(CR) Honzuki no Gekokujou (Ascendance of a Bookworm)[anime]

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Frieda's fate is pretty dark. She basically has to whore herself out at only 7 so she can keep living. She will apparently get some benefits like being able to own a shop, but still. Tough pill to swallow.

Daughters being shopped around and used as merchandise in business deals between families was pretty typical in Earth societies of that type, too. Even without the magical element.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Daughters being shopped around and used as merchandise in business deals between families was pretty typical in Earth societies of that type, too. Even without the magical element.

I know, but that doesn't really make it better.

[BBOvenGuy]

Well, my point is that this sort of thing is normal to anyone raised in that society. Maine is horrified because she's thinking like a 21st Century Japanese woman, but to Frieda, this is just the way things are, and she's looking for ways to thrive under it.

The book "Catherine Called Birdy" by Karen Cushman did a good job of depicting the mindset of a young woman in this kind of society, if you're interested. Personally, I have the same reaction as Maine, but I'm aware that other people might look at it differently.

I think every culture had things that would be shocking to outsiders. I have a friend who moved here from Europe a couple of years ago, and she can't believe how many guns she sees being carried out in the open here. She goes around counting them. And to me, those guns (almost all of which are being carried by law enforcement, I should add) are just part of the scenery. They're invisible to me unless I look for them. And I bring this up not to start a gun debate (so please don't), but to show how different societies have different things they consider "normal."

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

I think every culture had things that would be shocking to outsiders.

I do not think this is about culture, which I have nowadays seen quite often used as an excuse to defend the status quo. There were reasons why society was built like that and when there was no longer a reason, then society changed (sometimes thru bloody revolts because the powers that be opposed any change). I bring this up because so often I have seen many people brag about a moral superiority that does not really exist, people nowadays are as shitty as they were centuries ago, maybe more so because technology has made it easier to abuse your fellow human.

I am expecting someone to say the Frieda should die (instead of becoming a concubine) to set an example, which is the feeling I get from some people nowadays, which remind me of the hippies of the '60s.

[BWTraveller]

Goes both ways to an extent. But even if it is "the culture" (and yeah, I'm pretty sure the LN specifically said it's customary for fathers do be the ones that ultimately decide their daughters' wives, though I may be wrong I'll have to check again) that doesn't always mean that it's accepted completely. Look at Romeo and Juliet for instance. Juliet's parents decided to marry her off at the age of thirteen to a man she didn't know, and when she fell for another man she decided to get around the engagement with a quick secret elopement. In fact, it's not entirely uncommon in those old stories to have a girl love one man but be forced into marriage to another, and while some accept this and find happiness with said husband, there's also plenty where they rebel. But yeah, it becomes a more difficult decision when surrendering to the arranged marriage comes with fulfillment of her lifelong dream and refusal means death in maybe two years tops.

[CptChaos]

Originally Posted by Xical

If you compare it to the LN I feel it is very lacking in general, lacking deep, and the way they changed the last part, Main waking up only to find her father drinking and crying by the fire was very meaningful, hell, that scene broke many hearths in the manga adaptation and here it didn't happened.

Okay, this is some hard stuff. At times I think they're going for an adaption that's more suitable for all ages, especially considering Ajia-Do's background.

[orion]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I do not think this is about culture, which I have nowadays seen quite often used as an excuse to defend the status quo. There were reasons why society was built like that and when there was no longer a reason, then society changed (sometimes thru bloody revolts because the powers that be opposed any change). I bring this up because so often I have seen many people brag about a moral superiority that does not really exist, people nowadays are as shitty as they were centuries ago, maybe more so because technology has made it easier to abuse your fellow human.

I am expecting someone to say the Frieda should die (instead of becoming a concubine) to set an example, which is the feeling I get from some people nowadays, which remind me of the hippies of the '60s.

I would think that somebody should have done the leg work to find out who is making those tools and offer that person or group a deal. Another thing that bothers me, what about the Church? Depending on what the reproductive philosophy of their religion is, the Devouring should be affecting them as well. The Church should know a workaround.

Of course, the other option that no one talks about is using Freida as a supplier of used tools for Main.

Also, Freida dying means that the genetic material that produced a mana user also dies. By securing the mana user, the nobles get more powerful and the poor get weaker.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by CptChaos

At times I think they're going for an adaption that's more suitable for all ages, especially considering Ajia-Do's background.

Coincidentally, I'm currently reading The Beast Player, which just came out in English this year, and I'm comparing it to its anime adaptation, Kemono no Souja Erin from 2009. The story was definitely changed to make it more family-friendly (although Erin's mother still gets executed and Erin still gets her fingers bitten off when Lilan goes on a rampage). And yet, both versions work.

I've written novels and I've written screenplays, and they are completely different things. Even when a studio isn't aiming at a different audience than the original did, some amount of change is inevitable. You have to judge each one on its own merits.

[mangamuscle]

I have not read the source material so I could be wrong, but I do not need to use spoiler tags.

Originally Posted by orion

I would think that somebody should have done the leg work to find out who is making those tools and offer that person or group a deal.

It is quite feasible those magic items are made by magic-users, which probably do not advertise themselves since creating each item is time consuming and they already have a steady supply of noble buyers. If even the devouring (which affects many peasants) is not public knowledge, the people behind the craft of said magic items are probably a very well kept secret (read as, people asking too many questions will probably get to feel the lash of a whip as a warning).

Another thing that bothers me, what about the Church? Depending on what the reproductive philosophy of their religion is, the Devouring should be affecting them as well. The Church should know a workaround.

They might know a workaround (heck, they might be behind the crafting of said magic items) but what use does telling everybody does, there is a very finite amount of items produced by the looks of it.

Of course, the other option that no one talks about is using Freida as a supplier of used tools for Main.

My understanding from their conversation is that Frieda is going to become a concubine soon, so she no longer needs to get more magical items and probably does not have more, remember this is not about money only, they had a hard time even getting said magic items that were about to break down. Saving Myne was not an act of altruism, they planned to get Myne herself as payment but they only got three gold coins (plus a recipe that might be enough for Frieda to open a business)

Also, Freida dying means that the genetic material that produced a mana user also dies. By securing the mana user, the nobles get more powerful and the poor get weaker.

That what they did by making Frieda a noble concubine, she will be a lesser noble but a noble none the less.

So in this world it would be: At length I remembered the last resort of a great princess who, when told that the peasants had no bread, replied: "Then let them eat ... fireball." >_<

[orion]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I <snip>.

They might know a workaround (heck, they might be behind the crafting of said magic items) but what use does telling everybody does, there is a very finite amount of items produced by the looks of it.

Because more people knowing about it means more bodies can produce the product (even a more efficient method can be found with more heads brought in), driving prices down leading to more survival of the middle and lower class kids with this condition. It also means less power for the Nobles. It's in their best interest to keep the production of those mana absorbing tools a secret and supply low/prices high.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by orion

Because more people knowing about it means more bodies can produce the product (even a more efficient method can be found with more heads brought in), driving prices down leading to more survival of the middle and lower class kids with this condition. It also means less power for the Nobles. It's in their best interest to keep the production of those mana absorbing tools a secret and supply low/prices high.

"And when everyone's super, no one will be." - Syndrome

Why would the nobles* be interested in diluting their power over the peasants? Adding a concubine now and then is not the same as adding dozens of peasants. That is under the assumption that magical object's can somehow be made cheaper or in greater quantities, Urano has no real knowledge about magic and anyone with the knowledge to produce them would be more interested in driving the price up! (remember Epipen?)

*I am assuming the highest echelons or the church are nobles or have equivalente power and influence.

[Side-streetdog]

It's good thing that this series decided to go with slow pace instead rush to "more interesting part" that most anime adaptation like to do

While "more interesting part" in anime usually mean 'battle, magic, conflict, fan-service, etc.' that studio want to show to audience. And then skip beginning part almost entirely
I glade that this studio didn't skip the beginning to 'awesome' magical Myne black company and slowly introduce characters and world in this series, as author really put an afford to building the world
Some parts that I feel annoying in novel turn out to be great storytelling in anime as it show a lot of emotion and relationship between characters than I remembered

I hope there would be more anime adaptation like this, that decided to slowly introduce the series and let us attach with it

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I do not think this is about culture, which I have nowadays seen quite often used as an excuse to defend the status quo. There were reasons why society was built like that and when there was no longer a reason, then society changed (sometimes thru bloody revolts because the powers that be opposed any change). I bring this up because so often I have seen many people brag about a moral superiority that does not really exist, people nowadays are as shitty as they were centuries ago, maybe more so because technology has made it easier to abuse your fellow human.

I am expecting someone to say the Frieda should die (instead of becoming a concubine) to set an example, which is the feeling I get from some people nowadays, which remind me of the hippies of the '60s.

I don't think anyone's saying Frieda should die. I am still disgusted by the nobles' attitude in all that. I'm not saying Main should show them the guillotine as her next otherworld invention, but, you know, maybe she should keep it in mind?

[orion]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

"And when everyone's super, no one will be." - Syndrome

Why would the nobles* be interested in diluting their power over the peasants? Adding a concubine now and then is not the same as adding dozens of peasants. That is under the assumption that magical object's can somehow be made cheaper or in greater quantities, Urano has no real knowledge about magic and anyone with the knowledge to produce them would be more interested in driving the price up! (remember Epipen?)

*I am assuming the highest echelons or the church are nobles or have equivalente power and influence.

The makers lost market share due to that maneuver and reasonable alternatives. They also had to pay a lot of money for raising the price of the medication.
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/epipen-p...c-epinephrine/

Even the nobles would welcome being charged less for the same device.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't think anyone's saying Frieda should die. I am still disgusted by the nobles' attitude in all that. I'm not saying Main should show them the guillotine as her next otherworld invention, but, you know, maybe she should keep it in mind?

I seem to remember that the inventor of the guillotine died by said device so if we think about it, if Myne wants to get her hands soaked in blood for money, gunpowder would be a better choice. At the very least gunpowder is not a fad like the guillotine (which was invented because let's be real, only in anime you can a human being behead another with one cut using the blades and the level of human strength available in medieval times).

Originally Posted by orion

The makers lost market share due to that maneuver and reasonable alternatives. They also had to pay a lot of money for raising the price of the medication.
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/epipen-p...c-epinephrine/

You are under the assumption Myne's world uses a free market model when they have already mentioned that the merchant's guild has a iron grip on any transaction inside said city (which might be part of a bigger country). No mention has been made, but I highly doubt they live in a democracy where laws are enacted to serve the common good, they must be either a monarchy, a theocracy or an oligarchy.

Even the nobles would welcome being charged less for the same device.

I am no elite myself (typing this on a computer twice Myne's age), but afaik they like paying high prices if that means they are getting something the peasants can't. Such thing happened when commercial flights became a reality in the 20th century. When the price dropped then the jet set was born, the elites bought their own planes so that they didn't had to mingle with the populous.

[Tenzen12]

Nobles might be rich to various degree, but I doubt they can just throw magical items on any random village girl. They would ruin themselves. I know that if I were noble I wouldn't do so. Especially knowing that doing it once would mean getting bothered forecer with people having expectation saving their daughters/sons/dogs, getting bitter when I can't provide anymore and ultimately dealing with potential riots.

[orion]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I am no elite myself (typing this on a computer twice Myne's age), but afaik they like paying high prices if that means they are getting something the peasants can't. Such thing happened when commercial flights became a reality in the 20th century. When the price dropped then the jet set was born, the elites bought their own planes so that they didn't had to mingle with the populous.

The peasants are what's keeping them rich. Paying for luxury items is different from paying for items that keep you alive. Having to shell out a lot of money for an item that prob doesn't have that much "life" in it would be a drag and a constant source of worry. Just like that merchant, those noble families have to stockpile those items.

Putting it in another way... Would you as a noble rather pay 10 cents per item and stock up on them in case of emergencies or pay $100 for the same item and stock up on them in case of emergencies? Remember as a noble, you have to attend fancy events or put on fancy events to maintain your status. You also have to budget in staff salaries, house payments, horse maintenance, clothing allowance, food allowance, grounds maintenance, Church donations etc.

[BWTraveller]

I don't think the devices have such a short lifespan. As I understood it, maybe it was explained better in the LN, the only magic devices the guild master's able to buy are the defective ones and the ones that are already practically spent. You can't exactly measure a standard car's performance capabilities based on cars with known faulty parts likely to break after a couple miles.

The way it's been described, I find it more likely that the magic devices are incredibly hard to produce or require extremely rare/difficult-to-obtain ingredients, thus why they charge prices so high a peasant would have to revolutionize the market to stand a chance of purchasing one.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

The way it's been described, I find it more likely that the magic devices are incredibly hard to produce or require extremely rare/difficult-to-obtain ingredients, thus why they charge prices so high a peasant would have to revolutionize the market to stand a chance of purchasing one.

Or more likely, it's just banned from public knowledge. Remember, nobles = law makers.

Besides since magic=noble, magic tools are probably equivalent of state secrets. No one is going to get their hands easily on magical tools or blueprints of one unless they are connected to some government organization.

Normal people probably wouldn't care, or carry that risk, not to mention the biggest factor:

which is the lack of communication. People are wrongly drawing parallels of a modern or even 19th century civilization, that has the internet, phones, even trains, and cars.

You know how disgustingly hard it is to aquire even the most trivial of information, when you consider 90% of the world will likely die where their were born?

It's the same for arranged marriages. There's nothing evil about it, when you consider the society of a people that has a very small circle of trust. How do you get work done, by working with people you can trust. Who do you trust, your friends, your family? Best way to network back then was to marry into the family or out to another family.

[Tenzen12]

Even if commoners had acces to "blueprints" doesn't mean they could reproduce anything. It's relativelly safe assume magic is needed to create magic tools and commoners don't have magic.

But you may be right if magical tools can pack considerable power it's probably better keep it in hands of nobility only.