2021-09-09, 10:56 | Link #421 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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He was literally the one who turned that cocky Finger into Caryb-whatever monster in the middle of the battle some episodes ago (the one that Rimuru recorded). How can he not be aware? Your argument is also getting sloppier like Clayman.
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2021-09-09, 11:13 | Link #422 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Sorry for being sloppy, I guess ?
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2021-09-09, 11:35 | Link #423 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Rimuru's general (Benimaru) & Gobta's squad were there fighting Caryb-whatever. How can you say Clayman mistook them for Carrion's people? Again, sloppy argument.
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2021-09-09, 14:48 | Link #424 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
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I'm not sure how aware he's supposed to be of those battles aside from Yamza trying to turn on him.
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2021-09-09, 15:20 | Link #425 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Clayman made some sort of semi-reasonable hypothesis to explain how a slime came out of nowhere and became a Demon Lord overnight: Rimuru somehow manipulated Veldora into being his muscle and used him for self-aggrandizement. (He projected a lot, it seems.) And then he just accepted it as true without any evidence and refused to budge or consider any other possibility, because how could he be wrong? I can kinda accept that. It's just the overconfidence, the arrogance that define a smug snake.
But then he expected that he could use that to make the rest of the Demon Lords into his patsies? Has he met any of them before? |
2021-09-09, 16:42 | Link #426 | |||
Anime Watcher
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 35
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The only reason why his plan didn't succeed to this point is because of one tiny fact that Clayman had absolutely no way of knowing: Rimuru isn't just a slime, he's a reincarnator. If you notice, monsters have a tendency to fight to the death, had Rimuru not been a reincarnator he would have likely died fighting Hinata to the very end, but instead he played dead, throwing a wrench into the entirety of the rest of Clayman's plans. Quote:
Clayman is not nearly as dumb as you are trying to paint him, but rather he's a victim of 2 things every and any Strategist/Tactician can fall for: Unknown Unknowns and False Assumptions. Unknown Unknown: There is ZERO way for Clayman to know Rimuru was a reincarnated human in a slime body with Isekai perks. There's no way for him to expect human behavior from a monster. False Assumptions(twice over): Clayman was given bad information to work with, twice. First: Falmuth needed to be invaded at the same time Hinata fought Rimuru, Rimuru dies, Tempest and Falmuth fight a bloody war. Stopping here because I cant remember if any more than this hasn't been revealed or skipped by the anime. Second: Rimuru killed the Falmuth army himself, not Veldora. This one is debatable whether it was dumb on his part or not. Anyone who manages to survive a battle with Hinata should be assumed to be strong, strong enough to kill an army of humans, but Veldora killing the Falmuth army is completely believable and is the more likely of the two possibilities. Seriously, give the guy a break, everything he was doing was going flawlessly until some guy with Isekai Perks gets reincarnated into the world, and you know what? The irony here is that you are doing the exact same thing Clayman is: Not working with all the needed information. Cool your jets and let the story be told. |
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2021-09-09, 17:36 | Link #427 | ||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Also, why is Falmuth needed to be invaded by the time Rimuru fought Hinata? During that time, Falmuth was still busy doing their sudden attack to Jura.
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2021-09-09, 18:02 | Link #428 | |||||
Anime Watcher
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 35
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Hinata kills Rimuru too soon, Tempest finds out, and starts openly fighting against the humans in vengeance. The monsters of Tempest only suffered as many (temporary) casualties as they did because they didn't fight back only tried to only defend themselves as much as was necessary. |
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2021-09-09, 18:02 | Link #429 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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Personally, I always assumed Clayman was weak, because the strong have no need to scheme, at least not to the extent he did.
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2021-09-09, 18:05 | Link #430 | |
Anime Watcher
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 35
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2021-09-09, 18:31 | Link #431 | |||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Orochimaru was also hunted down by the forces of Konoha. But he just calmly hid himself until he can make his next move which is the smart thing to do. Quote:
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Orochimaru & Aizen were also great schemers, but they were hella strong themselves.
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2021-09-09, 19:02 | Link #432 | ||
Anime Watcher
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 35
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Spoiler for Another series:
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It's a recognized fact that the very best, most well laid plans can be derailed by a freak accident or something happening that no one could predict, you're looking for any reason to deride him. I'll say it again, the ONLY reason Clayman isn't successful anymore is because a Broken Isekai Protagonist with a Demi-god Dragon in his stomach started mucking up his plans by accident. Only one thing went wrong, Rimuru played dead, that was literally the only thing that wrong. Falmuth's invasion of Tempest went off without a hitch, and this was partially Rimuru's fault though by absentmindedly saying he didn't want his people to fight with humans. And as before, I have to stop here because of potential spoilers. |
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2021-09-09, 19:33 | Link #433 | ||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Spoiler for Naruto plot points:
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2021-09-09, 20:00 | Link #434 | |||
Anime Watcher
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 35
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2021-09-09, 20:27 | Link #435 | |
Master of Killing Time
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
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He's supposed to be this cunning genius puppeteer/manipulator behind the scenes who isn't as physically or magically strong as the other demon lords, but the moment he walked into that meeting he made everyone hate him by hitting Milim (for no discernible reason other than to say "Milim's with me" I guess) and he didn't bring anything with him apart from his version of events, I mean, how hard is it to fake evidence of anything he said? He could've at least made the minimum effort. Rimuru only has to point out the fact that Clayman has no proof of his claims to demolish the entire thing, I kinda expected more, even the giant was able to point out an inconsistency in his explanation that easily, and Clayman instantly panicked when it was pointed out smh. Of course the in world explanation for this might turn out to be that he's being taken advantage of by Yuuki and that reincarnated demon lord, but that's just my guess. Still wouldn't explain why he's such an idiot so far though
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2021-09-09, 20:33 | Link #436 | |
Anime Watcher
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Age: 35
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2021-09-09, 20:54 | Link #437 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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I mean, if it turns out that there is a party or a (strong) reason that forced Clayman to do every single stupid decision that he did, I may give his character some slack.
But if we talk in the context of this episode only, Clayman sure looks like a dumb-dumb.
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2021-09-09, 22:51 | Link #438 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bellevue, WA
Age: 55
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Heck, one could argue that his using that orb on Milim was also out of desperation as I'm pretty sure his original plans did not call for doing something so risky that his friends warned him over it. But his operations and choices are undergoing a domino effect and he is reduced to using increasingly blatant and less ideal methods in order to try to recover. Even if he were to objectively realize that he *can't* recover, he still needs to try because that's the sort of person he is. |
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2021-09-10, 11:28 | Link #439 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ARKS Ship
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Clayman is weak and desperate to be strong, despite his title as demon lord.
Once he got a power (Milim) he couldn't even hope for he end up exploit it like a little kid that just got cheat code in game Basically he believe plan is not that necessary when a cheat code is on his hand combine with the fact that he bite all the fake news Rimuru pull and totally underestimate his opponent |
2021-09-10, 18:52 | Link #440 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: United States
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I find it ironic... Kazaream knew Clayman was by far the weakest of the Moderate Harlequin Jesters, but chose him to inherit the title of Demon Lord. They believed his intelligence made him the ideal man for the job, but in the end, Clayman dropped the ball once he became overconfident.
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