(L) UQ Holder (Ken Akamatsu's new series)

[Twi]

As long as the anime reaches Sayoko's arc, we're good.

[DerGilga]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

As to content for my blog, not having weekly spoilers to post actually makes it more difficult for me. It is fairly easy and quick to put up a spoiler post, and keeping an eye open for more info or images isn't difficult or that time consuming. As such, in order to keep regular posts going, I'll actually have to do more work.

Well, with all your "free time" now, you can start doing reviews about the show with the best waifu ever:

Images

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Given that this show is way more important than Negima + UQ, sorry Ken!, I will judge your revies and correct you on mistakes by gently touching you with my scythe.

Originally Posted by Twi

As long as the anime reaches Sayoko's arc, we're good.

As I said in the anime thread, the problem of UQ is the lack of guiding thread. The anime doesn't have to reach a certain point, but create a better transition between the points than the manga.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by DerGilga

This is not an attack or anything, but to make this clear for everyone who might be confused. According to 2ch:
this chapter, 128, is the last chapter for UQ holder Part 1. There won't be another chapter until October!

Until October, or until the October issue of Bessatsu (which should be out in September)?

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Hata

now the question is, did Ken went the monthly route via his own free will? (can not handle weekly workload anymore.) or is he forced off because of low rating? evidences point to the second theory, Ken shows no problem of handling the weekly 16 pages workload that he even added on 2 more pages each week, and the sudden change to harem mode as if to see the rating can be revive by fan services, so unless there are other unknown reasons like he is sick/getting busy at home, etc. I will tend lean toward the second theory. Ken most likely will give a reason, truthful or not, on twitter after Wednesday.

This is one thing that I was wondering myself after I read the news. On one side, a lot the more recent events in the manga (the chapters that were more harem focused; the reappearance of certain Negima fan favorites) definitely felt as if as Ken Akamatsu was trying to attract readers of his previous works into checking out UQ Holder. On the other hand, Negima readers are well aware how break weeks began to appear more often during the later years of its run. Hence, I could see this as Ken Akamatsu taking some pressure off by now publishing a new chapter monthly instead of weekly.

Originally Posted by Krono

Until October, or until the October issue of Bessatsu (which should be out in September)?

By October, they mean the November issue of Bessatsu.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by DerGilga

Well, with all your "free time" now, you can start doing reviews about the show with the best waifu ever:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Given that this show is way more important than Negima + UQ, sorry Ken!, I will judge your revies and correct you on mistakes by gently touching you with my scythe.

Ha!ha! As much as I love that show, there are not plans for me to review it.

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

This is one thing that I was wondering myself after I read the news. On one side, a lot the more recent events in the manga (the chapters that were more harem focused; the reappearance of certain Negima fan favorites) definitely felt as if as Ken Akamatsu was trying to attract readers of his previous works into checking out UQ Holder.

Ever since there's been an explosion of fan service, some of which I think is the most ecchi stuff Akamatsu-sensei has ever done, combined with the harem antics, which was not present before, I've felt that Kodansha may have pushed Akamatsu-sensei to do stuff to boost the popularity of UQH. Throwing in more Negima stuff is to try to pull back fans of Negima by promising them some answers to abandoned plot threads there.

I've long felt that with UQ Holder, Akamatsu-sensei didn't want to be tied to writing a story with a tight plotline. I always cited Mashima-sensei's Fairy Tail as an example of where Akamatsu-sensei would like to go -- have some very loose, overarching plot, but then have a series of random adventures along the way. Following this model, he doesn't have to worry much about character development, continuity, or the like. If he needs to recton stuff, then sobeit.

However, one of the reasons I think Negima was so popular was that there was a fairly tight main plot. I do believe things were tweaked along the way, especially at a character level. The fan service, battles, and such were all icing on the cake. There was a solid story in the center. There were too many characters, so we didn't get to explore characters like I would have liked (though to be fair, that problem has remained in UQ Holder, where Santa is the only character that has had any real exploration, but that came to an end as soon as the Sayoko arc ended).

Hopefully with UQH going to a monthly format, we'll see a better manga series.

[Pierre]

I honestly don't know. I feel UQ would have just been better off as its own thing instead of a continuation or alternative continuation of Negima.

I feel like Akamatsu peaked with the first part of Negima when it was just a fun slice of life harem comedy. Once he started making that some mumbo jumbo Clamp wannabe action multiple verse series, it went down hill. I actually personal believe Love Hina was probably his peak.....had Keitaro picked Motoko or Shinbou that is.

[Tenzen12]

I don't know if UQ holeder were better without it's connection to Negima, but it would get better reactions at least.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by DerGilga

Well, with all your "free time" now, you can start doing reviews about the show with the best waifu ever:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Given that this show is way more important than Negima + UQ, sorry Ken!, I will judge your revies and correct you on mistakes by gently touching you with my scythe.

Someone want to clue in the clueless? I'm seeing a picture of the Enterprise D from STNG. What does that have to do with anime and waifus? Or am I missing something?

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

I remember Mana said she used to have a partner who passed away. What if Touta just returned to the future and she thought he died?

Depends upon when exactly Touta appears in "the past". Going by her pactio card, Mana was a fair bit younger when she lost her partner than she was when she was in Negi's 3-A, and given her nature, that "fair bit" could have been quite a fair bit. Maybe even well before most of those in Negi's 3-A were even alive.

Besides, Al's world is likely just an illusion of the past in some pocket dimension. Kind of like Poyo's pactio ability. If Al could time travel to the past, I think we would have seen a hint of it before now... My guess is that some time around the period when Negima occurred (probably right before she was sent into stasis, or if we're in the "Returns" timeline, some time after she came back), he did with Asuna what he did previously with Nagi, and that was to take a "snapshot" of their personality and knowledge at that time. The "past Mahora" is just window dressing.

[ChuckE]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I feel like Akamatsu peaked with the first part of Negima when it was just a fun slice of life harem comedy. Once he started making that some mumbo jumbo Clamp wannabe action multiple verse series, it went down hill. I actually personal believe Love Hina was probably his peak.....had Keitaro picked Motoko or Shinbou that is.

Well it was good till Negi and his class moved to MegaloMesembria - it was not that plot heavy and have decent amount of action. Not too much serious, not too much drama or not that easy-going (like Mahora tournament) - it was something simiral to FT as mentioned there. Though in Megalo-mesembria there were some awesome arcs like the tournament and battle with Rakan It never tires me to reread that fight.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I don't know if UQ holeder were better without it's connection to Negima, but it would get better reactions at least.

Well UQ annoys me because it stomps on my feelings to Negima and that is the reason why I am unable to read it (maybe some chapters)

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Depends upon when exactly Touta appears in "the past". Going by her pactio card, Mana was a fair bit younger when she lost her partner than she was when she was in Negi's 3-A, and given her nature, that "fair bit" could have been quite a fair bit. Maybe even well before most of those in Negi's 3-A were even alive.

Besides, Al's world is likely just an illusion of the past in some pocket dimension. Kind of like Poyo's pactio ability. If Al could time travel to the past, I think we would have seen a hint of it before now... My guess is that some time around the period when Negima occurred (probably right before she was sent into stasis, or if we're in the "Returns" timeline, some time after she came back), he did with Asuna what he did previously with Nagi, and that was to take a "snapshot" of their personality and knowledge at that time. The "past Mahora" is just window dressing.

About Mana, I agree, it's just a joke anyway.

But about whether this Mahora is an illusion or truly the past, we can't rule out possibility Al could actually travel in time, since this is Ken and he is known for loving to mess up with timelines. I still remember when Touta met Eva in Dana's castle, people insisted it's just a pocket dimension and noway that could be the real Eva. But then it turned out everything is real, thus there is a high chance things like that will repeat again.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I honestly don't know. I feel UQ would have just been better off as its own thing instead of a continuation or alternative continuation of Negima.

Same here. UQ Holder should be a standalone series. Yukihime should be the only Negima cast that brought over here and full-stop. After all, it was supposed to be her story and a young boy.

I guess UQ HOlder is just a bridge/cover-up for the writer to continue to the story of the Lifemaker Springfield because he wasn't able to realise it in the Negima.

And as for the anime adaptation, hope it won't ended up like Negima anime.

[Tenzen12]

Because it's not like anyone hoped UQ holder would fill plot holes from Negima and often commented about that early in story before it happened?

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Same here. UQ Holder should be a standalone series. Yukihime should be the only Negima cast that brought over here and full-stop. After all, it was supposed to be her story and a young boy.

By bringing Eva over, that automatically has it not be a standalone title. ;-)

I don't know if the original concept of the story was just Eva and Touta. The title UQ Holder and the first chapter suggested a boys journey in the world of immortality with a group of other immortals. I do think (and have long thought this) that UQH should have stayed on the road journey with Eva, Touta, and Kuroumaru to develop their characters. Eva could have told Touta stories (flashbacks to see her life). Kuroumaru could have told similar stories in flashback form. I may be wrong, but I think that would have worked. That was kinda what I was wanting to see, so that Touta would start becoming educated on what it means to be immortal.

Unfortunately, the magical arrival of the stretch limos to just end that journey story arc started the manga on its downward spiral and let me know that it wasn't going to be as good as Negima was.

I guess UQ HOlder is just a bridge/cover-up for the writer to continue to the story of the Lifemaker Springfield because he wasn't able to realise it in the Negima.

I think that was also part of the plan from the start. Touta just took Negi's role, but then had to get "leveled up" at rocket speed. The way it was done was the bad part.

And as for the anime adaptation, hope it won't ended up like Negima anime.

You mean with the crappy adaptation, the stupid, based on anime, and then the OADs that just took stories here and there to adapt?

With some work, UQH could be improved in an anime adaptation.

[DerGilga]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Ha!ha! As much as I love that show, there are not plans for me to review it.

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Someone want to clue in the clueless? I'm seeing a picture of the Enterprise D from STNG. What does that have to do with anime and waifus? Or am I missing something?

Now look Astro, there are people out there who don't now why she ist the best waifu. Now you have to do some reviews!

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

I think that was also part of the plan from the start. Touta just took Negi's role, but then had to get "leveled up" at rocket speed. The way it was done was the bad part.

Honest question, did you read some other shounen than Negima? Because Touta's "level up"-speed is kind of sad and pathetic in comparison with other, very very successful shounen out there. Son Goku says hello!

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

By bringing Eva over, that automatically has it not be a standalone title. ;-)

I don't know if the original concept of the story was just Eva and Touta. The title UQ Holder and the first chapter suggested a boys journey in the world of immortality with a group of other immortals. I do think (and have long thought this) that UQH should have stayed on the road journey with Eva, Touta, and Kuroumaru to develop their characters. Eva could have told Touta stories (flashbacks to see her life). Kuroumaru could have told similar stories in flashback form. I may be wrong, but I think that would have worked. That was kinda what I was wanting to see, so that Touta would start becoming educated on what it means to be immortal.

Unfortunately, the magical arrival of the stretch limos to just end that journey story arc started the manga on its downward spiral and let me know that it wasn't going to be as good as Negima was.

I think that looking back, it's clear that the original premise of the manga ended up being abandoned mostly, with the story about what it means to be immortal and Touta's biggest worry back then was his voice not changing so he could become an idol singer (boy, that plot thread ended up leading nowhere) having little to do with the main conflict currently.

You made the comparison early on that it felt like Akamatsu wanted to be more like how Hiro manages to structures Fairy Tail's story from arc to arc, and I do think that is pretty apt here. I think that the ideal version of UQH would've been sometimes as a stand alone character focuses short arcs to longer more cast driven arcs, at times shedding some light on long plot threads and showing us more revelations about how this series relates to Negima and other times exploring some of UQH own lore and history that isn't directly related to Negima (so each immortals story and how they came to be everliving, sort like we got glimpses of that with Jinbe and Karin early on).

I wouldn't say that the manga had been on a downward spiral, so much as it was largely aimless. I will defend it by saying a lot of it was good, even brilliant, and that even if there were lull moments in between the arcs, the delivery was spot on by the end. But the death knell of the series own individuality was the combo of being attached so closely to a very popular manga (and thus bringing about some unfortunate comparisons that made UQH look worse when it wasn't that bad) and how it never managed to decided on what exactly it wanted to be.

Is UQ Holder a sequel series to Negima? A spin off? An alternate reality story? A mid-quel? Its certainly a shonen action adventure, but what is it ultimately wanting to do? Just cool action fights and hot blooded Shonen Cliché? Is there a message to the story? How does immortality relate to that message? What are the protagonist's goal? How does he change over the course of the story in order to achieve those goals?

I feel that it was that lack of clarity that made UQH unique parts pale when the Negima parts came across like breaths of fresh air. Even when the story always had the potential to stand on its own.

Originally Posted by DerGilga

Honest question, did you read some other shounen than Negima? Because Touta's "level up"-speed is kind of sad and pathetic in comparison with other, very very successful shounen out there. Son Goku says hello!

I don't think Touta's astronomic level up was honestly the problem so much as the implication that he was on Negi's level after it. And even then, the meta reason for doing it was so that he would be able to keep up with end game-Negima opponents Ken was planning on introducing without it seeming absurd.

Spoiler for :

Mind you, my current favourite Shonen is one where the protagonist is so absurdly weak that undergoing Spartan style training ends up doing more harm than good, and he needs to switch back to superior tactics and dirty tricks to win, so I personally would've rather Touta kept on that eye patch of his and traveled the world, talking with his sword and maybe learning fighting styles on his way.

[Triok123]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Spoiler for :

Mind you, my current favourite Shonen is one where the protagonist is so absurdly weak that undergoing Spartan style training ends up doing more harm than good, and he needs to switch back to superior tactics and dirty tricks to win, so I personally would've rather Touta kept on that eye patch of his and traveled the world, talking with his sword and maybe learning fighting styles on his way.

world trigger?

[DerGilga]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I think that looking back, it's clear that the original premise of the manga ended up being abandoned mostly, with the story about what it means to be immortal and Touta's biggest worry back then was his voice not changing so he could become an idol singer (boy, that plot thread ended up leading nowhere) having little to do with the main conflict currently.

I would say for most parts UQ holder stayed true to what it wanted to be, aka a story about an immortal AND a conclusion to Negima.

If you go though the story so for you can see how Akamatsu is setting most things up very early

• the beginning: introduction of Touta, Eva and Kuroumaru; teaser of UQ numbers
  -
• 1st training: intro of Jinbei; immortals have weaknesses in battle
  -
• Hunter Arc: World building; intro of Karin; first teaser of Touta's powers; Fate;
  Touta's dream is small for an immortal
  -
• Kiriee Arc: Intro of Kiriee, Ikkuu and Fate; Negi teaser
  -
• Santa Arc: Teaser of Jouzou; Intro of Santa; More world building;
  -
• Pre-Tournament+Imouto: world building; MotB-chan teaser; Intro of talking sword; Intro of Imouto; Touta is a 'clone';
  -
• Dana Arc: Intro of perfection/Dana; character development for Touta & Eva, also a little bit for the others; Fixing of Touta; Immortals live so long they simply forget things
  -
• The harem arc part 1: more mortal girls; character development for the rest; teaser for YHWH
  -
• story: more exposition; intro of MotB-chan
  -
• the race: mortal girls talk with an immortal about the future + things beyond the tower; the first climax with Negi appearing

I sure I forgot some things. At leasts in my opinion Akamatsu did have plan for the most parts and even in the race he's setting things up for the future. But UQ holder so far was a rather unfortunate mix of Touta's journey as an immortal AND giving the Negima story a conclusion. If I would make an prediction, I would say that after Negi is defeated the story will switch more to the immortal angle and we will see how Touta has to struggle as an immortal aka seeing how mortal allies around him just die of old age.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by DerGilga

Now look Astro, there are people out there who don't now why she ist the best waifu. Now you have to do some reviews!

Heh!

Honest question, did you read some other shounen than Negima? Because Touta's "level up"-speed is kind of sad and pathetic in comparison with other, very very successful shounen out there. Son Goku says hello!

I've read a lot of shounen titles, but trying to keep in like with UQ Holder, a few; Fairy Tail, Seven Deadly Sins (I will be dropping a volume 1-14 review on that at some point), Trinity Seven, and possibly some others that might qualify. On the anime front, Yu Yu Hakusho springs to mind. Seven Deadly Sins and Fairy Tail are similar in that you have a bunch of massively powerful people who at times "dig deep" to overcome an opponent, or who obtain something to allow them to become more powerful.

With Trinity Seven, you have similar things, but the protagonist starts as "normal," but has abilities somehow. There, we learn fairly quickly (as I recall it) that the MC has a very specific reason for being powerful.

In Negima and Yu Yu Hakusho, the MC is shown to train hard, but have the ability to pick up things quickly. With more battle experience comes better usage of the abilities learned. That's a natural flow.

With UQ Holder, Touta was supposed to be a normal kid with no magical abilities and no ambition to do anything other than to go to the top of the tower. Being the supposed grandson of Negi didn't explain anything. It was just suddenly, Touta could do this and could do that, depending on what the plot required. So in the early parts of the manga, I often ranted about this because Touta hadn't earned his abilities and skills. He'd either seen them once and imitated them, or things just happened on their own.

For me, the flow of things just wasn't natural. It came off to me as Sensei saying, "I need Touta to be the Negi replacement, so I need to just get him to Negi's level without bothering to go through the training Negi went through."

Once Akamatsu-sensei provided the information that Touta was a homunculus to try to clone Negi's powers and abilities, then things made sense and became tolerable. I think Akamatsu-sensei was trying to spur conversation on "Why is Touta so skilled" from a mystery standpoint, but instead he drove a "Why is Touta so skilled when he hasn't done jack to get these skills?"

(As an aside, I find it funny that Touta's skills are all from Negi. In my old Negi is Nagi theory, one of the points I made to explain how Negi could learn stuff so quickly is because he already knew this stuff as Nagi.)

Originally Posted by DerGilga

I would say for most parts UQ holder stayed true to what it wanted to be, aka a story about an immortal AND a conclusion to Negima.

After that first chapter of UQH, I saw this as being not a story of an immortal, but of a seemingly normal kid who's suddenly turned immortal and now has to deal with what that means. When Touta, Eva, and then Kuroumaru were doing their journey by foot, I continued to feel this. I liked that first arc quite a lot.

However, once the journey by foot came to an abrupt end so that Touta could master a sword weighing tons upon tons and break free of the UQH underground in record time, I felt the story shifted to "lets get Touta to replace Negi ASAP so he can fight the mega powerful entities that Negi did."

Unfortunately, immortality in UQH is just a way for Akamatsu-sensei to be more gory and have a mechanism for his characters to get butchered, but still stay alive and return to fight again. There really hasn't been an exploration of the curse of immortality, which I really wanted to see through Karin. :-(

[Yuutsu]

Yeah, the latest developments definitely seem to be pressure on Akamatsu to popularize UQ Holder. I don't think he was ever a fan of harem shenanigans and wanted to make a spirited, hot-blooded shonen (which was what UQ started out as, and that's what made it interesting).

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Heh!
With UQ Holder, Touta was supposed to be a normal kid with no magical abilities and no ambition to do anything other than to go to the top of the tower. Being the supposed grandson of Negi didn't explain anything. It was just suddenly, Touta could do this and could do that, depending on what the plot required. So in the early parts of the manga, I often ranted about this because Touta hadn't earned his abilities and skills. He'd either seen them once and imitated them, or things just happened on their own.

For me, the flow of things just wasn't natural. It came off to me as Sensei saying, "I need Touta to be the Negi replacement, so I need to just get him to Negi's level without bothering to go through the training Negi went through."

Once Akamatsu-sensei provided the information that Touta was a homunculus to try to clone Negi's powers and abilities, then things made sense and became tolerable. I think Akamatsu-sensei was trying to spur conversation on "Why is Touta so skilled" from a mystery standpoint, but instead he drove a "Why is Touta so skilled when he hasn't done jack to get these skills?"

(As an aside, I find it funny that Touta's skills are all from Negi. In my old Negi is Nagi theory, one of the points I made to explain how Negi could learn stuff so quickly is because he already knew this stuff as Nagi.)

I don't know how you came up with these impression, but as someone who also read UQ Holder, I can say there're rather untrue.

First, Touta was never supposed to be a normal kid, in any sense. Right from the beginning, Ken has showed us hints about his abnormal origin (both parent died in a suspicious incident and was accidentally raised by a famous vampire), then right after that we found out his connection to Negi and the Konoes. No way someone like that could be considered "normal"

Second, being "Negi's grandson" explains a lot of things. He isn't a normal "grandson", but actually a man-made biological weapon created for a certain purpose. So no wonder he can "suddenly" do things normal people would require a lot of training to do, since he was created and programmed to be able to do them in the first place. And Ken has been carefully building up and dropping hints about his origin throughout the manga, you can't say it happened out of nowhere.
The flow only unnatural if the revelation "Touta is a super bio-weapon created in a lab" popped up out of nowhere without any foreshadow and was made for the sole purpose of explainning Touta's grow in power when the plot required, but the thing is it was hinted and foreshadowed here and there in the entire manga. More importantly, it is a premise with a strong tie to the core plot.
I also don't understand why you're so focus about how the protagonist gets his power, it's good to gain them through training with blood and sweat, but I don't see any reason the protagonist can't just be strong from the beginning because he was made that way. Otherwise people would wonder why a machine like the Terminator who probably didn't train for even a second in his life could butcher those cops who have been fighting criminals for all their life. The question shouldn't about how the protagonist gained power, it should be more about how he use those power.

With all the respect, I somehow doubt that the primary reason you are so dissatisfied with Touta and UQ Holder as a whole is because you read Negima first and came to love Negi more, thus when you realize Ken is going to present Touta as a better protagonist than Negi, someone who will make huge achievement that Negi failed to, you dislike him, thinking he's going to steal everything from Negi. (It's just my speculation, you are free to correct me if I'm wrong though).