2010-09-04, 14:56 | Link #4282 |
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I've always wondered about the differences and similarities between magic and esper abilities as well, and why the two seem, for the most part, to be mutually exclusive. Magic utilizes arrays or spells to summon power supposedly from a higher plain, while espers utilize their AIM fields to "project their own reality".
The esper side is referred to as the science side and is regulated by scientific principles, but in reality, the only reason the magic side is referred to simply as the magic side is because the abilities magicians use aren't scientifically documented or explained (yet). I'm willing to bet there are scientific mechanics guiding magic just as there are for espers, just a different set that may or may never be explained or revealed. I've asked before, but I wonder what the difference between an esper's flame and a magician's flame is on the most basic of levels. Do pyrokinetics project a flame from their AIM field spontaneously, or do they speed up the particles in the air, creating friction, and thus fire (the latter would be a far more scientific method than the first; the first explanation wouldn't seem, to me at least, to be any more explainable than magic)? As for a magician's flames, are they created similarly through the array/spell creating friction, or do magicians simply manifest/summon them from a "higher plane"? I suppose Stiyl's Innocentius would fit the latter description, though is it truly a "monster" or just a mass of flame capable of being manipulated? Last edited by oldmanpoo; 2010-09-04 at 15:54. |
2010-09-04, 15:58 | Link #4283 | |
less qq; more pewpew
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Spoiler for Reply to oldmanpoo:
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2010-09-04, 16:29 | Link #4284 | ||
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im pretty sure accel and maybe Kakine can go on a successful "instance" as long as Fianma isnt there XD
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2010-09-04, 20:43 | Link #4286 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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As for Aiwass, I wouldn't say it's the outright top...top tier yes but not top. And top tier only because it makes Black Wings Accel look like nothing and is more powerful than Hyouka herself. How it fares compared to Gabriel or Fianma is unknown. So any of these three (so far) could be the top. Quote:
And yes, Hyouka could harm Gabriel. That's why Accel assisted by deflecting her attacks onto it. Accelerator himself was nothing to Gabriel, he couldn't even deflect the Sweep.
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2010-09-04 at 21:13. |
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2010-09-04, 21:26 | Link #4287 | |
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Combine that with 'Personal Reality' and how a esper's level is dependant on how much they can bring their personal reality into the 'objective reality' (for a lack of better term), A esper create fireballs, thundershocks etc from their AIM field that overwrites 'normal' reality. It can be argued all espers are in a way 'Reality Warpers' to a small extent, overwriting the world with their own 'delusions', so to speak. |
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2010-09-04, 21:54 | Link #4289 |
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Do you think that the esper's ability to create their own "personal reality" comes from an outside source? I remember that right before Kakine died he realized where his "Dark Matter", which did not exist in our world, was coming from, or in other words realized that his "personal reality" had a source. Is it possibly like that for all espers?
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2010-09-04, 21:57 | Link #4290 | ||
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Compare this with Magic, where it's pretty much 'draw this rune to manipluate fire' or 'do X to get result Y', but they don't tell you why this is the case. Mostly magicians just chalk it down to 'I'm borrowing power from God/angel/some other supernatural source', knowing what works to channel these powers but normally leave the details out of it. Quote:
For all intents and purposes, Kakine creates his 'Dark Matter' out of his AIM field, according to Vol15 Ch4; at least that's how I see it. Last edited by Flere821; 2010-09-04 at 22:07. Reason: Double post |
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2010-09-04, 22:14 | Link #4291 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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But no...I think it more likely that humans have innate powers, kind of like Angels but to a lesser extent seeing as they are God's creations as well. Gather enough of that power in one being and you get an AIM Angel.
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2010-09-04, 22:29 | Link #4292 |
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Suppose it comes down to the degree to which something is understood to be dubbed scientific.
Seems strange though. Considering Aiwass is the one who taught Aleister Crowley magic and (I believe) how to write The Book of the Law, which is a spellbook, she's utilizing AIM fields to manifest in Academy City. Makes it difficult to place her on any one side (magic/science), though she seems to favor Aleister's plans. Makes me think both sides are intertwined in some way. Speculation on my part. |
2010-09-04, 23:24 | Link #4293 | |
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About the book, I think the same, Aleister is just using his magic theory on science which he got from Aiwass. |
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2010-09-05, 00:43 | Link #4295 |
オンドリャァァァ!!!
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Aiwass certainly has some interest in what Aleister is doing. It is somewhat fun after all. But Aiwass is completely unaffected by the out, he neither support or work against it. He simply tweaks it in the that can entertain him.
Looking back at Index's comment when Fuse=Kazakiri appeared for the first time, this really should be the case. At least, I think ESP power has the same methodology as magic. But generated using different types of hardware that runs on different energy. |
2010-09-05, 00:59 | Link #4296 | |
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now my physics aint too hawt but i guess maybe somethin like a new element with the same atomic number as an already existing element (current physic laws say only one element can exist with one atomic number no?) and lol reading chapter 8 part 1 and 2of vol 21. interesting, gabriel seems to attack by flying directly into the ground russian and AC troops a la little meteorite (the novel even describes her as a little meteorite XD) and (cant really tell with my horrible chinese) Carissa, Grand master knight and maiden of versailles along with their army are all in russia? coz carissa just knocked gabriel out of the sky in russia from 3000 metres up oO and carissa and maiden of versaille suddenly appeared and are now tag teaming it. (their dialogue is quite funny, the girls calling each others barbarians) apparently gabriel has some sort of "harden" skill, carissa and MoV were chopping its wings to pices but then it put its palms together and they couldnt chop it any more
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2010-09-05, 01:05 | Link #4297 | |
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I really don't understand Aiwass and Aleister so I would leave them be on what they want to do.
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Before it would be forever clouded in mystery (persona 4 ) I would like to clear that Accelerator in Black wings mode.... his black wings are composition of telesma . Someone confirm this so reread past post. But when Index saw this she said that it's the same as saint's nature. So YES!!! their are chances but why telesma? As for kakine too. When he realized it. But from what source that comes from.... well his been killed before it's been cleared but Accelerator despite having a sheer force of AIM. Him in Black wings mode had the power house or source of the same as the angels Telesma. I'm not sure on Fuze=Kazakiri because........... Index saw it and understand some parts of it being an ANGEL but because it's been modified by science thus she's an artificial angel.
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2010-09-05, 01:20 | Link #4298 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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But if Black Wings are Telesma how the hell does Accel not disintegrate or something when his AIM field is second only to Hyouka and Aiwass?
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2010-09-05, 01:31 | Link #4299 | |
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but on the other hand, accelerator was unable to harm gabriel effectively, does this mean that Accel's AIM is not strong enough to hurt gabriel or maybe its because his wings are telesma, so his attacks are the same type as gabriel and so are ineffective?
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2010-09-05, 01:55 | Link #4300 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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action, dengeki bunko, fantasy, light novels, science fiction, shounen |
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