Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

And my point, is that Shirley gets shit, whatever the situation is, didn't you get it? 8D

Right. And my point is that if they're cruel enough to do that I'm going to go to O&T's homes and kill their entire families right in front of them. Duh.

Back on Lelouch, like i said, it would eliminate the purpose of the show, to somehow bring him up willingly. This is like, we are getting a timeskip, with Suzaku not living his Zero persona and having hooked up with Kallen. Wildly irrational and totally non-show-ish-OOC? Yep, kind of the point.

The only realistic "solution" i can see, is for the Code to meddle in some way and Lelouch getting a weird kind of resurrection-manifest. Something along those lines.

Anyway, it is all spec, i suppose we have to wait and see.

Yeah, the way I see it is, if it does happen, either Lelouch is brought back to life in order to serve some purpose (his services are needed) or he gets brought back on accident somehow. Either way, it's unwilling.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Right. And my point is that if they're cruel enough to do that I'm going to go to O&T's homes and kill their entire families right in front of them. Duh.

I also, can get that and figure. 8D

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Yeah, the way I see it is, if it does happen, either Lelouch is brought back to life in order to serve some purpose (his services are needed) or he gets brought back on accident somehow. Either way, it's unwilling.

Yep, pretty much what i said as well, glad we came to an agreement. {after such a long time. 8D}

[snowdevil_crow]

Speaking of the possibility for a third series and Lelouch's alive or dead status... I had the most bizarre argument with someone on youtube about the "Lelouch is alive!" theory...

This guy just messages me out of the blue with... okay, copypaste of the message he sent to me:

Spoiler for Length:

I read your post and i know your tired of this argument, but if you will read the following i'm sure you'll be convinced.

Lelouch is alive, and I can prove it. Please ignore all other explanations or conclusions you have been told or have come to yourself for the next few moments. There is a combination of proof and logical assumptions included. If you think a conclusion or assumption you have come to or heard of is logical as well, please understand that I've heard them all, and these are still the MOST likely scenarios. No, Lelouch didn't die to create a perfect world. He faked his death to create a perfect world, AND be alive to ensure it's success. That is the true essence of Lelouch, he cheats, lies, controls, and manipulates in order to achieve his goals. His goal was a better world for nunally at first, then for all the people of the world. So he decieves the world into believing he was an evil person, and that he died. He made the world a better place, but didn't die like all the other characters in anime. That's why he's the greatest character in all of anime.

In Code Geass there are immortal beings who have the ability to grant people a "geass". Once those people master their geass to the full extent, they have the ability to kill the immortal by taking their Code. The Code is what grants immortality, and the ability to grant geass. If you do not agree, skip this explanation as you have not even payed attention to the anime, and your opinion holds no value.

1. Lelouch is immortal.
Lelouch became immortal when he went to the world of C the second time.
How?
His father was there, who had become immortal. Lelouch, who had used his geass many times had mastered it, and that's evident by his geass' spreading to his second eye. Because of this, he was able to steal his father's code, and essentially "kill" the emperor.

2. CC talks to Lelouch
CC talks to Lelouch in a scene after his death and the thoughts of his friends.
What?
When CC is on the cart, she talks a little bit, then tilts her head towards the driver, and says,"Right, Lelouch?". She was definitely talking to the driver, in that frustrating anime style that many viewers fail to recognize. CC is smiling when this whole thing happens, something she usually does ONLY when she's thinking/talking to Lelouch. Also, she's always emo all the other times in the anime. But because lelouch is immortal, he lives with CC just like he promised, and CC no longer has to want death, but can live to be with him forever.

3. How do you know that the driver is Lelouch?
Some people say CC is talking to the sky, or to heaven, where Lelouch is supposedly dead.
(To this I can only type LOL)
As mentioned in #2, CC is talking to the driver anime style. The driver can only be leouch. Why? Well, other than the fact that she called him Lelouch, the driver has his whole head concealed. Why would anyone do this in a peaceful world? The ONLY logical answer is that the driver is the hated emporer of late, Lelouch Vi Britannia.

4. Want hard evidence?
Some people still say all this is speculation, and that only the facts that CC is smiling and Charles was killed can be actual facts.
(Oh?)
Early in the anime series, Nunnally gives her brother Lelouch a pink origami crane, which was taught to her by the japanese maid. This origami crane can be found on the cart next to CC. You may say "it's CC's to remind her of Lelouch". But let's be logical. That crane was a special keepsake to Lelouch, and it's very very doubtful that he even showed it to anyone else beforehand. Logic dictates that he's alive and takes that origami around with him to remind him of Nunnally, while he lives forever with CC.

If you really believe that Lelouch is dead, despite reading the above explanation, then I gladly tell you that you are wrong. You cannot call yourself a true fan. Please ruin some other anime.

If you believe the above explanation, I congratulate you on becoming an enlightened fan of Code Geass, one who is able to see the genius behind the whole series. I encourage you to copy this email, and send it to anyone who still doubts that Lelouch is alive.

....

Yeah. I. Um. *scratches head* Apparently he found me from a "LELOUCH IS ALIVE" video I commented on several months ago... uh.

I messaged him back and argued with him and stuff. And then he called me a conspiracy theorist.

...

o.0

Anyway. Yeah. Uh. I read a fanfic where Lelouch was used as some sort of battery charger for a Knightmare or something, after having become immortal. It was kind of awesome. There's something strangely hot about Lelouch being covered in his own blood...

[Narona]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

I messaged him back and argued with him and stuff. And then he called me a conspiracy theorist.

...

o.0

Anyway. Yeah. Uh. I read a fanfic where Lelouch was used as some sort of battery charger for a Knightmare or something, after having become immortal. It was kind of awesome. There's something strangely hot about Lelouch being covered in his own blood...

Once the writer, Okouchi, said that Lelouch is dead ; then the debate mostly ended. It's the main writer after all.

Arguing about him being brought to life again, imo, could make sense because Lelouch was dead and then came back. But arguing that he didn't die in the ep25 is really hard since Okouchi said it once and for all: Lelouch died.

[snowdevil_crow]

This person has claimed that "The directors are just lying, they've done it before so they're doing it again" among other things.

I just... I'm not sure if it's a troll or what. It's just so bizarre.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

This person has claimed that "The directors are just lying, they've done it before so they're doing it again" among other things.

I just... I'm not sure if it's a troll or what. It's just so bizarre.

By "the directors", he means some other directors. Those people are not okouchi, nor Taniguchi. So that argument is wrong.

Maybe they will do it just like that, but till now, those two, but maybe i'm wrong, have not lied to their fans.

[snowdevil_crow]

No, he seriously claims that Okouchi and Taniguchi are lying.

And when I said "no, that would be pointless" he told me I'm a conspiracy theorist.

o.O

Because I remember that Nunnally was listed officially as dead, once, wasn't she? I don't know if Okouchi and Taniguchi were in charge of that, though. But in this case, there is really no reason, and anyway they'd had this planned since day one, apparently. So... yeah.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

Because I remember that Nunnally was listed officially as dead, once, wasn't she? I don't know if Okouchi and Taniguchi were in charge of that, though. But in this case, there is really no reason, and anyway they'd had this planned since day one, apparently. So... yeah.

On the official website, but the ones who were maintening it were not Okouchi, nor Taniguchi.

[snowdevil_crow]

ohh... kay, gotcha.

So, basically, this guy isn't just dead wrong, he's dead wrong x 2.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

ohh... kay, gotcha.

So, basically, this guy isn't just dead wrong, he's dead wrong x 2.

The webmaster of the official site is at fault imo.

Now people can still argue that the CG staff sent the info to him, and that he updated the website with it.

But still, there's no proof of that. And this youtube guy is not smart enough to see that if you closely look at the episode in which Nunnally is supposed to have died, you can deduce clearly that she was not in the same shuttle. Many people like Kaio pointed that out here on AS at that time.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

Speaking of the possibility for a third series and Lelouch's alive or dead status... I had the most bizarre argument with someone on youtube about the "Lelouch is alive!" theory...

This guy just messages me out of the blue with... okay, copypaste of the message he sent to me:

Spoiler for Length:

I read your post and i know your tired of this argument, but if you will read the following i'm sure you'll be convinced.

Lelouch is alive, and I can prove it. Please ignore all other explanations or conclusions you have been told or have come to yourself for the next few moments. There is a combination of proof and logical assumptions included. If you think a conclusion or assumption you have come to or heard of is logical as well, please understand that I've heard them all, and these are still the MOST likely scenarios. No, Lelouch didn't die to create a perfect world. He faked his death to create a perfect world, AND be alive to ensure it's success. That is the true essence of Lelouch, he cheats, lies, controls, and manipulates in order to achieve his goals. His goal was a better world for nunally at first, then for all the people of the world. So he decieves the world into believing he was an evil person, and that he died. He made the world a better place, but didn't die like all the other characters in anime. That's why he's the greatest character in all of anime.

In Code Geass there are immortal beings who have the ability to grant people a "geass". Once those people master their geass to the full extent, they have the ability to kill the immortal by taking their Code. The Code is what grants immortality, and the ability to grant geass. If you do not agree, skip this explanation as you have not even payed attention to the anime, and your opinion holds no value.

1. Lelouch is immortal.
Lelouch became immortal when he went to the world of C the second time.
How?
His father was there, who had become immortal. Lelouch, who had used his geass many times had mastered it, and that's evident by his geass' spreading to his second eye. Because of this, he was able to steal his father's code, and essentially "kill" the emperor.

2. CC talks to Lelouch
CC talks to Lelouch in a scene after his death and the thoughts of his friends.
What?
When CC is on the cart, she talks a little bit, then tilts her head towards the driver, and says,"Right, Lelouch?". She was definitely talking to the driver, in that frustrating anime style that many viewers fail to recognize. CC is smiling when this whole thing happens, something she usually does ONLY when she's thinking/talking to Lelouch. Also, she's always emo all the other times in the anime. But because lelouch is immortal, he lives with CC just like he promised, and CC no longer has to want death, but can live to be with him forever.

3. How do you know that the driver is Lelouch?
Some people say CC is talking to the sky, or to heaven, where Lelouch is supposedly dead.
(To this I can only type LOL)
As mentioned in #2, CC is talking to the driver anime style. The driver can only be leouch. Why? Well, other than the fact that she called him Lelouch, the driver has his whole head concealed. Why would anyone do this in a peaceful world? The ONLY logical answer is that the driver is the hated emporer of late, Lelouch Vi Britannia.

4. Want hard evidence?
Some people still say all this is speculation, and that only the facts that CC is smiling and Charles was killed can be actual facts.
(Oh?)
Early in the anime series, Nunnally gives her brother Lelouch a pink origami crane, which was taught to her by the japanese maid. This origami crane can be found on the cart next to CC. You may say "it's CC's to remind her of Lelouch". But let's be logical. That crane was a special keepsake to Lelouch, and it's very very doubtful that he even showed it to anyone else beforehand. Logic dictates that he's alive and takes that origami around with him to remind him of Nunnally, while he lives forever with CC.

If you really believe that Lelouch is dead, despite reading the above explanation, then I gladly tell you that you are wrong. You cannot call yourself a true fan. Please ruin some other anime.

If you believe the above explanation, I congratulate you on becoming an enlightened fan of Code Geass, one who is able to see the genius behind the whole series. I encourage you to copy this email, and send it to anyone who still doubts that Lelouch is alive.

....

Yeah. I. Um. *scratches head* Apparently he found me from a "LELOUCH IS ALIVE" video I commented on several months ago... uh.

I messaged him back and argued with him and stuff. And then he called me a conspiracy theorist.

...

o.0

Anyway. Yeah. Uh. I read a fanfic where Lelouch was used as some sort of battery charger for a Knightmare or something, after having become immortal. It was kind of awesome. There's something strangely hot about Lelouch being covered in his own blood...

Hahahaha... that is the most inane argument ever. Not only is that the most common crap arguments that was common after Episode 25 Aired. That was nothing new, just more weak arguments.... Ooy.... And then he calls you a conspiracy theorist for taking what is shown on screen at face value while he is going all "grassy knoll!" on ya? XD lol...

[snowdevil_crow]

I think the best part was "the origami crane is hard factual proof" and how he tried to prove that.

I... wtf, that didn't even make sense. xD

@ Narona --- I was too busy going wtf over that episode to notice XD And, um, laughing at Lelouch's expression...

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Orga777

It would be a bad move because while he gets off scott free, everyone else he knows gets kicked in the face. Suzaku can't be himself anymore and is stuck behind a mask for the rest of his life. Nunnally has to live in a world where her beloved brother is gone and she would never know that he is alive and is stuck ruleing a superpower. Kallen will never be able to get her felings requeited and will never fully be able to move on from Lelouch and how much he changed her. And for these characters it is a bitter sweet ending. Having Lelouch live makes his sacrifice worthless in my eyes and any type of sympathy I had towards the character would probably evaporate. He was redeemed in my eyes because of his selfless death. Bringing him back will reverse my stance back to what it was before Zero Requeim.

Everyone else? There were a ton of people who got off scot free, the exceptions of course being the ones you mentioned. And I'm pretty sure Lelouch would be dumbfounded if he were to find himself resurrected.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

@ Narona --- I was too busy going wtf over that episode to notice XD And, um, laughing at Lelouch's expression...

I didn't notice it either the first time that I watched it. But since that time, that youtube guy should be aware of what I was talking about.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

No, he seriously claims that Okouchi and Taniguchi are lying.

And when I said "no, that would be pointless" he told me I'm a conspiracy theorist.

o.O

Because I remember that Nunnally was listed officially as dead, once, wasn't she? I don't know if Okouchi and Taniguchi were in charge of that, though. But in this case, there is really no reason, and anyway they'd had this planned since day one, apparently. So... yeah.

His not a troll

His an idiot

Simply put even ignoring the Guide, and Okouchi's interviews the actions Lelouch X C.C shippers give (and nearly all of them are that) are simply not things Lelouch would do.

Lelouch would never abandon Nunnaly, and Kallen so he can have sex with C.C in the hayloft. Oh sure they claim that "Lelouch will watch over mankind for repentance" but it's pretty clear that what they really want is for their favorite couple to be made official.

On the other hand Lelouch's actions as given by the Guide makes perfect sense. Lelouch despises his actions, he despises himself, he hates what he did to innocent people who where just doing their job. So he sets it up that when he dies the world is made a better place. Lelouch didn't die just to make the world a better place, he commited assisted suicide to repent for all he did.

His not Jesus Christ no matter how much his fanbase wants him to be.

[snowdevil_crow]

ugh, seriously, people like that give us LuluCC-lovers such a bad name. :/

I wonder if they even paid attention to Lelouch's character at all.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Simply put even ignoring the Guide, and Okouchi's interviews the actions Lelouch X C.C shippers give (and nearly all of them are that) are simply not things Lelouch would do.

Saying that just like that is mere trolling about c.c.xlelouch fans.

If you can't provide any proof about what you say, just don't say it.

[Laurcus]

We've already established that i'm crazy for sure but that youtube guy is bonkers lol. The crane being used as hard evidence is just stupid Nunnaly showed C.C. how to make them paper cranes in the first season. So one could simply counter argue that C.C. made the crane, and maybe the cart driver was wearing a wide brimmed straw hat to cover his head because it was sunny out lol. I would like to think Lelouch is alive, and i feel that if you just take the series as is with no guide book or words from writer interviews then you could make the case for he is alive. Either way i still want to know how a code transfer happens, and if Lelouch didn't become immortal then what stopped the code transfer from taking place? As far as I know all of the "known" conditions were met.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Narona

Saying that just like that is mere trolling about c.c.xlelouch fans.

If you can't provide any proof about what you say, just don't say it.

I don't remember a single holdout that wasn't a C.C X Lelouch shipper. Frankly I could care less what you ship, I care more about your opinion on the show itself.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I don't remember a single holdout that wasn't a C.C X Lelouch shipper.

I know quite a few from German forums... where people somehow don't seem to care all that much about shipping.
So it's no surprise I have no idea what most of them ship, but I only recognized some shounen-ai lovers and "don't really care about pairings" people amongst the "I still don't think he's dead" fans.
And then there's me, who acknowledges the Word of God, but still thinks the ending looks open as hell and therefore pats those people on the shoulder if they have interesting arguments. xD