2014-06-01, 14:32
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Link #4341 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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If you like you could post more of your impressions while reading the visual novel. Us veterans love to read those impressions. It is a way for us to relive the experience again and see how other people's experience differ from our own. |
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2014-06-01, 16:25
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Link #4342 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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I guess it's kinda like the difference between reading a comic book and watching a comic book movie. With comic books, there's a more 'personal' feeling to it as you turn each page of tantalizing scenes at your own page, whereas with movies, the pacing is decided by the director. With the choices given in the game (not to mention those bad ends), and with me being the one that moves the story forward with each of my mouse-clicks, there's just a more engaging feeling with the visual novel, whereas the anime lacked that flavor of excitement. Like I said, abstract and opinionated stuff so... *shrugs* Just treat it as my two-cents. Anyway, I'm rambling at this point. Sorry'bout that.  Quote:
So, my impression... (Lengthy read ahead, but who am I kidding? You read through F/SN ) Well, for starters, I really like the improvements to the game mechanics since Type-Moon's earlier visual novel, Tsukihime. There were obviously a few new stuff added since Tsuki, such as the 'Combat Status' menu screen, the 'Tiger/Bad End Stamp' counter (I think Tsuki had a counter too, but nothing as interesting as 'The Tiger Stamp'), and of course, the addition of voices to the game as opposed to Tsuki's lack of voices, which was always a major turn-off for me (but I'm superficial like that, so don't mind me ). I think the voices really added a level of engagement for Fate that I didn't experience with Tsuki.Also, I'll honestly tell you that I wasn't expecting this much fun when I decided to give this game another chance a couple of days ago. I dropped the game a long time ago merely after playing till Day 2 of the prologue, but recently, my interest (and patience) in visual novels was ignited once again. I don't read books at all, and I have a pretty short attention span, so I didn't have high expectations when returning to Fate once more. I did, however, make a promise to myself that I was going to finish the VN no matter what due to the game's global acclaim, so I was expecting to force myself through hours of text-reading no matter how bored I might be... But then, that OP after the prologue came along and really drew me in. I wasn't expecting the OP at all because my copy of Tsuki didn't have a 'proper OP song' (it was more like a monologue narrative sequence?), so I had thought that Type-Moon doesn't do OPs. What a surprise it was for me; Saber appeared, her sword pointing at Rin, cue OP. This build-up to the main menu of Fate was done so well in that aspect such that, from that point onward, my impression for the story improved a whole lot more. The first few hours of the game after the prologue and the main menu screen weren't as bad as I had expected. I always found myself not enjoying Tsukihime as much as I enjoyed Key VNs, not because it was poorly written (Type-Moon is obviously the more superior writer), but because it was one of those 'serious mature' stories (Ghost in the Shell, Monster, etc.) that you will have to devote yourself to (unless you enjoy serious mature stories, of course). With Fate, however, I didn't really run into that problem. I'm not sure why exactly. Maybe it has to do with the more mainstream nature of the plot, the better-drawn CGs, the added voices, but I'm going to have to say that it's definitely the story and the universe that set Fate apart from Tsuki for me, in terms of their enjoyability. My memory's a bit blur but, IIRC, Tsuki was about the protagonist helping the main heroine solve the problem of fighting off the vampire that's hunting people in the city (the guilt-trip of accidentally slicing her up certainly helped as a motivation). Fate, on the other hand, was a battle royale between historical/mythical heroes. Naturally, the latter was much more interesting for me, and the more I explored that universe, the deeper I was immersed in it. Furthermore, Fate has a Queen Arthur and Hercules battling it out! How could you compete with that level of fun? But to be fair to Tsuki, Fate has a highly acclaimed anime prequel that really influenced me into giving the game another shot, while the Tsuki remake is still years away from last I heard. Sorry that I keep on turning this impression-post into a Tsukihime vs. Fate comparison rant, but if I have to talk about my impression of F/SN, I definitely have to talk about Tsuki, because playing Fate really blew my mind about my past impressions of Type-Moon. If it's any consolation at this point, 1) I don't think Tsuki is a terrible story, I just wasn't interested in it, and 2) this here ends my Tsuki/Fate comparison. The things that really drew me to the game were the OP and the interesting universe, but the things that kept me playing, on the other hand, were the couple of interesting characters, one of whom was Emiya Shirou. I have always been a big fan of self-sacrificing idealists like Spider-Man and Captain America, but there was a more recently created character that a certain Fate/Zero-writer had a hand in... That's right, it was Miki Sayaka, my avatar and sig. So when I read about Shirou and his personality, it's not that difficult to grow fond of him, considering his resemblances with Sayaka. To be honest though, the character that really got me to stick around was Saber. Initially, when I didn't know much about her backstory, I found her to be quite blend of a 'stoic' character. When I later found out who she really is, she became a character much more interesting than Shirou for me, not because she has any ideals that were more appealing to me than Shirou's ideals, but because I wanted to know more about the pains and struggles of a female 'King' in the chauvinist medieval times. I'm up to the point of the game where Saber's backstory is beginning to be explained (after her victory over Rider), and from what I read of King Arthur's bio in the 'Status' menu, it's pretty interesting stuff so far. I can't wait to learn more about Saber's history in medieval England. The other characters are pretty fun, but I don't have as much emotional investment for them at this point. And yet, they are a bunch of some of the most interesting characters I've seen for a while; Ilya, Hercules, Rider, and Caster specifically. Also, I have to say, Fuji-Nee's 'Tiger Roar' made me laugh every, single, time. Everytime she comes on screen, I'll be expecting another comedic moment from her, as she's one of the most enjoyable gag characters I've seen so far.  But I think I'll cut my impression talk up till this point for now. Sorry that I've rambled as long as I had. I'll be sure to drop in every now and then and share any further impression of the game. 
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Last edited by OminousFlare; 2014-06-01 at 16:41. |
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2014-06-01, 17:19
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Link #4343 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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One of the things I like about F/SN is how it examines the ideal of wanting to be a hero of justice. At first it looks like Shirou is a very flat character, but by making him struggle with his ideal over multiple routes he because a much richer character. This doesn't fix all of Shirou's character faults, but does help a lot. The ideal in it self is an admirable one, but like many ideals it doesn't hold up when confronted with reality. A visual novel is in this aspect a very good medium to examine the topic. A problem with the anime was that it left out too much of Shirou's internal struggle and was only able to show one of Shirou's answers concerning his ideal. This reminds me, have you seen the Unlimited Blade Works movie? If you haven't, you are in for a treat, being able to read the UBW route unspoiled. |
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2014-06-01, 17:47
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Link #4344 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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By the way, is the Realta Nua voice patch for the PC version complete? I got to the part where Rin suggested for Shirou to 'do the deed' with Saber, and the voices kinda stopped there. Must be an old patch I'm using, so I'm going to update with the new one, but just so I know... the voices for the PC version don't stop there, right? It would be very disappointing if they do... :/
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2014-06-01, 18:38
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Link #4345 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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2014-06-01, 18:46
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Link #4346 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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It just scared me a little when the voices were suddenly absent.By the way, was there ever a Fate/Zero VN release? I see none by Type-Moon on VNDB but, it would be fun to read a Fate/Zero VN.
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2014-06-01, 19:29
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Link #4347 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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When the anime aired, after having seen an episode I would often read the corresponding chapters. By doing this I made sure I didn't miss anything which was skipped in the anime. Fate/Zero is a very good adaption, making this method not really necessary, but it does clarify some things and makes the story a bit richer in details. I will PM you the link to the translated light novel. |
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2014-06-02, 11:42
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Link #4348 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Wow. Okay, so a couple of things happened since I last posted, so be ready for spoilers for those who haven't played yet. But since the thread title's one big spoiler tag, I won't be using one for the following post.
Quite a lot of things happened after Saber's battle with Rider, but I want to keep this post short, so I'll only mention the more memorable stuff that had the most emotional impact. The thing I really want to talk about today though, is Gilgamesh. Before I played the game, I've heard a couple of things about him... and let's just say I already disliked him, much more than Caster, whom I also encountered in the game a while ago. I'm sure all of you should know by now that the rumors revolving round Gilgamesh involve a certain... sexual fetish for Saber. To put it without poor taste, he wants to dominate Saber. And well, I always had problems dealing with such a fetish due to personal issues, so when I first saw Gil half an hour ago in the game, I was naturally uncomfortable with his presence. To put it bluntly - he disgusts me. Phew. There, I said it. I couldn't stand just being in the same room with him, let alone the same game. And that's related to the thing I wanted to talk about - Saber's feminine nature. Saber's gender was probably the thing that intrigued me the most about her character, being a woman in medieval times. I'm quite the chauvinist myself, so my perspective might be biased and skewed, but I just have a hard time wrapping my head around a 'female king,' let alone one who could operate without anyone complaining or rebelling due to his gender. I'm sure you guys should know how females are treated in medieval times, especially if you've ever read Berserk or A Song of Ice and Fire. So it does fascinate me quite a bit how Arturia was treated back in the day. But at the same time, I'm kinda uncomfortable about finding out. Having seen a couple of scenes from Fate/Zero, and this might be an error on my part but, I thought I saw Gilgamesh in the Fate prequel. Furthermore, I also saw him in one of the screenshots of the game... and let's just say what he said in that screenshot was less than tasteful ('deflowering,' if you will). Ugh. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that, while I do want to know what Arturia's life was like back then, I'm not sure I would be that comfortable if it has a lot of disgusting chauvinistic aspects in it. Saying that I hate such aspects would make me a hypocrite, I won't deny that, but it's just... personal reasons, why I'm not comfortable with such things. Anyway, I know such things are mature and heavy topics perfectly suitable for a grown-up story like Fate/Stay Night, and they certainly would make the story much more psychological (just as I've heard people described Fate/Zero as, "psychological"). But I just wanted to put these thoughts of mine out here, see what you think.
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2014-06-02, 15:08
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Link #4349 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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Gilgamesh is an interesting character. His arrogance makes him easy to hate and also very entertaining. I can't say to much yet without spoiling stuff, but if you keep reading all your questions about Gilgamesh will be answered. |
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2014-06-02, 17:21
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Link #4352 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Btw... I've reached Bad End #13... F***... affection points not high enough. At first I thought it was due to choosing 'go down the stairs' as opposed to 'go home', thus leading one hell of a lengthy, dragged out Bad End, but no such luck (would have been more interesting if there was such an elaborate bad end though). GAH! Now I have to go back and replay the whole damn thing again... Wish this game has like a 'chapter selection' screen or something. I did save between each 'Day', but to accumulate those affection points, I have to play from the first affection point decision and skip all the way to Day 15, which will involve a lot of scene-skipping. Gah... Edit: Okay, I checked. Looks like I'm only short of one point to surpass that Bad End... I think. So all I have to do is pick the last SaberPoint decision I failed to choose... which is Day 11, so it isn't that far off.
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2014-06-02, 17:23
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Link #4353 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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2014-06-02, 19:58
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Link #4354 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Nearing the final battle. I cheated a little bit by using the flowchart but, before I read it, I decided to choose to give Saber back her sheath. Looks like it's the right decision according to the chart, as opposed to the less sensible 'strengthening' and 'look for weapon' options.
Final epic battle is going to start... and then Shirou had to kill the mood. "People die when they are killed."  I know what he meant by that is different than what is sounds like but... gah, still could have worded better in the English translation. Edit: It's so typical for them to throw in a cliffhanger between the battle. lol I was sent back to Shirou's battle just as Saber and Gilgamesh were duking it out.
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Last edited by OminousFlare; 2014-06-02 at 20:35. |
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2014-06-03, 00:05
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Link #4355 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
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I am always surprised how it's possible to not get enough affection points in the first route. I mean, one really has to almost ignore or piss off Saber at every opportunity to get this ending. But I guess you have to get every Tiger Dojo anyway, if you want to unlock some stuff, so there you go, you already got the hardest Bad End in the whole game.
 Btw, the Vita version does have a chapter select screen actually. The first PC version you're playing is over ten years old and its translation is sometimes very wonky which led to this goddamn annoying meme. That and the one who subbed the anime. |
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2014-06-03, 05:04
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Link #4356 | |
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Some say I'm the Reverse
Join Date: Jul 2006
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 ...god, I keep reesisting the urge to make a Fate parody fic just for the sake of that one line...
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2014-06-03, 05:53
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Link #4357 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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For example, the first SaberPoint decision is "Where did you get those clothes?" I chose "Which heroine is Saber?" instead, because despite knowing that Saber wouldn't disclose her identity this early in the game, I wanted to build-up the experience leading up to the revelation of her identity. She would leak a few clues to her identity early in the game, and that would slowly build-up to something bigger later when we finally learn who she is. Of course, I already knew she was Arturia before I even played this game, but I still wanted to have such an experience all the same. I did, however, manage to play the game well enough that most of the decisions I made scored me some points with Saber, such as the question of knowing why Saber wanted the Holy Grail (2 points), the summoning of Saber during the Rider battle (2 points), and choosing to worry about Saber over Rin before the Berserker fight (1 point, making a total of 5 points by Day 15). There were times when I didn't score points because I either chose an option I had thought was more sensible ("How about the bed?" instead of "Make the first move when the door opens" because I thought Shirou was going to hide under the bed, not under the bedsheets like an idiot...), or because I wanted a more light-hearted option after all that serious decision-making (Super move instead of digging deeper into Saber's backstory, though I have to state that I didn't choose the 'super move' the first time I was given the option [there are a total of two times in the game you could choose the super move option]). This will make a whole lot more sense if you look closer at the Fate/SN flowchart as I am doing now. Quote:
Well, with that out of the way, it's time to share my thoughts about the conclusion of the Fate route... Tee hee hee.  Should you oppose your fate? Or should you give in to it? The theme of changing your fate has been around long before the tales of King Arthur existed, and it's clearly a fundamental theme of Fate/Stay Night. One thing I really like about the way they handled this theme was that they spread the theme into the various sub-plots and backstory of each character, thus allowing every one of them to be tied together by the thread of the epic story theme. Each character feels like a parallel to another when we see how each of them oppose their individual fate, thus greatly enhancing the experience of reading this epic story. I particularly love stories that have well-written character parallels, because they make for great philosophical discussions long after the story is done. We could compare what one character chooses in regards to his fate as opposed to another character, allowing us to see the different shades of the same theme (or both sides of the same coin, for a similar analogy). Such storytelling makes for a very satisfying experience in the end. I could go on and compare any two character and tell you how spectacular such writing is, but let's just take a look at Saber and Gilgamesh. One was a selfless knight who was never rewarded for her countless deeds, while the other was a selfish tyrant with a room full of treasure. 'Nuff said.  Usually, I don't particularly respect stories that tie every sub-plot to one person (like the new ASM movie, for example), but when it's as well-written as Fate, it can be very satisfying. It's also especially befitting since the theme of 'fate' is being discussed here in the story. Shirou's foster father being coincidentally involved with the last Holy Grail war, Shirou's classmate's (Rin) surrogate guardian of sorts, Kirei, also being involved in the last Holy Grail war (not to mention being a rival of Shirou's father), Shirou's other classmate who visits him often also being involved in the current war (Sakura and Heaven's Feel), all of such things would have annoyed me, but in the case of F/SN, they felt natural enough that they didn't really get in the way of the story. If anything, it didn't suffer the pretentious hyperbole most writers do when writing about 'super epic stories'. This was further supported by the realistic elements incorporated into the story (such as the deconstruction of what 'magic' really means as opposed to 'sorcery'). Though it does not have a very original concept, and it certainly wasn't the first time we dealt with such a story (battle royale, be careful what you wish for, Cthulhu elements, selfless heroes), I'll take a well-written story any day over an original one (Madoka, for example, wasn't very original, but it was nonetheless well-written). The clever incorporation of taking mythic heroes and combining them in a battle royale is certainly something to be praised. The fate of everyone from across time and space, Hercules, Arthur, Cú Chulainn, etc, tied together by the string of the cursed Holy Grail. Throw in a romance between two idealistic individuals and you have a wonderfully-written story. I have to admit though, that there were times when I was slightly disappointed (mostly because I had such high expectations of the story), like when Kirei Kotomine turned out to be this big bad villain who wants to destroy the world for sheer entertainment value, or how Gilgamesh turned out to be just another shallow (and still disgusting) chauvinist (though I hope his character before he turned 'insane' would be more fleshed out in Fate/Zero), or how Caster merely appearing as a one-off character in Fate route, alongside several of the other servants (Assassin, for example) (yes, I know they were more fleshed out in the other routes, but with the Fate route taken as a standalone story, they were still minor characters not fleshed out enough). Also, the h-scenes were so awkward and unnecessary than I eventually turned them off, as they felt more like filler episodes to me (and the scenes that replaced those h-scenes were AWESOME; Saber-Dragon FTW). There were also very noticeable shounen aspects in the story that bothered me (such as deus ex machina, 'ultimate weapon of destruction,' shouting your attacks, etc.). For a story that deconstructs the use of magic (as typical of Nasuverse stories that deconstruct well-known elements; "Our mages are different", "Our vampires are different", "Our angels are different", etc.), such cliches bothered me more than they would in a lesser story that wouldn't have to live up to such expectations. I was also a little bit disappointed in how Saber eventually accepted Shirou's ideals. It didn't exactly feel 'forced' to me ('forced' isn't the accurate technical term to describe it), but I kinda wished that they deconstructed the cliche of "following your lover's ideal". Saber's knightly conviction to stick to her oath even if it meant pissing Shirou off at the bridge was very admirable to me, and I kinda lost a little bit of respect for her when she was swayed by merely a few words in the heat of the moment. I'm sorry but, ideals and beliefs don't just change that easily. And besides, opposites attract; I would have respected Saber more if she stuck to her beliefs but still alter them a little so that she could try and understand the person Shirou was. Plus, they only met for 15 days. But even with all its flaws, these are considerably just nitpicks when taken as a whole, when I consider how entertaining the overall story has been in the Fate route. It's far from a masterpiece, but it's been one hell of a ride so far, and I can't wait for the UBW route. Also, despite my gripes with the Saber/Shirou relationship, I love the shipping a lot. I especially love the symbolism Saber threw out with the sword/sheath metaphor. Shirou was the sheath of Avalon, the salvation that saved Saber from an emotionless life. Despite my earlier contradicting complaint about Saber's ideals, I'm actually glad that she received such a well-written character development, in that she traveled across time to be saved from a boy who needs saving himself. Before I end this post, I just want to say that the scene with Saber and Shirou pulling out Avalon at the same time, as silly as that was, was insanely epic. That moment of climatic explosion was just sheer awesome. This is an example of a perfectly written build-up/pay-off. Many stories, movies, and anime got this wrong, as simple as the technique is, but the way Fate built up to that moment of Avalon, when these two characters reached their ultimate moment of character development, it was just something really satisfying to see. The fact that the desperation both Saber/Shirou felt was very believable helped a lot in enhancing the experience. I knew Saber was going to win no matter what, but I didn't expect her to go out in such an explosive manner. BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL  Okay, a few more things before I go... First of all, could someone explain to me what the second OP is, exactly? As pictured below, the first OP is the one that plays right after the prologue, but in the midst of playing the game, the second OP was unlocked in the Movie Gallery, but never played even once throughout the Fate route, so I was wondering if it's just supplementary material provided by Ufotable. Spoiler for Movie Gallery:
Secondly, could someone tell me why I'm missing one CG from the Fate route? In Page 1 of the CG Gallery, I'm missing one CG (as pictured below). It's the only CG that I'm missing from the entire Fate route so far, so I'm wondering what it is. Spoiler for CG Gallery:
Well, that's it for now. I'll see you again in Unlimited Blade Works!  Do you have enough swords, King of Heroes?
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Last edited by OminousFlare; 2014-06-03 at 06:06. |
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2014-06-03, 07:33
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Link #4358 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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I really liked Gilgamesh end in the Fate route. His last moment redeemed him partially and made him feel noble. He finally realized he would never have Saber and up on that realization he says, "Some things beautiful for the very reason that they are unobtainable.", before disappearing. Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2014-06-03 at 08:04. |
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2014-06-03, 07:43
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Link #4359 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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2014-06-03, 07:43
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Link #4360 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
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See, the chapter select screen only exists in the Vita version. It looks like this:
 About the OPs: That was a deliberate choice made by the one who made the patch. The first OP after the prologue is from the PS2 Realta Nua version, the one after the third day is the Vita OP made by ufotable. The 2004 version only had an OP for Fate and UBW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VrQyTTlmRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbhFMRlrUGQ Personally I'd say the first H-scene in Fate and the one from UBW are the worst. The others are okay I guess. I felt at least the ones from HF made the most sense. I assume you play in English, so the H-alt from UBW won't be available to you... yet. It was recently translated and will be in the newest patch. Saber and Shirou are actually very similar. I didn't see it as Saber being swayed by Shirou's ideals or anything, I felt like she came to terms with the past just like Shirou has accepted his and won't try to change it, even if he had the power to do so. I always felt Fate is just a part of FSN and shouldn't be viewed as a standalone story, just like UBW and HF. It is also more like the world-building story and you are aware that the other characters will be fleshed out later in the other routes anyway. Kirei is far more complex than it seems and just to clarify it: Gilgamesh isn't insane at all. More or less... The corrupted Grail failed to corrupt him because of his massive ego. He is probably the only Servant who won't turn insane. Quote:
Last edited by Lorhand; 2014-06-03 at 08:00. |
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