History`s Strongest Disciple Kenichi (Shijou Saikyou no Deshi Kenichi)

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

I can understand that, but we don't need to be constantly reminded of it every couple months or so. Just let the guy train, fight and get better. Don't keep telling us he'll never catch up to Miu or the the Masters. That's honestly the only real issue I have with this manga. We never get any real signs of Kenichi's growth. If there's an issue, they'll do a training arc to help overcome it, but there's no sense that he's getting any closer to the other fights. It's not just him, though... all the fighters seem to be "stuck" at a certain power level. Miu is just a bit stronger than Kenichi, Kenichi is just a bit stronger than Takeda, etc. Every time you think Kenichi may be able to do something amazing, the Masters prove just how wrong he is and he's back to square one.

I'm not saying that it's true for the whole manga-- there was a lot of growth in the beginning. However, since then, the author has dragged things out and it just sort of stopped.

Logically speaking Kenichi's nearing the absolute end of the road for disciple class. There's only really Kajima to go and maybe Chikage. With Kajima being extremely likely to being stronger than Miu maybe not skill wise but by "heart" as he calls it.

I think what people forget about Kenichi and Miu is that Kenichi actually has a very good chance of beating her in a life and death match. She lacks the guts, determination and will power that he has which is most important thing in a match. It's been out right stated through Kajima that the ranking for the most important things in a fight are Guts>Power>Technique. Miu dwarfs him in technique but he has her beat in guts and power.

I mean the guy beat Sho, and it's arguable if Sho was stronger than her, he certainly wasn't weaker than her at the time.

The guy isn't actually that weak in comparison to her, the manga just constantly makes it seems like it in order to supposedly prolong it's percieved length.

[Merilyn Mensola]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I disagree entirely, Kenichi has shown huge amounts of Growth. The Master's HAVE acknowledged Kenichi's growth, they just don't want him to get a big head over it.

The Kenichi right now can fight on par with Yami's best disciples, when he used to struggle with members of Ragnarok. He rarely even has "come from behind" wins anymore, he usually just outfights his opponents. Being able to stand up to a Master class opponent, even if only barely, is a huge deal, which is why the Masters where secretly very proud of him.

All of the above said, I really don't see Kenichi actually reaching "Master class" so long as the manga is called what it is. Even if Miu is ahead of Kenichi, it isn't a huge gap, especially when you consider that Miu was trained since early childhood, and Kenichi has only had a year of training.

I agree...With everything you said..if Kenichi Use real powers..his is much strong than Takeda...and his can fight on par with Yami's best disceples,after beating Koukin,i think his level is improved very much

[[MrSonic]]

What about Ogata? He used his disciple to test some dangerous techniques for him while fully aware what damage it might do. He's still keeping Ryuto as some "test subject". It seems he doesn't care wether someone is killed as long as it benefits his training/goals. I kind of get a mad scientist vibe from him.

Yeah, Ogata is probably one of most "evil" (and ambitious) YAMI. And his worse side we will probably see when Salaryman finally finds him and we learn why he wants to kill him.

Speaking of Salaryman, what was the chapter where he fought Kenichi? I remember that Ryozanpaku masters told that he was neither disciple nor master class (somewhere in the middle) but it's strange that there are no other characters who fit the same description.

[NoLongerSane]

Originally Posted by [MrSonic]

Speaking of Salaryman, what was the chapter where he fought Kenichi? I remember that Ryozanpaku masters told that he was neither disciple nor master class (somewhere in the middle) but it's strange that there are no other characters who fit the same description.

That would be chapter 370 for the start and 371 for the finish. Also, 371 is where Kenichi as he guy how to get the master's daughter as he himself married his master's daughter.

[ellifeedn]

Originally Posted by [MrSonic]

Yeah, Ogata is probably one of most "evil" (and ambitious) YAMI. And his worse side we will probably see when Salaryman finally finds him and we learn why he wants to kill him.

We already know why Tanaka (Salaryman) wants to kill Ogata. For the record, it's because Ogata killed his master and father (in-law).

[Hisoka??]

Originally Posted by [MrSonic]

Speaking of Salaryman, what was the chapter where he fought Kenichi? I remember that Ryozanpaku masters told that he was neither disciple nor master class (somewhere in the middle) but it's strange that there are no other characters who fit the same description.

Makes sense that there is a middle class, I mean I don't see how you become master class from disciple straightaway. We have already heard that it is virtually impossible for a disciple to beat a masterclass. Just because you have learnt all you can from a master doesn't mean you are a master.

Well, the other alternative is that you are not a master class unless you have/had disciples and since the manga revolves around masters and disciples, it is natural that we don't see much of these.

Speaking of which, what is the requirement to be called a master class? Doesn't seem to be any pre-defined standards. Or is it possible that the requirement of a masterclass is to beat a master?

[Undertaker]

well, typically in traditional Martial Art Novels and Fiction. To be consider a Master, one needs to evolve what one had learned from his/her master(s) and create his/her own style or at least personality.

Keiichi right now has that one combo attack and that one attack that is consider to be master class level. He basically need more of those and effectively be able to mixing all he has learned into a single unique style.

[Shadow5YA]

Considering how well the salaryman floored everyone in the tournament, I thought he would have been considered master level. I was disappointed to find that he was only a disciple when he returned.

[Merilyn Mensola]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

well, typically in traditional Martial Art Novels and Fiction. To be consider a Master, one needs to evolve what one had learned from his/her master(s) and create his/her own style or at least personality.

Keiichi right now has that one combo attack and that one attack that is consider to be master class level. He basically need more of those and effectively be able to mixing all he has learned into a single unique style.

This is, a good point..,because kenichi is Trained by five masters, plus the Elder, once he manages to combine five different styles .. I think it, will be unique,to have this kind of style...

[Magin]

I believe it's been stated that there's a level between disciple and master, that's where salaryman, Kenichi, and probably Miu as well, all fit: expert class (and if you think about it, this is something pretty remarkable- salaryman and Miu have been training for far longer than Kenichi, and while both are a bit above him, Kenichi became expert class in just about a year)

[Merilyn Mensola]

Originally Posted by Magin

I believe it's been stated that there's a level between disciple and master, that's where salaryman, Kenichi, and probably Miu as well, all fit: expert class (and if you think about it, this is something pretty remarkable- salaryman and Miu have been training for far longer than Kenichi, and while both are a bit above him, Kenichi became expert class in just about a year)

Yes...and his started with training without any talent...Kenichi really development very well..,Miu is different,she have been training for until she was a little girl, and she is a prodigy..with more talent,after all, in her body,flows the blood of the strongest man in the world.. Saiga or the Elder?

[ellifeedn]

I wonder where Tanaka's (salaryman's) wife stands.

[NoLongerSane]

Just finished reading scans to 433.

Spoiler for 433:

Very infromative chapter. Starts with Akira facing off and defeating some weapons masters that were working to protect a witness. From the dialog, it would appear that he kills the spear masters but knocks out the government agents due to his code of not killing those that are not martial artist. The scene then changes to back at school to where Tanimoto giving information of who the witness was. It appears that a person was an engineer for YAMI but left the organization, thus earning a hit on his head. We also get appearances from Renka, Chikage, and Rachel as some fanservice ensues. The next scene are at the dojo as Kenichi reports to his masters on what the situation is. As it is found out that Akira is the man sent to hunt down the witness, Sakaki goes of and gives Kenichi an order to stay behind. After Sakaki leaves, Kenichi and Miu leave to follow to experiance what his master is about to partake. The elder is also watching them leave.

[Merilyn Mensola]

Originally Posted by NoLongerSane

Just finished reading scans to 433.

Spoiler for 433:

Very infromative chapter. Starts with Akira facing off and defeating some weapons masters that were working to protect a witness. From the dialog, it would appear that he kills the spear masters but knocks out the government agents due to his code of not killing those that are not martial artist. The scene then changes to back at school to where Tanimoto giving information of who the witness was. It appears that a person was an engineer for YAMI but left the organization, thus earning a hit on his head. We also get appearances from Renka, Chikage, and Rachel as some fanservice ensues. The next scene are at the dojo as Kenichi reports to his masters on what the situation is. As it is found out that Akira is the man sent to hunt down the witness, Sakaki goes of and gives Kenichi an order to stay behind. After Sakaki leaves, Kenichi and Miu leave to follow to experiance what his master is about to partake. The elder is also watching them leave.

433

Spoiler:

we're going to see an 'epic battle,Sakaki is really nervous for this battle,his really cares so much about Kenichi, his go in the fight alone,telling Kenichi to stay in the Dojo, but, in the end, Kenichi and Miu, follow him in secret,and the Elder watch..,i wonder if Kenichi and Miu fighting against the two disciples of Akira,
The moment in the school was really funny, Miu is getting more jealous when Renka embraces Kenichi,would be nice to see a battle between two of them, to grab Kenichi..
And Miu,what to eat to have a breast so bigggg????

[Mizuno]

If Apachai didn't get revived when he fought Agaard, I would expect Sakaki to die here...

And greater than Maestro isn't much of a compliment, I expect him to be lower tier of Yami anyway. We all know in the back of our mind Akira is amongst the strongest in Yami.

[qwertzu]

Something I juste noticed. The guy YAMI is out to kill this time somehow looks like Itoshiki Nozomu from Zetsubou Sensei.

[Hisoka??]

i remember some time back people were complaining that the masters were too invincible. I think this upcoming match and Apachai's answers those doubts.

[qwertzu]

Chapter 434:

So that former Yami guy is actually Zetsubou Sensei ("What if I had died?") and we also get "hocaloid Muku".

Spoiler for 434:

So Miu und Kaniki manage to find Sakaki and accidentaly run into ex-yami guy. Sakaki smashes those knight guys that are with Hongo this time while all passersby think there is a movie being shot ^^".
And finally the fight between Sakaki and Hongo starts (after Hongo stops the last knight from killing Mui and Kenichi).
I so want Hongo to win this one!

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by qwertzu

Chapter 434:

Spoiler for 434:

So Miu und Kaniki manage to find Sakaki and accidentaly run into ex-yami guy. Sakaki smashes those knight guys that are with Hongo this time while all passersby think there is a movie being shot ^^".
And finally the fight between Sakaki and Hongo starts (after Hongo stops the last knight from killing Mui and Kenichi).
I so want Hongo to win this one!

Spoiler for Ch 434:

I hope Godfist wins as well, though if he does, I suspect it will be a "loss" for both sides again, were Sakaki can't fight anymore, but Akira can't finish him off either.

[NoLongerSane]

Just finished reading chapter 434. Also what is it with Matsuena and armor.

Spoiler for Fight 434:

Very interesting chapter. As it has already been stated in qwertzu post, Miu and Kenichi find Sakaki and accidently the YAMI man that they are looking for. Really enjoyed how Miu stopped the guy only to have Kenichi calm her down. I am literally wondering if Matsuena is hinting at another project with all the beuitiful armor art we are seeing. Anyway, it looks like the arms division of YAMI are still under par in power with the Masters of Ryozanpaku. Note of interest, but the guy incharge of the group has armor that looks familiar for some reason. It looks like the fight between monsters start next chapter. Also, I am finding Hongo more interesting every chapter that he is presented in. It looks like he has a code of honor.