2021-04-08, 23:28 | Link #4641 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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Anime VN adaptations existed because its actually sensible to expect return from it back then. During said times, Akane Iro ni Somaru Saka and Mashiro Iro Symphony worked for me, ensuring me to search for copies (so late considering release date between VN and anime). Nowadays, like others said, there's gacha games that more accessible, using VN format and demand you to do dailies if you didn't want going full P2P thus pure VN get it rough as they're facing uphill battle, effectively 'eliminated' small studios. Doesn't help that gacha games stories became more engaging lately. No need talking about big names like FGO and its fanbase, a mere puzzle games able to deliver story chuuni enough to let its audience made relationship chart and talk about their power level. Romance stories in waifu collectors game lack of twist VN can pull but interesting enough if you only care about waifu being waifu. Only eroge survived, however eroge became leaned into getting new audience rather than challenging themselves once per three year with surprising serious theme. It can't be helped; I myself kinda sad about current state of VN, back then when I wanted to seek untapped potential of interesting writers or singers (e.g. Nana Mizuki is VN singers before) outside JRPG territory I would immediately look at VN catalogue or listen to sample audio of VN OST.
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2021-04-09, 07:54 | Link #4642 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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Mobile games have affected gaming across the board, not just VN, but... for every game that comes remotely close to F/GO there's been dozens that have shut down. Yeah they're popular but also incredibly disposable with no guarantee that the game you're playing will still exist in 6 months. Anyway I'm okay with stuff like episodic releases ala 9-Nine and whatever other adaptations VN studios may make... VN are rather expensive to produce. I'm not really good with nostalgia either and especially over pandemic have still found a ton of stuff I want to read so... to each their own. |
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2021-04-09, 09:05 | Link #4643 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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It only explains that back then taking whatever popular stuffs for adaptation doesn't end well without proper understanding of source material (RIP True Tears) Umineko fall compare to Higurashi because Higurashi is easier to connected with. I won't say Fate is horrendous, DEEN took risk combining all three routes and the difference is heaven and earth when DEEN UBW released which IMO far better in screentime management compare to Ufotable's copy-paste UBW VN moment exactly same; Fate itself easily succeeded as the concept is easier to understand by general audience from start so the denial is not as extreme as Tsukihime. Common route or true end make it easier, sure, but it doesn't mean they have to follow that as it depends on what's intention behind the creation (e.g. Majikoi is only to promote the game rather than going for definite conclusion from any route, so do most other VN adaptation). As for episodic approach, it worried me more TBH. Its a good way to keep audience excited to keep VN production alive but it require more careful writings compare to conclusive ending in single package. My interest to 9-Nine and new Grisaia is pretty low for that reason.
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2021-04-09, 12:13 | Link #4645 | ||
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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I never read the VN but I really liked how Yosuga no Sora anime went over every route over two or three episodes each... which I guess was somewhat necessary to set up the siscon route. Quote:
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2021-04-09, 13:10 | Link #4646 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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Also, please, there are enough isekai themed VN. Hatsuru Koto Naki (Frontwing obvious effort to join isekai boom), Chusingura, Koihime Musou (this one already have anime) even more if we going far to 18+ territory that is including nukige (which some already animated as well, not all-ages rating obviously).
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2021-04-09, 14:42 | Link #4647 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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Anyway, especially if you like hearing well known seiyuu in your eroge -- you should give 9-Nine a chance. Its more or less concluded (in both English and Japanese) with a compilation and epilogue chapter coming out later this month. |
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2021-04-09, 22:44 | Link #4648 |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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Did you read?
My stance is anime adaptation mostly stand for promotional purpose, not much difference with LN or manga adaptation except they can disregard true end, taking advantages of multiple routes, especially if its not considered a necessity for the end result thus existence of true end itself not going far past making stuffs easier to worked with in creation process. Otherwise, I won't pick Majikoi anime as example for it. For sure, I'm not the one who brought: difficult because no true ending, alienating stuffs and risk of creating de facto ending for not going with true ending in anime. Not all VN adaptation is True Tears smh.
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2021-04-10, 07:39 | Link #4649 |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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I also said a strong common route... an adaptation like Aokana was able to ignore the romance almost entirely and work as a sports anime.
I can definitely agree that VN are lacking in promotion recently but you seem to just want adaptations for the sake of having them (whether they're bad or not) which I just can't agree with. |
2021-04-10, 10:27 | Link #4651 |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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Oh fuck I accidentally acknowledged its existence.
I wonder if Ufotable will come through with a Tsukihime 2021 adaptation now that its finally real... not sure if they're working on anything other than the next Tales game at this point. |
2021-04-10, 11:03 | Link #4652 |
そのおっぱいで13才
Join Date: Dec 2006
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*sigh* You just said the It-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named
Mari Okada's cat fights are great though. Shipping wars are boring when the girls are all nicey-dicey with each other. Gotta have that spice, which she does add, even if she usually trips on her toes near the end of her stories.
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2021-04-10, 12:42 | Link #4653 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2021-04-10, 14:52 | Link #4654 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Just want to give one small comment about this...
I suspect you weren't around AnimeSuki Forums when this happened. I kid you not: a significant amount of the rules and restrictions we have around sub-forum posting can trace their origins specifically back to the Shuffle anime. And well, in general, I agree with the comment that VNs can be tricky to adapt. I think two big reasons are either that a) key staff doing anime adaptations struggled to really understand what people liked about the game (maybe due to never having played VNs/eroge before) so treated it like adapting a manga and so missed the point, or b) there was just no way to deliver on the game's content in the limited episode count allotted for the show so they had to make do with a sub-par summary. If you look at some of what people see as the successful VN adaptations, the points they tend to have in common are that they have enough time to develop the plot, they respected the game story without major deviations (at least not without good reason), they understood the "atmosphere" of the game well, and they represented the characters well (both visually with good art, and in their personalities). So to really do that, you need key staff who really take the time to play through the whole game from end-to-end and truly understand what makes it special, and then a production committee that gives enough time/budget to match what the game needs to shine. Given that VN adaptations were often just treated as promo for a consumer release of the game, they typically didn't get either the care or budget they needed to really be "good" in their own right. In fact, in some senses the anime being flawed might have been considered okay by the production committee if it got people to buy the game to get the real experience. (Some of them I still liked anyway despite the weaknesses, especially when they at least tried to respect the game within the limited time/budget they had, but it didn't always work.) Another point I guess I should make is that a lot of VN adaptations struggled with writing proper foreshadowing for the ending they chose because, in the game, there was no foreshadowing since it was "choose your own adventure." But when you present it in a linear format and don't include the proper foreshadowing, it can make the ending come across as capricious and arbitrary. Sometimes writers were purposefully doing this to keep the "hype" up as the show went on (Shuffle being a key example of this). On the other hand... a lot of viewers weren't exactly good at detecting foreshadowing anyway, so even when the ending was properly foreshadowed some people would get mad because it wasn't the ending they wanted/expected. This kind of comes back to the "treating it like a manga" point I said earlier -- there's a subtle difference between a romance-focused VN with multiple separate routes and a shounen harem manga with multiple heroines, but a lot of time they ended up converting the former to the latter and so altering the tone of the original work. And, well, FWIW, True Tears wasn't a VN adaptation at all. It only used the brand to create an all-anime-original story. I personally think it was a pretty great anime, but yeah -- doesn't really fit in this conversation since the game is completely unrelated. (Still... they could have pretty easily made a multi-route game version of it, as a sort of reverse adaptation. Might have done okay given all the people pining for a different ending.)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2021-04-10 at 15:24. |
2021-04-10, 21:13 | Link #4655 | |
そのおっぱいで13才
Join Date: Dec 2006
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In a way, Maeda (and his recent work) was criticized for having this problem, but the opposite way. That he is so used to a VN format, that he tries to animate in the VN format. Except it doesn't work that way, and you get... stuff. Or at least, did. God forbid his next work.
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It was rather the complete opposite. I recall Shuffle being a pretty full-out world war, not just the English community or Animesuki.
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2021-04-11, 22:57 | Link #4656 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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Tsukihime is definitely on Aniplex 'to be animated' list, they invested a lot to FGO. Gotta keep the audience excited after FGO dried.
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Still, back then when I was in different forum, people are pretty chill about Shuffle. Like, sure waifu wars existed but the foreshadowing hinted enough the MC will pick Asa (wanted peaceful life, etc). So in my part people accepted it; I guess it helped that the forum is mainly VN discussion so everyone are more or less understand what to expect from a VN adaptation. Maeda is indeed problematic in that part. In every works where he involved as writer, even a manga, the flow feels like I'm reading Route A, next chapter is Route B, and goes on without proper closure as if expecting there will be one big True End to compile everything.
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2021-04-12, 07:06 | Link #4657 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
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TBH, I think the entire industry is affected by this, just that VN got hit the hardest because of their nature. Anime nowadays are way more adaption inclined and also way more risk aversing, mobile game is obvious copy paste. Frankly manga are the medium I see this trend appearing the least. Everything became way more formulaic. It just got considerably harder for VN due to their nature as medium.
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2021-04-13, 00:14 | Link #4658 | |
そのおっぱいで13才
Join Date: Dec 2006
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I guess a reason for this is because manga requires less costs. Anime requires a lot of organization between multiple groups, from animation studio to broadcast to music. But manga? Draw, have a story, get it published. Got the story writer, artist, and the publisher. Doesn't sell? Then die! Anime can't just be cut short on the fly.
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2021-04-13, 17:27 | Link #4659 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Also, with manga, a lot of the adaptations start when the manga is not finished, so it's a lot more acceptable to just get to a stopping point, have some sort of makeshift ending, and then sort of tacitly imply "read the manga to continue" (and it may or may not get a second season later). Whereas with VNs typically the VN is already complete by the time they work on the adaptation, so the expectation is that they'll animate the whole thing (even though they may not have the episode count to really do it). Interestingly, though, the D.C. III anime is actually a case where they legit only animated the prologue of the game, which was definitely an interesting choice (considering the game itself branches off in an entirely different direction after the prologue). But considering how long that game was, it was maybe the safer choice given the episode count. A true case where the anime only existed to promote the game. Even though I can't really call it an adaptation in that sense, and maybe on the whole it wasn't that great as an anime, in a way I didn't mind the compromise they chose. (Better that then trying to fit an 80+ hour game in 12 episodes...)
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2021-04-13, 23:19 | Link #4660 |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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Back then its normal to have 50, then it down into 24, now you have to be conclusive by 12, at worst 6 OVA.
Although that made me questioned: if that's the case why VN devs. not reactively ensure their works to have common route? I can understand need of maximum immersion by choice but if isekai can be diluted enough with similar premises, every VN have common route should be achievable.
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bishoujo game, ero-game, eroge, visual novel |
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