in the manga, it seems Elly and Arnett are reacting to what happens by spending more time with Kazuya, getting more intimate and close to him and barely ever showing any interaction (let alone intimacy) with their own former Limiter partners.

You say the Pandora of their own free will chose their former partners, well let's see if in the manga, from now on, of their own free will if they ever engage in any kind of interaction or intimacy with them, or will they instead from now on only really be shown interacting, talking and being intimate with Kazuya.

Do you understand how, from the position of someone who likes Elly and Arnett and their relationships with their old partners, a situation in which they're constantly shown only ever meaningfully talking and interacting and being intimate with Kazuya (thinking about how he makes them feel so good, how they want to surrender everything to him) when the other Limiter's don't appear is really depressing?

Also, under your list of what we know Kazuya's Freezing does, I'd add that it literally makes them desire too 'surrender everything they have' to Kazuya as well as feel like 'obedient servants' to him. Those are two pretty big things if we're discussing relationships, they indicate enormous levels of trust and intimacy with Kazuya.

I will try to get the exact page numbers when I can bring myself to read the chapters again, I am sorry about that, I just really don't like reading the chapters at all. But I'll try and get back to you with those. Sorry.

[GendoAizenPig]

@Sapphire Rhodonite - Do you know how many scenes Arnette and Elizabeth have had with Kazuya since he used his power on them and that battle concluded. One Scene in chapter 205 when they went to discuss what had transpired. There was no dialogue and there was at least someone else with them. Creo or Morrison, I can't tell. They're shown on page 22 of said chapter. You know how many Ticy has had with him?...Zero. How is that enough to make a pattern that they're hanging around with Kazuya now? You know how many they've had with their limiters?...One Scene of them Alone with their limiters. So I don't know where the argument they're hanging out with Kazuya more after he used his powers on them came from. It's just straight up false.

There haven't been any sex scenes with Elizabeth, Arnette, and Ticy in them. I can't think about anytime they've been aroused this much because none of them have shown off an Ereinber Set as far as I remember either. I never seen any joy in their faces, no smiles, or anything like that. All I seen was arousal and disgust. Then I seen anger when they tried to murder Kazuya. Elizabeth having her heart "stolen" with the expression she had did not look like pleasure to me. Everything about the way they were drawn suggested it was a disgusting experience for them. I reread these chapters plenty of times and I still don't see it the way you do.

Surrendering everything they have falls under him full controlling their bodies. I already covered it. If that doesn't, then mental contamination does.

Edit - I actually just reread all the chapters again just to check. There are no smiles or anything that in any way resembles bliss or joy. I really think you should take another look at the chapters because a lot of what you're saying isn't even up for debate. It's just wrong.

[amtro]

Do yourself and all of us a favor and drop Freezing, Sapphire. You clearly are not enjoying the manga if you have to force yourself to read the chapters.
This has gotten old. Dozens of pages arguing back and forth ever since Kazuya began using his power.

[Ruki0089]

Lol...
You beat me there, @Amtro...
I'm about to said that myself....

[Ramero]

Kazuya's power was somehow unique. He can unleash the true potential of his allies without side effect and i hope Kazuya can break the limit in a short time for his awakening power that can even command legendary pandora.

[GendoAizenPig]

New RAWs are finally up. It looks like the antagonist of this arc is going to be

Spoiler:

Alternate Dimension Gengo! A bunch of other parallel characters showed up too like Arnette, Creo, Scarlet (I think), Ingrid, and Marin. There's nothing new on the main dimension front at all this month.

All in all I'm starting to warm up to this parallel dimension stuff. It kind of reminds me of Star Gate/Sliders.

[Gespenst1]

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

New RAWs are finally up. It looks like the antagonist of this arc is going to be

Spoiler:

Alternate Dimension Gengo! A bunch of other parallel characters showed up too like Arnette, Creo, Scarlet (I think), Ingrid, and Marin. There's nothing new on the main dimension front at all this month.

All in all I'm starting to warm up to this parallel dimension stuff. It kind of reminds me of Star Gate/Sliders.

Even better, Maria's in the chapter.

[GendoAizenPig]

Really? I must have misidentified her. That's even better.

[Ruki0089]

Gengo vs Gengo?? Woooow~

[DragonOsman]

I'm waiting for Maria to show up, actually. She's the one who brought Kazuya to the other dimension, so the question has to be asked: Where is she, herself?

[Tachibana]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I'm waiting for Maria to show up, actually. She's the one who brought Kazuya to the other dimension, so the question has to be asked: Where is she, herself?

Maria was at the festival herself. The people were saying her name.

[DragonOsman]

I see. So when will she contact Kazuya, then? I hope it's soon, if it hasn't happened already in the RAWs.

Is the latest RAW chapter the only one not translated so far, or are there more?