Shakugan no SHANA Novels

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

A confession from both Yuji and Shana, I'll give you that much, because that WILL happen. However, just leaving at that with an open ending is considered a cliffhanger, and ending it like that (the same way they did Season 1 in the anime) just lowers the excitement and anticipation of readers/viewers who are left thinking "Yuji and Shana love each other... what's next?" That's a huge problem when it comes to storywriting. I'll only take something like that if Takahashi plans to continue the story, but it's way to appropriate for this story to stop here.

But as far as I can tell there's an old tradition in anime and manga of not resolving *everything* in the end (I don't make any pretense here about my fan status); I don't see how a true mutual confession would at all be a cliffhanger. It would be the natural resolution of Shana and Yuuji's relationship. The whole point of the story is to get to the confessions; what happens afterwards is almost irrelevant for me. They're naturally figure things out reasonably well, once they finally resolve the most important issue between them.

For me, this is the separate issue than what I understand to be the significance of the reiji maigo in relationship to flame hazes and the crimson world in general; I think that demands the device be dealt with, and arguably the most logical way to do that is some kind of self-sacrifice by Yuji (which would fit his character).

But I'll forgive a bit of a cop out on the reiji maigo, as long as the necessary confessions happen. For me, the single most important strand of the story (and I say this as someone who *hasn't* read the novels) is Shana's character development, driven mostly by her relationship to Yuuji--although not necessarily only involving that--where her ability to deal with people on an emotional level progresses and fills the gap left by her overly focused training. As long as the confession happens, that process is completed--everything else is gravy, in my opinion. Who lives, who dies--as long as the confession happens, and is pulled off well, I'll be a happy camper. A confession right before both of them die would obviously be very powerful, but that's not the only way it could be done.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

But as far as I can tell there's an old tradition in anime and manga of not resolving *everything* in the end (I don't make any pretense here about my fan status); I don't see how a true mutual confession would at all be a cliffhanger. It would be the natural resolution of Shana and Yuuji's relationship. The whole point of the story is to get to the confessions; what happens afterwards is almost irrelevant for me. They're naturally figure things out reasonably well, once they finally resolve the most important issue between them.

I agree that the tradition usually stands as far as anime and manga goes. As far as the true mutual confession, we all know that must happen in the end. That natural resolution of the main relationship is pretty much the point to the story.

My problem is that what you presented is the perfect ending - if the sole main character is Shana. Many people tend to forget that this story revolves around two main characters, Yuji and Shana. Both have two similar but different stories, and both have to present a message. For Shana, it's all about the love relationships between herself and Yuji, so the confession must stand as it is. For Yuji, it's not about love, but about life, although love plays an important part in life. As I stated before, the message conveyed from the Shakugan no Shana story, in terms of Yuji Sakai, is that you only have a limited amount of time to live. What matters is what you do with it. (This case was presented back in Volume 2 by Lamies.) Therefore, it is only fitting that Yuji will die in some sort of altruistic way where he extends the Reiji Maigo gift to Misaki City (and possibly the whole world). And as such, it would make much more sense if Shana goes along with him.

Originally Posted by Aquifina

For me, this is the separate issue than what I understand to be the significance of the reiji maigo in relationship to flame hazes and the crimson world in general; I think that demands the device be dealt with, and arguably the most logical way to do that is some kind of self-sacrifice by Yuji (which would fit his character).

Whoops, gave a response to this one paragraph too early. Anyway, I agree that Reiji Maigo must be dealt with.

Originally Posted by Aquifina

But I'll forgive a bit of a cop out on the reiji maigo, as long as the necessary confessions happen. For me, the single most important strand of the story (and I say this as someone who *hasn't* read the novels) is Shana's character development, driven mostly by her relationship to Yuuji--although not necessarily only involving that--where her ability to deal with people on an emotional level progresses and fills the gap left by her overly focused training. As long as the confession happens, that process is completed--everything else is gravy, in my opinion. Who lives, who dies--as long as the confession happens, and is pulled off well, I'll be a happy camper. A confession right before both of them die would obviously be very powerful, but that's not the only way it could be done.

I'll say this again to emphasize. The single most important strand of the story (and I also say this as someone who hasn't read the original content of the novels) is only half of the story. Because the story revolves around two main characters, there are two messages. You have Shana's down pat, but you also must remember that Yuji is as equally important to this story as Shana. Therefore, both purposes must be resolved and conveyed through the story. The confession will happen regardless, but in my opinion, if Yuji is to convey his message within the story, he will have to die, and Shana, already playing her part, will go with him.

Let's face it - they probably will die together. They're not parting after death.

[Masanori Ota]

You all have given this series' ending quite a lot of thought, the most I've seen since FMP's novel thread (I'm in there too, lol). Keep it up! I love reading your posts in my spare time.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

You all have given this series' ending quite a lot of thought, the most I've seen since FMP's novel thread (I'm in there too, lol). Keep it up! I love reading your posts in my spare time.

Well, we're all expecting the upcoming novel (#17) to be released in February to be the final one, and the state of #16 (from whatever little information we managed to receive) only verifies that this story will end really soon.

[Masanori Ota]

Lucky you. I've been waiting a couple years for FMP to end. I wouldn't mind Shana taking that long either, but hey, we take what we can get, right?

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

Lucky you. I've been waiting a couple years for FMP to end. I wouldn't mind Shana taking that long either, but hey, we take what we can get, right?

well at least you actually know FMP is coming to an end.

we can only speculate on Shana. >_< Though minhtam is right, 16 is appears to be a good setup for a finale, certainly wouldn't be a bad time to bring this story to a close.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by ashlay

well at least you actually know FMP is coming to an end.

we can only speculate on Shana. >_< Though minhtam is right, 16 is appears to be a good setup for a finale, certainly wouldn't be a bad time to bring this story to a close.

especially since then they could put the novels ending into the SNS Anime...I think it'll end at 17, but who knows, i'm trying not to think too much about it until I find out more about volume 16.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

especially since then they could put the novels ending into the SNS Anime...I think it'll end at 17, but who knows, i'm trying not to think too much about it until I find out more about volume 16.

And of course, that's if the anime decides to end around the same time as the novels.

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Well, we're all expecting the upcoming novel (#17) to be released in February to be the final one, and the state of #16 (from whatever little information we managed to receive) only verifies that this story will end really soon.

Thanks for the info. It is sad to know that the novel will end. but, SnS deserves a good ending. I do hope that the novel will not end too soon since I feel that there are still a lot of unresolved issues.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Let's face it - they probably will die together. They're not parting after death.

*sigh* Fair enough; I'm persuaded. One of the great strengths of the series early on was Yuji's attitude toward being a torch--in the anime, this has become obscured as of late due to the fillers and the seemingly immortal effects of the reiji maigo, although not so much it seems in the novels, which has shown the downside of that plot device. From that perspective, you're right, he probably has to keel over somehow.

And now that I think about it; it wouldn't be *that* sad an ending. Shana chose to be a Flame Haze with the foreknowledge that one day she would have to be immolated for the sake of the balance; and Yuuji obviously has no real trouble of sacrificing himself for the sake of others to establish his own existence. As long as the two know and recognize what they feel for each other, the end would be bittersweet, but not in an unsatisfying way.

In a sense, maybe Alastor is the saddest character--the King of Guze who has to see each of his flame hazes, all of whom he cares about deeply, die during his manifestations--he's in the sense the one continually left behind.

Poor Yoshida-san will probably be left behind also.

[Karna]

why does everyone want them to die? dont you guys want a happy ending ? i sure do . i dont want some william shakesphere crap sad ending , cuz then i get depressed and pissed......but some reason i see it ending like that.


btw im not dissing shakesphere....i just dont like sad endings

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by FOURTAILNARUTO

why does everyone want them to die? dont you guys want a happy ending ? i sure do . i dont want some william shakesphere crap sad ending , cuz then i get depressed and pissed......but some reason i see it ending like that.


btw im not dissing shakesphere....i just dont like sad endings

As much as I'd like to see how Yuji and Shana handle things when they "eventually" leave, after analyzing the whole story in general numerous times, a happy ending where both Yuji and Shana are alive will not be able to convey the true message of the story. I've said it a lot of times, so my opinions are posted somewhere in these past few posts. I suggest you read them to figure out my claims to this story.

[Karna]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

As much as I'd like to see how Yuji and Shana handle things when they "eventually" leave, after analyzing the whole story in general numerous times, a happy ending where both Yuji and Shana are alive will not be able to convey the true message of the story. I've said it a lot of times, so my opinions are posted somewhere in these past few posts. I suggest you read them to figure out my claims to this story.

I still cant agree with you , to end it on a sad note would to me make this story kind of pointless . i mean they've bolth been through enough crap in their lives , especially shana , hell shes been through enough crap , if yuji were to die she would be on the verge of suicide . I think the best way for this to end would be on a happy note , not to mention more then half the fans would be fairly pissed, dont ya think?

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by FOURTAILNARUTO

I still cant agree with you , to end it on a sad note would to me make this story kind of pointless . i mean they've bolth been through enough crap in their lives , especially shana , hell shes been through enough crap , if yuji were to die she would be on the verge of suicide . I think the best way for this to end would be on a happy note , not to mention more then half the fans would be fairly pissed, dont ya think?

Excuse me, but have you ever read literature and actually analyzed it for hours and hours and hours to find the true purpose of the story? I don't think you have. You're only thinking in the box, not out of it. You're only looking at Yuji and Shana as humans (well, not technically) who went through a bunch of crap in their lives and deserves a happy ending. Tell me, is the purpose of this story to have Shana and Yuji live happily ever after?

Actually, before I go on, you tell me what the purpose of this story is.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Excuse me, but have you ever read literature and actually analyzed it for hours and hours and hours to find the true purpose of the story? I don't think you have. You're only thinking in the box, not out of it. You're only looking at Yuji and Shana as humans (well, not technically) who went through a bunch of crap in their lives and deserves a happy ending. Tell me, is the purpose of this story to have Shana and Yuji live happily ever after?

Actually, before I go on, you tell me what the purpose of this story is.

.....wow ur pissed...

Originally Posted by FOURTAILNARUTO

I still cant agree with you , to end it on a sad note would to me make this story kind of pointless . i mean they've bolth been through enough crap in their lives , especially shana , hell shes been through enough crap , if yuji were to die she would be on the verge of suicide . I think the best way for this to end would be on a happy note , not to mention more then half the fans would be fairly pissed, dont ya think?

I want them to have a happy ending too, but that's jus cause i love the characters I know it's no gonna end happilly i'm jus hopin tht it ends with sumthing more than them just dieing, and destroying Balle Masque, I admit they've been through too much crap in their lives, and they deserve better, but if he ended it on a happy note a it wouldn't fit the storyline of the Novels, As long as the ending is "Tastefully sad" I'm okay with it even though it's sucks tht they died, if he just makes it a normal sad endin I would be pissed, sad endings can be good too depending on how their written (Fate/Stay Night).

[minhtam1638]

Gone through the trouble of reading responses again.

Originally Posted by Aquifina

And now that I think about it; it wouldn't be *that* sad an ending. Shana chose to be a Flame Haze with the foreknowledge that one day she would have to be immolated for the sake of the balance; and Yuuji obviously has no real trouble of sacrificing himself for the sake of others to establish his own existence. As long as the two know and recognize what they feel for each other, the end would be bittersweet, but not in an unsatisfying way.

In a sense, maybe Alastor is the saddest character--the King of Guze who has to see each of his flame hazes, all of whom he cares about deeply, die during his manifestations--he's in the sense the one continually left behind.

Poor Yoshida-san will probably be left behind also.

Oh, my gosh, I didn't even think about Shana's decision to become a Flame Haze. Now that makes my proposal even more sense.

Alastor had always been in this situation. We must take into account that before Shana, every flame haze containing Alastor died using Tenpa Jyousai because each flame haze couldn't really contain Alastor. Alastor chose Shana to contract with him because Shana was able to contain him properly. From this, we can tell that Alastor does not want to go through more pain.

However, it is pain that we feel that makes us grow. Poor Kazumi... she's so innocent...

By the way, I've been reading through the first novel again, and a quote struck me:

"She could have been anything in this world.
An artist renowned for generations to come.
A politician to move the nation.
A courageous warrior in the battlefield.
An infamous criminal of wicked deeds.
Or even their mother.
This child is the Great One,
capable of containing me,
the Flame of Heavens,
an existence befitting the Lord
through that capacity that exists in dimensional space."

---Alastor

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Gone through the trouble of reading responses again.



Oh, my gosh, I didn't even think about Shana's decision to become a Flame Haze. Now that makes my proposal even more sense.

Alastor had always been in this situation. We must take into account that before Shana, every flame haze containing Alastor died using Tenpa Jyousai because each flame haze couldn't really contain Alastor. Alastor chose Shana to contract with him because Shana was able to contain him properly. From this, we can tell that Alastor does not want to go through more pain.

However, it is pain that we feel that makes us grow. Poor Kazumi... she's so innocent...

By the way, I've been reading through the first novel again, and a quote struck me:

"She could have been anything in this world.
An artist renowned for generations to come.
A politician to move the nation.
A courageous warrior in the battlefield.
An infamous criminal of wicked deeds.
Or even their mother.
This child is the Great One,
capable of containing me,
the Flame of Heavens,
an existence befitting the Lord
through that capacity that exists in dimensional space."

---Alastor

I remember that "speech" though i'm wonderin wat h means by "or even their mother" who's the "They" he's talking about???

[teachopvutru]

I feel kinda sad just hearing the possibility of them dying lol .. , I just simply wish there's something the author has in mind that the readers overlook.

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

I remember that "speech" though i'm wonderin wat h means by "or even their mother" who's the "They" he's talking about???

maybe the "they" refer to the four types of people enlisted above?

[anselfir]

lawl.

anwyay, i dont know if the novelist is writing for sales or art, either way the main character is shana, and the romance side of things has somehow shifted focus away from shana at least in fandom discussions. like, the guy is always the focus in animu romances rite. such trite banality probably wouldn't be repeated in shana, and there will be a just as planned ending.

but then again, i say this with the assumption that the author has at least the basic respectable amount of feminist sentiments.

[Karna]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Excuse me, but have you ever read literature and actually analyzed it for hours and hours and hours to find the true purpose of the story? I don't think you have. You're only thinking in the box, not out of it. You're only looking at Yuji and Shana as humans (well, not technically) who went through a bunch of crap in their lives and deserves a happy ending. Tell me, is the purpose of this story to have Shana and Yuji live happily ever after?

Actually, before I go on, you tell me what the purpose of this story is.

no, diddent , cant , and dont,i just read a ton a spoilers , ya know what nvm im looking like @ss. I just wish for a happy ending .everyone can have their own opinions , that was just my own