(L) 5-Toubun no Hanayome

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Actually we don't know that he wasn't going to give them positive answer. We probably could assume he wouldn't say yes to Nino because their rocky relationship up to that point, but even that would be just guess with no insight what Fuutarou thought at that moment. In case of Miku there were no way tell either way.


In first place how is Itsuki not winning supposed improve Negi questionable writting with Yotsuba?

That's like saying: :You guys complained about guns whole time and noone got shot, shouldn't you be more happy about people getting knifed to death instead?"

No,we know. Nothing in the manga really supports the idea he was going to answer positively outside of convoluted fan theories. Miku and Nino themselves acknowledged that.

[Endless_Despair]

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

I am lost here, why does everyone keep saying the game was rigged and Yostuba won before anyone had the chance to try? We still don't know exactly when Fuutarou fell for her and just because he had all those memories doesn't he fell for since chapter 21.

I'm not really sure either. Some people here seem to be under the impression that because the latest chapter showed a retrospect vision of the times Fuutarou and Yotsuba had together, it suddenly means Fuutarou must have been in love with her all this time. When there's virtually no evidence on Fuutarou's feelings on any of the Quints prior to this.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Lex79

No,we know. Nothing in the manga really supports the idea he was going to answer positively outside of convoluted fan theories. Miku and Nino themselves acknowledged that.

And in the nothing really suppolrts the idea he was going to answer negatively outside of that single thing with Nino (which is still not enough rule out it completely) and your convulted fan theories. Of course if you can provide proof that Nino and Miku are mindreaders I will have no choice but admit my mistake.

Absense of proof is not proof of absense. And that's all we have absense of anything supporting either choice.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Endless_Despair

I'm not really sure either. Some people here seem to be under the impression that because the latest chapter showed a retrospect vision of the times Fuutarou and Yotsuba had together, it suddenly means Fuutarou must have been in love with her all this time. When there's virtually no evidence on Fuutarou's feelings on any of the Quints prior to this.

So what you're saying is that they got together for no logical reason outside of Negi wants them together and that the pairing and everything they say in the chapter was forced just to get to that end? Because if that's what you are saying, then yes, I agree with you, it IS all bullshit.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

And in the nothing really suppolrts the idea he was going to answer negatively outside of that single thing with Nino (which is still not enough rule out it completely) and your convulted fan theories. Of course if you can provide proof that Nino and Miku are mindreaders I will have no choice but admit my mistake.

Absense of proof is not proof of absense. And that's all we have absense of anything supporting either choice.

Yeah, I guess if you exclude Fuutarou's words, the way he acted, the fact that he never dated Nino and Miku, the fact that he chose Yotsuba, the fact that Nino and Miku were aware of being rejected (you don't need to be an expert to infer someone's intentions), nothing really supports the idea he wasn't going to accept them.

[Tenzen12]

-Fuutarou words: He didn't said anything until now.
-The way he acted: It could go either way
-He never dated either of them: isn't indicative whether he would if he had to give answer.
-Choose Yotsuba: Didn't happen until now
-Miku and Nino being aware he would reject them: Never happen. They had their suspicious that weren't adressed until now and that's all to it. Well unless they can read mind.

[devil_slayer]

You guys expect a direct answer from Fuutarou? Dude can't even bring himself to actually confess to Yostuba and he was pretty indirect about it.

[256]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Among quints, indeed only Yotsuba able to fulfill that need, the others are already moving forward to the point they are just fine without MC.

The thing is, that's not exactly the case.
You have Nino telling Fuutarou that her feelings for him will never change (does that mean even if he chooses someone else?) and then she repeats that to herself after her kiss.
We have no idea about Nino's future plans other than that she wants to go to the same university as Fuutarou.
In chapter 93 Nino tells him "Mom... and Ichika... and one day, everyone else. We'll end up our separate ways... But even then... Will you stay by my side, Fuu-kun?"
(Hilarious in hindsight haha... ha...)
Why did Negi had to double down on that? He even went and cut her off when she was going to tell Itsuki what department she was going to apply to. Even just this small thing would give us an idea about her future if she lost. But, no. She's stuck with "I want to go to the same university as Fuu-kun. How romantic would that be?"
She just lost everything because Negi didn't give her a way out.

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

You guys expect a direct answer from Fuutarou?

Does he need to answer her? Wasn't Yotsuba's confession the answer to his confession?
They need to go and dance at the bonfire. I always assumed it's going to happen at the end of the chapter. Dunno what the rest of 115 is going to be about.
Oh, and if someone didn't know, there's no chapter next week, nor on the New Year's

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

-Fuutarou words: He didn't said anything until now.
-The way he acted: It could go either way
-He never dated either of them: isn't indicative whether he would if he had to give answer.
-Choose Yotsuba: Didn't happen until now
-Miku and Nino being aware he would reject them: Never happen. They had their suspicious that weren't adressed until now and that's all to it. Well unless they can read mind.

1)Fuutarou: "yeah, I know, but..." from chapter 86 points in one specific direction.
2)Not correcting the girl's misunderstanding would mean Fuutarou is such a jerk that he left her thinking for months her love was unrequited, despite him knowing it was mutual. Can we really believe that?
3)If he loved one of them, there was no reason to not give his answer and start dating. Remember, they asked for time because they thought HE wasn't ready, not them. They would have been more than happy to hear his "yes".
4)It helps seeing things in perspective, though.
5)Both of them were convinced that Fuutarou wouldn't have accepted now, but they could win him with more time. That's the reason they delayed his answer. Nino explicitly told him so, Miku told her sisters specifically that she "had no chance at victory" at that moment. Negi didn't challenge in any way those statements to make us think they could have been only a misunderstanding.

[devil_slayer]

Originally Posted by 256

The thing is, that's not exactly the case.
You have Nino telling Fuutarou that her feelings for him will never change (does that mean even if he chooses someone else?) and then she repeats that to herself after her kiss.

Does he need to answer her? Wasn't Yotsuba's confession the answer to his confession?
They need to go and dance at the bonfire. I always assumed it's going to happen at the end of the chapter. Dunno what the rest of 115 is going to be about.
Oh, and if someone didn't know, there's no chapter next week, nor on the New Year's

Nino will die a virgin cuz she apparently her feelings will never change even if Fuutarou chooses someone else~

No seriously, I want a chapter about the other 3 sisters moving on and especially Nino.

I was just mentioning how he never said the word "I love you, Fuutaoru is as "unromantic" as you can get tbh. It's like he was having an investigation with Yostuab rather than confessing his love

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Lex79

1)Fuutarou: "yeah, I know, but..." from chapter 86 points in one specific direction.
2)Not correcting the girl's misunderstanding would mean Fuutarou is such a jerk that he left her thinking for months her love was unrequited, despite him knowing it was mutual. Can we really believe that?
3)If he loved one of them, there was no reason to not give his answer and start dating. Remember, they asked for time because they thought HE wasn't ready, not them. They would have been more than happy to hear his "yes".
4)It helps seeing things in perspective, though.
5)Both of them were convinced that Fuutarou wouldn't have accepted now, but they could win him with more time. That's the reason they delayed his answer. Nino explicitly told him so, Miku told her sisters specifically that she "had no chance at victory" at that moment. Negi didn't challenge in any way those statements to make us think they could have been only a misunderstanding.

And again you said it's clear he would reject them, but literally provide nothing but weak speculations and you still didn't provide single evidence supporting them yet. All of it could be interpreted either way which was done several time in past and you never refuted point.

[Neki Ecko]

Actually, I think he did confess to her but in his own special way. When you dont have experience with confessions or dealing with other people, it gets awkward really fast (I got real life story with that).

I think that Negi did an excellent job of writing this out especially when you have a series that all of the harem characters are well-loved by the readers and you don't want to see any of them lose at all. It is very hard to balance that and try to keep the fans happy at the same time and if they betray their beliefs (i.e. Nisekoi and that Revenge series) then you will get another generic harem series that try to be better but didnt.

I don't see anything wrong with Fuu and Yotsuba being together at all because at the beginning of the series the only person that was on Fuu side was Yotsuba. You can see that she was always by his side supporting him, always want to study with him and help him get out of being a study jerk all of the time and she wanted other people to see that type of person that he can be while disgrading her own feelings for her sister that had stronger feelings than her (even know that her feelings were the strongest). I think they would be a perfect couple together because they can love and support each other while still falling down from life challenges (believe me I know, I been married to my wife for 10+ years now and sometimes I would like to move on but when the chips are down, I know that she has my back and I got hers).

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

And again you said it's clear he would reject them, but literally provide nothing but weak speculations and you still didn't provide single evidence supporting them yet. All of it could be interpreted either way which was done several time in past and you never refuted point.

I literally just refuted the alternative explanation, showing that it really make little sense in the context of this story, but I guess unless I go to Japan to hear directly from Negi what Fuutarou was going to answer you'll never be satisfied. I quit.

[Endless_Despair]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

So what you're saying is that they got together for no logical reason outside of Negi wants them together and that the pairing and everything they say in the chapter was forced just to get to that end? Because if that's what you are saying, then yes, I agree with you, it IS all bullshit.

What I'm saying is that no matter which Quint he choses at this point in time, there was going to be the issue of Fuutarou's feelings being left too vague meaning that any of the Quints at this stage could have been the winner for ANY reason. Half-hearted? Mediocre? Cop Out? Yes you could say that but I wouldn't call it BS or illogical. My problem wasn't with who Fuutarou picked as I've already said I would have been happy with any of them and because of how Negi set this up any of them could have worked. But if I follow your logic for instance and we swapped Miku with Yotsuba here, would you still say that Ichika, and Nino's efforts were dragged through the dirt because Fuutarou loved Miku from the start and this is all BS? Or is it okay now because Miku had more character development than Yotsuba and tried to win Fuu's affection? Because if that's a yes then you seem to be under the idea that a heroine's efforts are more important than the MC's feelings.

[devil_slayer]

Just because Yotsuba wasn't throwing herself at him like the other 3 doesn't mean she did nothing. Nino and Nino 2.0 consistently forcing themselves on him doesn't mean they deserve to win. The suggestion that fuutarou was in love with Yotsuba for so long is also still baseless.

I am holding off my final judgment still.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Endless_Despair

What I'm saying is that no matter which Quint he choses at this point in time, there was going to be the issue of Fuutarou's feelings being left too vague meaning that any of the Quints at this stage could have been the winner for ANY reason. Half-hearted? Mediocre? Cop Out? Yes you could say that but I wouldn't call it BS or illogical. My problem wasn't with who Fuutarou picked as I've already said I would have been happy with any of them and because of how Negi set this up any of them could have worked. But if I follow your logic for instance and we swapped Miku with Yotsuba here, would you still say that Ichika, and Nino's efforts were dragged through the dirt because Fuutarou loved Miku from the start and this is all BS? Or is it okay now because Miku had more character development than Yotsuba and tried to win Fuu's affection? Because if that's a yes then you seem to be under the idea that a heroine's efforts are more important than the MC's feelings.

Re-read the latest arc again and notice how hard Negi is forcing Yotsuba to the lead, that should tell you how bs the story really is. Heck the fact that Negi has to retcon the past shows how bs and illogical everything surrounding the Yotsuba choice is.

No he didn't, he was selling false hope while pulling shit like the Bell Kisser, Ichikas character suicide, and basically being Nino being ignored, relegated to just flirting, his childhood friend appearing out of nowhere just to have that one panel where Yotsuba was going to claim that she was the closest to Fuutarou while Miku watched, it was rigged from the start, he never intended to give a proper chance to ANY of the other sisters or to make them work, he just used them to fill out the pages until it was time for Yotsuba to just win.

The difference there is that Miku was working towards making him notice her which says the she was working towards making him fall for her, meanwhile Yotsuba never even tried and somehow Fuutarou noticed only her from apparently the very beginning. You are trying to pass off two things that are not the same as being the same, Ichika, Nino and Miku recognized that each of them loved Fuutarou and were pretty much in a friendly rivalry where no matter who won their efforts wouldn't trample on the others... that is of course until Negi decided to have Yotsuba tell Ichika to go back to being her old self and the character suicide began, muddling Ichika's possible ending. Even with that, the three, especially Nino and Miku pushed each other to try their best and that whoever won the others efforts were still intact and would have still mattered.

Here with the Yotsuba decision EVERYTHING that those three did, all of their effort was undone and made irrelevant and only given lip service while Fuutarou literally tell Yotsuba that he only noticed her all along. Sure, you can say that they became better characters or whatever out of it, but their efforts were made irrelevant nonetheless, the reason they changed and developed as characters was not just for themselves, but so that the guy they loved noticed them and vegan loving them back, which he admitted to never even have noticed. He knew about their efforts, but he clearly didn't care about them enough, not even to get the events of how things went right (Scrambled Eggs).

Yotsuba didn't they to win his affection, she was literally staying away from doing so on her own terms, heck, she even ran away in this current chapter. She never tried, she didn't want to try and got rewarded for it, meanwhile the others did try and got thrown to the side like their efforts never mattered.

A proper MC/person would notice the effort of others instead of the nothing of the one and a good writer would reward those efforts instead of rewarding the one that barely tried. Fuutarou having noticed Yotsuba to the point where she was that important to him all along came out of nowhere, not once did we get any sort of recognition by Fuutarou himself of that having been important, neither from Negi's writing that it was supposed to foreshadow the final decision, it just came out of nowhere while the search for Bell Kisser got instantly dropped and forgotten, but of course that will tie back to Yotsuba just because Negi.

If the MC's feelings were never shown, then how are they important? At that point all we have to go on is by the efforts if those that are trying to get those feelings to come out from the MC.

And I know what some of you want to say about the older three's character development, "It's not about the destination, it's about the journey" and to that I say: If the destination turns out to be shit, then that makes the journey not worth it in the end, especially not when the journey is made irrelevant and is ignored when reaching said destination.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Actually, I think he did confess to her but in his own special way. When you dont have experience with confessions or dealing with other people, it gets awkward really fast (I got real life story with that).

I think that Negi did an excellent job of writing this out especially when you have a series that all of the harem characters are well-loved by the readers and you don't want to see any of them lose at all. It is very hard to balance that and try to keep the fans happy at the same time and if they betray their beliefs (i.e. Nisekoi and that Revenge series) then you will get another generic harem series that try to be better but didnt.

I don't see anything wrong with Fuu and Yotsuba being together at all because at the beginning of the series the only person that was on Fuu side was Yotsuba. You can see that she was always by his side supporting him, always want to study with him and help him get out of being a study jerk all of the time and she wanted other people to see that type of person that he can be while disgrading her own feelings for her sister that had stronger feelings than her (even know that her feelings were the strongest). I think they would be a perfect couple together because they can love and support each other while still falling down from life challenges (believe me I know, I been married to my wife for 10+ years now and sometimes I would like to move on but when the chips are down, I know that she has my back and I got hers).

I see it that way, she took his side from the start, first impressions are made of gold and she won that unwillingly, Fuutarou knew that while the quints would be likely to mislead, lie, sabotage, etc to him. Yotsubwa would always be there for him to rely on even if she sucks at studies.

[Tactics]

To be fair what some people (at least here) complaints is how the end ended up invalidated some part of the journey.

Thus I myself take it by accepting opinion that MC have some kind of dependency complex and wanted it to be filled as that way you can understand how Yotsuba always on his mind, ignoring all previous events without using "You don't know what MC truly feels" card, as other quints definitely unable to fill that need on future as older three and Itsuki pretty much strong enough past their character development. Good as married couple? Why not? You have husband wanted to be rely on all the time and wife with history of return to square one after told not to do so, after all.

Originally Posted by 256

She just lost everything because Negi didn't give her a way out.

Well, true but OTOH you may consider it an impactful event to Nino that will changed her view on future (regardless its positive or negative as we never truly saw if she do have that side of her in comparison to other quints, except maybe Yotsuba who just back to square one even after told not to do it).

Can't say I didn't feel bad about it too, after all, Nino is reduced to that loud side-characters by latest chapters with now all circumstances she brought hammered to little to no relevance. It hurts more compare to Itsuki who never truly participated or Ichika that despite character suicide still get saving grace on last moment that she stand up as notable option you won't feel bad about it--if author didn't have fixed choice.

[kampfer91]

Now this remind me of Hatsukoi Zombie , ugh....

[~Yami~]

bless you, Negi

although choosing Yotsuba would hurt so many people, at least Fuutarou and Yotsuba are building this chapter pretty well
Itsuki though.. I still don't know what is on her mind

beautiful chapter.. this is the climax of this series
next chapter might be time skip