2014-06-12, 02:35 | Link #4741 | |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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Like I said: I mostly agree with you, no need to immediately begin insulting people. Edit: to clarify. I agree with you and at the same time I can see how the climaxes o this arc can feel a bit cheap. I'm not 100% sure of my opinion yet. That's all.
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2014-06-12, 02:46 | Link #4742 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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If you feel insulted then I'm sorry, I might have overreacted a little. Either way, I'm not sure how it is a deus ex machina. I mean it's not like God reached out from the sky and helped our heroes. The fact that his body is getting destroyed from the inside is a very natural result of being irradiated like that. It would be more of a deus ex machina if he were to survive.
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2014-06-12, 03:44 | Link #4743 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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2014-06-12, 04:57 | Link #4745 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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That's not healing, and you don't get non-irradiated by using irradiated people as a template to rebuild yourself. Also, folks should keep in mind that Togashi writes his manga by batch, each batch being already mostly pre-drawn before he begins it (basically, you can tell when he gets to the end of the pre-drawn material when the quality suddenly drops). The whole nuke and poisoning were both part of the same batch, and very close together. |
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2014-06-12, 05:20 | Link #4746 | ||
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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2014-06-12, 05:37 | Link #4747 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
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I really like the whole radiation poisoning story element.It brilliantly brings out Togashi's anthropologically pessimistic worldview,that was present in the entire Chimera Ants arc.It is sort of like the beginning of "2001: A Space Odyssey" , the thing that makes human beings what they are , is the ability to evolve through destruction.
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2014-06-12, 06:08 | Link #4748 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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1°)The nuke was put into play way back when Netero mentionned this place was a weapon-testing site- and that's like 2 years before the nuke was actually used in real time. 2°)The radiation was drawn at the same time the nuke was drawn, so there was never a time where Togashi went 'oops, he shouldn't have survived'. Him surviving and him not being healed from radiation were drawn together. |
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2014-06-12, 06:19 | Link #4749 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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It does seem circumspect to me that Meruem could regenerate from charred ruins but succumb to radiation poisoning but it's all kinda ambiguous to me anyway.
Thematically speaking, I like the idea that the most powerful antagonists we've seen yet are done in by such an anti-climactic manner. I haven't always liked the anti-climactic routes this show has taken but I definitely like this one. From a world building point of view, it's also nice to know that nen doesn't solve everything and even nen users are still vulnerable to forces of politicians with weapons of mass destructions. I also liked the moral contemplating at least until Palm made it a bit too clear cut by declaring they're no different to the ants. I have no doubt that our protagonists represent some sinister people but even with the nuke and all, it's still informed. The Chimera ants were actually committing mass genocide. At the very least I'd say it's a bit more open to interpretation than I feel the story wants to make it, but I understand that there is a fair bit of values dissonance here what with nukes having a significant historical influence in Japanese perceptions to say the least.
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2014-06-12, 07:44 | Link #4750 | ||
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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2014-06-12, 08:17 | Link #4751 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Hence the whole "It's not healing" thing, as it's unclear whether it's eating that rebuilt him, or simply eating someone whose Hatsu could be used to repair himself. |
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2014-06-12, 08:48 | Link #4752 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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2014-06-12, 09:48 | Link #4753 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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To put it this way: If his regeneration also somehow completely expelled any radioactive material from his body, he would not have died. However, he is actually dying, therefore it's only logical to assume that this is exactly what didn't happen. I find my "putting bricks back in a building that is currently being wrecked" analogy pretty rational. Instead of playing the "ass pull" card, people should just admit that they are put off by the fact that the plot is getting a rather "un-shonen" resolution. And I don't think there's any shame in feeling that way. |
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2014-06-12, 09:58 | Link #4754 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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Some, combining what was shown in the anime with their own knowledge of real world science and understanding of the degree of 'realism' implicit in Togashi's fantasy world, think that was the case. Some, with the same kind of reasoning, think it was not. Some, with a completely different reasoning, think that in this way we got an awesome story and also dat hilarious Pouf-Youpi-Meruem threesome so who fucking cares.
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2014-06-12, 10:05 | Link #4755 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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^If you go by that logic, then people should be outraged over the fact that he survived the explosion in the first place, rather than survive it first and only die of radiation later.
Furthermore, I find it quite hard to understand that people are even able to assume that poison can be "healed" by "repairing tissue". As if replacing cells can somehow magically make a radioactive substance disappear. Probably played too many videogames and decided that reality is unrealistic, because Meruem's kung fu is stronger than yours. But maybe that's just where my own inability to empathize comes short. Last edited by Dengar; 2014-06-12 at 10:19. |
2014-06-12, 11:45 | Link #4756 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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And well, if you can repair tissue CONTINUOUSLY, then sure, you can survive raditation damage. What is radiation damage if not ionizing particles smashing your elementary biochemistry to bits? If you can regenerate the damaged cells faster than the radiation can destroy them, you're fine. Considering that Chimeras can incorporate DNAs of other species flawlessly in their own genetic code without undergoing horrifying cancerous mutations, I'd say they must be very resilient to harmful mutations already, so it wouldn't be surprising if they were immune or strongly resistant to radiations as well. There are a few examples in nature, but of course they all belong to simpler, smaller organisms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade "Tardigrades can withstand 1,000 times more radiation than other animals,[33] median lethal doses of 5,000 Gy (of gamma rays) and 6,200 Gy (of heavy ions) in hydrated animals (5 to 10 Gy could be fatal to a human).[34] The only explanation found in earlier experiments for this ability was that their lowered water state provides fewer reactants for the ionizing radiation.[35] However, subsequent research found that tardigrades, when hydrated, still remain highly resistant to shortwave UV radiation in comparison to other animals, and that one factor for this is their ability to efficiently repair damage to their DNA resulting from that exposure." In fact, you might even speculate that that kind of simple immunity is something that Chimeras could have LOST due to incorporating humans in their genome.
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2014-06-12, 11:56 | Link #4757 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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As for the 'nuke' thing... were you reading the manga at the time it happened? it didn't come as 'asspull' to me in part because people had been talking about Netero nuking him (though not deadman switch) for a month or so before hand. |
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2014-06-12, 12:56 | Link #4758 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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On a different note, radio resistance is a real phenomenon, whereas blocking the impact from a nuclear explosion with nen is not. |
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2014-06-12, 12:59 | Link #4759 |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
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Wouldn't it be easier to assume that he got completely healed, then poisoned again after staying in freaking ground 0 while getting healed/surveying the situation before returning to the palace?
I mean, it's fine to pay attention to details, but at this point it feels that you are intentionally ruining the show for yourself.
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2014-06-12, 13:42 | Link #4760 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Everything that happened was consistent with what happened previously, and hinted at much, much earlier. There was no "new information" on anything the King or Netero did- we knew about nukes and deadman switches beforehand, we knew the King absorbed powers by eating people, we knew that Youpi and Pouf could rebuild themselves.... Everything was shown beforehand. If you had asked people, 3 years before the nukes, if Mereum could rebuild hismelf from one, people would have said yes, and presented said scenario. Likewise, people had been talking about Mereum being nuked for a good while before it happened. Likewise, /it follows the rules of his hatsu/ that the radiation would not be insta-healed. |
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action, shounen |
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