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DanielSong39 · 2019-12-11, 07:21

Your mileage may vary but for me this manga felt like one big troll. Most of the entertainment comes from the girls trolling Fuutarou in various ways, the drama comes from the girls' father trolling him, and the whole plot was one big troll with bait-and-switches, retcons, and false memories.

It can be fun sometimes but annoying other times, so it's not surprising that the annoyance won out for many readers.

Maybe Fuutarou had it right the first time when he described his ideal girl, which just happened to be a perfect description of Raiha. Not advocating incest, but there are genuinely nice girls out there who won't play annoying mind games with you. It's a shame that he didn't go for one of those (who also didn't come with an annoying father-in-law).

As for Itsuki I was hoping for better development, not as a love interest but as an independent, mature, and intelligent character. I kind of saw some attempts from the author but it seemed rather half-hearted.

WingedAccelerator · 2019-12-11, 09:08

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Originally Posted by devil_slayer

Just because Yotsuba wasn't throwing herself at him like the other 3 doesn't mean she did nothing. Nino and Nino 2.0 consistently forcing themselves on him doesn't mean they deserve to win. The suggestion that fuutarou was in love with Yotsuba for so long is also still baseless.

Classic.
I saw this thought process mainly from Itsuki supporters, who were desperately waited for her arc and her to finally join the race, only to get disappointed for obvious reasons. Yotsuba supporters were also started using this excuse, because deep down they knew that Negi waited too long with Yotsuba as well, but in the end it didn't matter. It's easier to shit on direct approaches from the others, and call everything Ichika, Nino and Miku did as cocksucking, throwing themselves at Fuutarou. But surely, Yotsuba FORCING the sick Fuutarou out of his bed for skiing, FORCING Itsuki to play her past self and by that FORCING Fuutarou to say goodbye to her in an arc, where Fuutarou was already had enough problems to begin with, and FORCING Fuutarou to be a class representative without asking about his opinion beforehand in any of these get a pass, because Yotsuba got rewarded in hindsight. It's worse than being selfish. It selfishness masqueraded as selflessness. Fuutarou gives her credit for being straightforward, honest, the first one to change from his perspective, when none of that were true from what we have seen at this point.

The general consensus on Twitter is pretty much the same as in here. The Japanese readers' problem is not who ended up winning, who is the Bride, but how, and how Negi did the other heroines dirty in the end, "killed them mercilessly" according to some tweets.
Fellow Miku supporters collected these moments that amounted to nothing for her romance. It's even more baffling now how only Yotsuba's support meant everything to Fuutarou. Tell me after this that Fuutarou is not running on necessary complex or the game was not rigged.

Spoiler for Miku Appreciation:

256 · 2019-12-11, 11:23

I don't know Japanese well enough to confirm this, but apparently when Fuutarou talks about Yotsuba's support he uses the same words Itsuki used when she answerd Mudou why she wants to be a teacher in chapter 109: "Like how others supported me, I want to support others too".
It's probably just people trying to squeeze blood from a stone, though.

Honjo Masamune · 2019-12-11, 11:41

Truly....The end of this manga makes no sense.
Other than that.... Yotsuba is the one with the least features of the bride of the beginning.
And finally....we still have the mystery of all that bunch of wedding suits....I hope it is a multiple wedding and each sister marry someone who appreciates them.It would hurt me but before leaving the rest of the sisters alone, sad and rejected...Fuck Negi I'll drop your next works....muahahaha.

DragoonKain3 · 2019-12-11, 11:56

@Chosen_Hero

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Picking Yotsuba was the cowards choice, plain and simple. A good writer would have made the hard choice and picked one of the characters that actually were developed no matter which fandom got mad in the end.

This is what bugs me the most. Keep in mind, top quint and lowest quint were within 15% total panels of each other (go take any counts by /a/ or discord - it really doesn't matter). Going by that, that only makes Itsuki a slight underdog compared to Nino, and every other quint is closer to equal than her.

I go with screentime because that is quantifiable, and one of your pro points for Nino is she 'actually does something', when every quint 'does something' nearly as good. So true, one may argue that 'screentime' =/= 'development'... but that then that begs the question, how does one define 'development'? Let's go with TV Tropes in this one, as google's definition is very basic.

"Character Development is, by definition, the change in characterization of a Dynamic Character, who changes over the course of a narrative."

And oh boy, that's doozy. I mean, one of the running posters in /a/ has a laughing schoolgirl as its image, with its only text containing the number of chapters it has been since c60. Because honestly? Nino stagnated as a character post-confession. Sure, she was still getting the most screentime even up to the most recent chapter, but if you take that away, Nino did NOT grow post confession. It was basically 'suicide attack' after 'suicide attack' - the manner in which she did it changed, but Fuutarou's non-answers puts her back where she started everytime.

Miku is in the same vein, but in a different timeline. Her character changed from the beginning right up until "fairness over equality", but any development for her was put on hiatus until the part-time job arc (roughly the same time ). Negi actually did this masterfully, since her development being put on hold was due to reasons like 'wanting to be #1 between the sisters in score' or whatever because she didn't have confidence in herself, and it was during this time Nino took over the one being developed.

And let's not forget the character that changed the most over the course of the manga, and how has that gone for her? If anything, going by what Wuhugm says, the one that changes the most loses. I'm just going to list the 8 most selling per volume manga romcom, which I got in an /a/ thread where they were celebrating 5toubun surpassing Love Hina:

>Miyuki - 2080000
>Maison Ikkoku - 1670000
>Ranma 1/2 - 1390000
>Urusei Yatsura - 1120000
>Orange Road - 1110000
>Video Girl Ai - 1010000
>5toubun - 720000
>Love Hina - 710000

So from here, Maison Ikkoku stands out as the one with the strongest character development for the winner. The main heroine HAD to have it to be LI, since she had to get over her dead husband's death, and from then on go out with guys until she figures out it's MC she loved all along.

Ranma/Lum/Kimagure Orange Road/Love Hina (or at least pre-timeskip LH) all ran the typical harem formula... make it look like the heroines (usually one at a time) get character development, but something or another happens that undoes that development, and we're back in the status quo for the next heroine to be 'developed'. Because really, Akane is still the uncute tomboy she was in the beginning of the series, Madoka the aloof beauty, Naru the alternating tsundere, while Urusei Yatsura didn't even have a clear winner (and even then main girl Lum is still Lum).

Video Girl Ai? Ai is pretty much stock Manic Pixie Dream Girl through the end. Probably the worst of the bunch, since that archetype is defined as being a static characer.

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A good writer would not need to retcon past events, ignore facts that they themselves wrote or rely on pure bs to force the choice into the character he wanted to win no matter what.

Totally agree! That said, if there was anyone who can't have retcon in order to win, it's Yotsuba. Negi pretty much spoiled that KG is the bride with c1/c33, and so Yotsuba has pretty much this in the bag barring last minute shenanigans.

And did I forget about Miyuki? No, there was character development there alright, but I'm saving it here for a reason, because Negi can still do 'last minute shenanigans' like Miyuki. In there the MC's and main heroine's changes in character were spurred by them going out with other LIs, with them hitting it off spectacularly with their respective LIs right up the very end. But all of this 'retconned' in the penultimate chapter, where the MC reveals its the main heroine he has loved the most all along during main heroine's wedding with her LI, and it's revealed in the final chapter the main heroine leaves her LI in the altar to go along with the MC.

Is this what you want? That at the end of highschool, Fuu realizes it wasn't Yotsuba he really likes, and goes out with another quint instead? Or even worse, Fuu leaves Yotsuba at the altar 5 years later to go out with another quint?

Because up to this point, there was no "romantic development" that showed Fuu being romantically in love with one quint more than another. It's been hinted numerous times and in different ways that it is possible he is already in love with each specific quint, and only in this chapter have we seen direct confirmation of his romantic thoughts.

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A good writer would have properly developed said character well before this point to the the extent where there would be no arguing against said choice.

And in what way is Yotsuba not "properly developed"? People have since the very beginning had mentioned that her selflessness is a bit too extreme to be "healthy", and people have speculated that there must be an underlying reason for that.

Not only that, but for 'romantic development', was she not the very first one to accept Fuutarou? Was she not the one who took out Fuutarou to go skiiing so he could have fun? Was she not the one who decided to help Fuutarou to scare people, even though she wasn't in his class at the time? Was it not her who is the first one on a 'one-on-one date' with Fuutarou, as a reward for helping him with the test of courage? Was she not the one who nominated Fuutarou to be class rep with her?

Sure none of these aren't her actively pursuing Fuutarou, but she has actively gone out of her way to 'force' Fuutarou to spend time with her. She unconsciously still wants to spend time with him, even though she consciously thinks she shouldn't be special among her sisters, or having the excuse that she wants others to know how good Fuutarou is. That is how she has shown her romantic interest.

Admittedly, she has done less of it as the manga went on, but is it coincidence that she stopped 'forcing' Fuutarou to spend time with her after he shot her down twice? Is it any wonder that she stopped actively trying to put Fuutarou out of his comfort zone, right after she declared "No matter who you love, no matter how you come to love them, I'm your ally! I'll support you with everything I got!"

She (including her unconscious self) gracefully accepted her defeat, and judging by her non-action during Sister's War until to this time, she meant every word she had said. THAT is MF'ing character development.

As for Fuutarou, he did say to the bride, "Thank you for always being by my side." Sure he may have said that because the quints were literally right beside him when he was sick, but the double meaning is that the bride has always been his ally right through the very end. Sure Itsuki also falls into that category, but if she really is NOT romantically interested in Fuutarou, then is it any wonder that Fuutarou actually chose Yotsuba here?

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A good writer that already had a character in mind would not have strung along the characters and fans with false hope while doing literally nothing with his chosen character, they would have made a story worthy of said character.

If anything, Negi's ability to keep the fans of the non-winners enthralled until the moment of reveal either puts his writing skills in the hall of fame, or he got incredibly lucky. In any case, he has written a romcom that has outsold anything in the past three decades on a per volume basis - that is no small feat that it's hard to believe he did it by luck. So if one attributes being a "good writer" to one being commercially successful, then Negi is one.

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Originally Posted by Tactics

Yotsuba victory basically fall to "destined girl" trope, which associated with main heroine as well.
Ironically, you can swap Itsuki and Yotsuba relevance as first girl and past girl, and you will see not much changed whoever took the role between them.

I fucking love you man!

Hakai · 2019-12-11, 13:24

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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Truly destined lovers. Rest was just fillers

wuhugm · 2019-12-11, 13:39

^Ahoge

Btw, the anime already knew this result from the beginning, since this is the last scene of the intro :

I knew that scene is special

I denied the importance of that scene coz I had no hope non-Itsuki could possibly win
Main Heroine trauma is deep-rooted

WingedAccelerator · 2019-12-11, 14:36

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