2009-05-17, 18:54 | Link #4941 | |
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Blade, honest, drop it with the Euphie thing. It was an accident, Lelouch did try to stop her, and if we want to go with technical details, it was not Lelouch's hand, that was going terminator-mode. I mean, honest. |
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2009-05-17, 19:03 | Link #4943 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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What the OOBK were doing was accepting the testimony of an enemy without giving a fair trial, and with little consideration that parts of said testimony were unfairly stacked against Lelouch, jumping straight to planned execution, all without consenting the UFN, who aside from Lelouch were the brain trust of their organization, or even using a little bit of common sense. (Ask Lelouch to Geass himself in order to truthfully answer their questions, and demonstrate the limits of Geass under close scrutiny, which could have been done with Jeremiah and his canceller. Not to mention that they wouldn't be able to shoot him if he had Geassed them into obedience which is what they accused him of doing.) Ironically it was Euphie who was saying Lelouch was joking, and he was trying to communicate how serious his ability was. He just didn't mean for her to be afflicted by it. |
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2009-05-17, 19:23 | Link #4945 | ||
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Rising Dragon just showed me that a few minutes ago:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ters/CodeGeass Quote:
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2009-05-17, 19:24 | Link #4946 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 40
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what ASIDE FROM TURNING AGINAST LELOUCH did they do not giving him a chance to explain himself was mean but it can be explained rather easily in a rather human way they didnt WANT to give a chance to explain they didnt want to hear what he had to say becouse he had well over 40 eps to come clean about it he chose to hide the truth from them despite commiting things that he KNEW they wouldnt accept and when the found out they didnt care WHY he did them simple as that @Sky he WAS responsible for it in the end im not saying he MENT to do it but he was resposible for it in the end and its only raised as a counter to azul's arguemnts about the OOBK commiting sins
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2009-05-17, 19:35 | Link #4947 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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By that same token though a lot of the bad things Lelouch did could be considered "human". Not to mention that if they really wanted an explanation, they should have forced it on him earlier in earnest. But I guess they were too busy earlier agreeing to his MO of getting results.
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2009-05-17, 19:44 | Link #4948 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 40
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he murders god only knows how many people to get what he wants they agreed with his MO becouse they didnt KNOW about it he had been marketing them from day one as the people who protect the weak and oppose the strong he had them contrast the actions of the JLF in ep 8 becouse they didnt agree with such methods and meanwhile behind their back he had been carrying out crimes that are not far off from what britannia was commiting the OOBK learns this fact and deceide to put an end to him for it they dont give him a chance to explain himself (which i didnt like either) becouse they DONT CARE about his reasons he crossed too many lines and doesnt even have the excuse of "just following orders" becouse he GAVE the orders and this of course ignores the fact that giving a man who can kill you with a word a chance to speak out is crazy (especially when you remember they think he's nuts) and you would notice that you still havent pointed out anything ELSE they did only that they turned on lelouch and that somehow makes the "bad guys" despite the fact that they fully believed they were executing a monster THAT is why lelouch has the worst leather pants becouse the sheetr act of standing up to him is preceived as wrong
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2009-05-17, 19:53 | Link #4949 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Let's see: * The JLF, while not technically Tohdoh, took and murdered hostages essentially for the lulz. Even if we count the guy as rogue, Tohdoh is still upset that he was killed. * They're shown to be ok with burying Narita, and the JLF, simply because they beat the Britannians. Only Ohgi actually cares about using them as pawns, which I shall point out as hypocritical later on. * Most of their time with the Black Knights is relatively sin-free, but come season 2 you see a disturbing trend that these people do not give a shit about the world outside Japan. Tohdoh actually considers ditching Zero, before having a decent reason to, once they have Japan back. Ohgi, in the midst of being a traitor by siding with his Britannian wench (no offense to Villetta, she was doing her own thing, but from the outside that's how it comes across), decides to buy back Japan with Lelouch's life. It never occurs to him to discuss this with the other leaders of the Black Knights and the UFN like Xingke and Kaguya. * Then Ohgi proves himself a hypocrite by using Kallen to bait Lelouch, in a move that, Geassed or not, will pretty much force her to defend her commanding officer and die with him. For all his bitching about pawns, he's quick to make Kallen one. I suppose the stuff following this doesn't really count toward the betrayal, but oh well. * After that's over, they lie about what they did, get caught, and don't get punished for it. * Then Lelouch offers to join the UFN, and they stick him in a box and throw rather unreasonable stipulations at him just because they assume he's trying to be bad. He is, but they can't know for sure. They begged to be attacked with that. The Black Knights are hardly sin-free, they just get off because Lelouch is calling the shots most of the time. Did anyone object to that cult massacre in earnest? Nope, just complained and followed orders.
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2009-05-17, 19:54 | Link #4950 |
#1 Delinquent
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wash. D.C.
Age: 39
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Come on, lets talk about the important stuff! Wheres this "new" rumor about sequel / new code geass property? I mean, srsly.
And Responsibility? Eh, in Code Geass, responsibility is a very difficult to try and determine, because ultimately, the blame for much of the events can be put on many, seperate people & situations. Much like World War 1 for instance. While it was an assassination that "sparked" the war, it was a culmination over close to 100 years of hostility & snide international actions that collectively share the blame. The Geass may have been used by Lelouch, but ultimatly some blame can go to The Emporer, C.C., Euphy herself, etc. The list goes on.
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2009-05-17, 20:00 | Link #4951 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-05-17, 20:00 | Link #4952 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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And what I meant by "human" was that he had very personal, emotional reasons, even though the actions themselves were highly depraved. (i. e. the Geass Directorate massacre that was triggered by Lelouch flipping out over Rolo murdering Shirley) Quote:
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2009-05-17, 20:03 | Link #4953 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 40
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they objected to the JLF killing hostages (and even toudo was upset THAT HE DID THIS, and never wanted revenge agasint eh OOBK for stopping him)
they were not the ones who actually buried narita (lelouch gets the credit for it) and failing to care enough about that (in your mind) is not an actual SIN (lelouch basiclly LED THEM INTO A TRAP, so they have the right to be pleased about surviving it) everything else is the events of their betryal for lelouch which i already pointed out, was justified in nature, but very poorly executed in the methods they chose to use @kir44n you did NOT just blame euphie for what happened did you ? @FruitsPunchSamurai would they have agreed to it if they knew the REAL reason he left them in the middle of the black rebellion ? and would they have agreed to follow him if the knew about the things he had done ? (the answer to that question is shown fairly clearly in ep 19)
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2009-05-17, 20:06 | Link #4954 | |
#1 Delinquent
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wash. D.C.
Age: 39
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In Code Geass, at certain points, almost all parties are to blame in one respect or another. Apparently I am going out on a limb with this position. so I will further clarify. I personally do no suffer fools well, especially fools with power. Euphy, as sweet & caring as she was, was a fool with power. Her desires, while kind, ultimately led her down the path of her & many other individuals deaths. She may not have been explicitly and directly responsible for it, she bears some of the blame as well.
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2009-05-17, 20:08 | Link #4955 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 40
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he shows up and ends up making her a mass murderer against her will and this is somehow HER fault trying to find a peaceful end to the conflict is NOT a BAD THING euphies only crime is not remembering the age old saying of "no good deed goes unpunished"
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2009-05-17, 20:11 | Link #4956 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-05-17, 20:14 | Link #4957 | |
#1 Delinquent
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wash. D.C.
Age: 39
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I do put some partial blame on the creators of Geass. Again, it is not only the spark the is repsonsible for the explosion, but also every single grain inside the powder keg. My argument is that blame is not nearly as arbitrary and short sighted as many on the board would like to indicate
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2009-05-17, 20:20 | Link #4958 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2009-05-17, 20:21 | Link #4959 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2009-05-17, 20:22 | Link #4960 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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