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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 Series Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 365 | 44.95% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 199 | 24.51% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 92 | 11.33% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 76 | 9.36% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 31 | 3.82% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 20 | 2.46% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 9 | 1.11% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 4 | 0.49% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 2 | 0.25% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 14 | 1.72% | |
Voters: 812. You may not vote on this poll |
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2008-11-14, 03:32 | Link #481 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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His personality changed, I just pinpoint it (knowing Schneizel's love of his siblings) on Euphemia's death. |
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2008-11-14, 03:33 | Link #483 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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In the first season, Schneizel's very first act is to get Suzaku to hold Zero in place so he can play "death from above" with the unfinished Gawain. This tells you a lot for his first appearance. This is a man fond of ending conflicts quickly, and willing to sacrifice others to do it. Now the SAZ which Euphie comes up. This is a freaking gold mine as far as disrupting terrorists goes, and Schneizel uses it for that purpose and that purpose alone. It was a tool to quell the rebellious elements and make peace. Only Euphie thought anything more of it. Weapons weren't going to work against the Black Knights, so this would have to do. Then the second season comes along. Yet more force against the EU, and Schneizel, even though he makes treaties, also shows these people that they have no hope of winning. This wouldn't have worked against the Chinese, particularly with the Black Knights there, so he went the political route. Then faced with open rebellion he abandoned it. Orders are the only thing that sent him back, and he did it in a relatively peaceful manner because the fighting would not go well. When he gets nukes, Schneizel goes all out, and this was his plan for a while now. Nina gave Schneizel the means to enforce peace worldwide with a weapon of such terrible destructive power that no one would dare oppose him, and he was going to kill millions to prove it. The point of all that is that Schneizel uses what he has available to make peace, and isn't concerned with the body count as long as he wins.
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2008-11-14, 03:54 | Link #486 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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They sure as hell worked on them during the Black Knights rebellion. Most of the group was captured, and if the immediate execution of the whole lot of them had been done, the movement would have failed. What is Kallen and Zero going to do when most of the group is dead? If Schneizel wanted to end the Black Knights at all cost all he had to do was send 4 of the KoR (Luciano, Anya, Gino and one of the others), and the Glaston Knights,and crush the Black Knights, you think Todoh, the 4 swords, and, Kallen could have stood up to those odds? Even if the KoR's personal units where not built than they should have still won. The Glaston Knights could take on the Black Knights (except the Gawain) by themselves, add 4 KoR and they are finished. Schneizel only used a small portion of Britannia's army and only one group of elite units (and only in the final episode at that). If Schneizel wanted to end the Japanese Rebellion, than he sends all the Britannian military he can, and ends it with a massive war that crushes the Black Knights. The Japanese rebellion was far more important than crushing the EU, rebellion's always come before conquering other nations, its common sense. Japan isn't like Afghanistan, they can't flee to the mountains, or to another country. I don't understand how you can call two pilots that died in seconds anything other than complete shit. Tamaki was shown to be more competent and he was comic relief. Last edited by Charred Knight; 2008-11-14 at 04:05. |
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2008-11-14, 04:04 | Link #487 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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In the first season, the Black Knights are terrorists. This means that they only pop up when they plan to do something, and the rest of the time remain hidden in the woodwork, damn near impossible for anyone to find. Hell, if we go by episode 18, half they time they probably aren't even in Japanese waters, making them even harder to find. During the rebellion, which the Black Knights started, and weren't exactly in a position to just quit from, force worked because they were out in the open to be shot at. Even then, a small portion still escaped, even though many were captured. Even if they killed off the ones that got captured, people can be replaced, and they were, in far greater numbers. Granted they lose some decent pilots, but that can be adjusted for in strategies. Your KoR scenario fails for a number of reasons, chief among them that those awesome frames they have either didn't exist or just weren't as cool. Lancelot was the first seventh generation frame, and its tech wouldn't have spread out until later. Next the fact that Schneizel has no authority over them, so it fails twice over. The Glaston Knights were only winning because they were bunkered in and helped by the super death fortress that is the government complex while missile spamming the Black Knights who were fighting an uphill battle. This is also the only advantage the KoR would have. In short, your whole idea that might somehow would have beaten the Black Knights hinges on the singular fact that they would be stupid enough to engage a superior enemy without some form of advantage, which they wouldn't. And I don't understand how you can so egregiously ignore context and think that any pilot, no matter how good, should be able to stand a snowball's chance in hell against a god frame in crap mechs. You're ignoring blatant advantages and disadvantages to fault the pilots.
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2008-11-14, 04:12 | Link #488 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Also it would be hard for Zero to replace nearly his entire army, because it would take time for pilots to be trained, and Todoh would have been one of the executed so he couldn't use Todoh for recruitment. Quote:
I am sorry I am not going to pretend for the director's sake. |
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2008-11-14, 04:22 | Link #489 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Now for the ghetto cleansing. One, Tokyo is largely covered by the settlement, not a ghetto. You can pick a different ghetto if you like, it doesn't matter. Two, if you think Lelouch would buy such an obvious ploy, you must be smoking something. Three, there's a whole country out there for them to hide in, not just Tokyo. In fact, they weren't anywhere near Tokyo when they rebelled the first time. Taking out one ghetto would not succeed in capturing more than a few dummy cells, as other Britannian raids did in episode 15 (I think, around that). Even if Lelouch attacked, he'd do it in a smart way, not the "oh let's run out for the glory of our Japanese brethren and get slaughtered" method. As for replacing his entire army, he gained a measly 250 soldiers from that rescue attempt. Hardly an army in any sense of the word. Tohdoh and the Swords were the only game breakers in that pack. Training Knightmare pilots evidently isn't difficult. Suzaku did a simulator run and that was enough to learn to pilot. Kallen didn't even have that luxury and she can do what he does without the aid of a Charles Atlas Superpower (since you're find of the tropes). Knightmare piloting is clearly a fairly intuitive thing. Not having Tohdoh to recruit (which makes no sense by the way, his presence is never said to be a factor) is at best an inconvenience. You don't even seem to be trying here. Your scenarios assume these people to be idiots for no apparent reason. Getting their asses kicked by an unexpected and vastly superior foe does not make them incompetent, any more than the Geass Cult is incompetent for getting blown up by Lelouch's brutal surprise attack. Some people are just better prepared. That's how battle works.
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2008-11-14, 04:25 | Link #490 |
uwu
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So is this an "if" game now?
If Schneizel really gave a shit, why not just take off straight from Cambodia, go into orbit, and fuck with everyone? The characters even say that at certain elevation, KMF's would quit malfunctioning, plus the blaze luminous around it made it impenetrable except when firing FLEIA which wouldn't have been an issue due to the elevation thing, so no one would be able to catch up with him. |
2008-11-14, 04:30 | Link #491 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Even if that didn't work, he could have at least put forth the idea of ethnically cleansing the place, and giving themselves control of the Sakuradite mines. What's Kyoto going to do? Throw money at them? The Geass Cult was incompetent for not putting forth better defenses. One traitor and the whole place gets massacred. Quote:
Schneizel's plan to kill millions starting in the second season doesn't match his lack of ruthlessness in the first season. |
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2008-11-14, 04:35 | Link #492 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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As I mentioned above, ethnic cleansing kills potential labor, and do you honestly have any idea how much effort they would have to expend to cleanse an entire nation with conventional weapons. It would take forever. The Geass Cult couldn't put forth better defenses because that would give them away. They relied on secrecy and it bit them because Lelouch used it against them. They got beaten by a better-informed foe. Did I not just point out how he was willing to sacrifice Suzaku without a thought in his first appearance? Hell he does it again in episode 20 by sending Suzaku in against the entire invading army just to make a hole in the enemy's defenses. The man is ruthless in both seasons.
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2008-11-14, 04:35 | Link #493 | |
uwu
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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(In any case, he pretty much says why he doesn't just do stuff like that buuut.) |
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2008-11-14, 04:44 | Link #494 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I would hardly call sacrificing a single man to be similar to bombing the planet. A lot of battles sent the front line on suicide missions so that the rest of the battle can suceed, I would hardly expect those same people to go around killing millions of people. Quote:
So your suggesting that Schneizel is so lazy that he doesn't even give a shit if he wins or loses? I am going more for the idiot route. |
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2008-11-14, 04:49 | Link #496 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Sacrificing one man may not be equal, but when it's unnecessary it's still an indicator of how little he values human life. Send in the pawns, then attack when they die.
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2008-11-14, 04:50 | Link #497 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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He made sure Cornelia lived, he was horrified by Euphemia's death, and he hated Japan because he thought Lelouch died there. He wasn't some robot that just occasionally nuked the planet. Quote:
Also once again that happens in war all the time, its not a value of life, its sacrificing for your country. If Schneizel killed Zero with the ship than Suzaku would be hailed a hero who sacrificed himself for the good of Britannia. |
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2008-11-14, 04:59 | Link #498 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Again, they had no reason to go for ethnic cleansing. They are trying to educate these people, not exterminate them. If you insist on pushing for ethnic cleansing, provide a better excuse than getting the terrorists to show themselves. Suzaku sacrificing himself as he did wasn't necessary in the slightest, regardless of how they'd spin it. Plus, your claim that it happens all the time doesn't matter when Schneizel quite clearly says that he's willing to sacrifice people just to get the advantage, rather than needing to. Seriously, stop trying to make out ethnic cleansing as a viable option for Schneizel at the time, because it is in no way, shape, or form considered acceptable. Wiping out a terrorist haven, sure, but an entire country is out of bounds. Colonies still have taxes to pay, their people still make good labor, etc. There's simply no way he could jump out and say "I'm gonna wipe out everyone in this country" as the Prime Minister of Britannia.
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2008-11-14, 05:02 | Link #499 | |
uwu
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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He was horrified by what Euphy was doing because it was out of his control, as Lloyd said even if he had known Euphy was down on Shikine Island he still would've ordered a missile strike because killing Zero took priority, he had no qualms about the idea of killing Lelouch and Nunnally because world peace took priority. ...and "world peace" wasn't all that much of a priority either since he didn't just go into orbit after lifting off from Cambodia. |
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2008-11-14, 05:11 | Link #500 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Its not like Britannia was presented as anything other than a ruthless state where the Britannian ruled over the weak Japanese. If Charles doesn't bother with postive press, I don't see why Schneizel would. If Taniguchi, and Okouchi didn't want me to think a personality change happened, they should have set it up earlier that, Schneizel was a madman willing to do anything no matter the cost. Quote:
As for point 2 just says Schneizel's an idiot |
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