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Old 2009-01-28, 18:53   Link #5141
stormturmoil
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The real trouble with Mary Sues is that the story hijacking tends to be inexplicable and instant.

The character can not only do no wrong, but when they do do something wrong, it always turns out well.

any Flaws the True Sue has will tend not to be really flawlike.



Personally, I stopped caring about Sue Accusations once I realised that most of the major characters in classic Literature are almost all textbook Sues. Shakespeare wrote plenty, for example.

The most extreme example from Classical literature I can think of is...Sherlock Holmes.

He's always right. He makes connections the paid professionals do not see, taking the place of the entire police establishment. He knows things the Goddamned Author doesn't know yet.

And all this is from the Dunce of the Family: Sherlock is a disapointment; his Doctor Older Brother Mycroft is the smart one of the family...

His only real flaws are an entirely Spurious Drug habit that changes nothing about him, and a tendency to play the violin.

So if classic Authors get away with it...
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Old 2009-01-28, 20:13   Link #5142
DezoPenguin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormturmoil View Post
The most extreme example from Classical literature I can think of is...Sherlock Holmes.

He's always right. He makes connections the paid professionals do not see, taking the place of the entire police establishment. He knows things the Goddamned Author doesn't know yet.
Narrator. Not the same thing at all.

Quote:
And all this is from the Dunce of the Family: Sherlock is a disapointment; his Doctor Older Brother Mycroft is the smart one of the family...
Where are you getting something like that? Mycroft is the smarter brother, but there's nothing in any story indicating that Sherlock is in any way a "disappointment" to his family...or that Mycroft holds a doctorate in anything, for that matter.

Quote:
His only real flaws are an entirely Spurious Drug habit that changes nothing about him, and a tendency to play the violin.
A severe bipolar disorder that drives him to work himself until his health fails when he's on a case ("The Reigate Puzzle" begins with that) while falling into a state of depression and lethargy when not prevented with brain-work to occupy his mind (as "The Sign of Four" points out, that's how the whole drug habit started), a social personality that's erratic at best, a number of very curious holes in his knowledge ("A Study in Scarlet," though admittedly at the beginning of his career), and a level of misogyny that drew comment from the Victorian-Era characters in the stories could add to that. Holmes's epic list of eccentricities gave rise to a vast array of imitators with equally long lists of weirdness which in the hands of writers nowhere near Conan Doyle's standard made less for interesting characters and more for annoyance.

And while lampooned often in movies, Holmes's violin-playing was just a hobby; he was actually competent at it by all accounts in canon.

However, none of that changes the fundamental truth of the following:

Quote:
So if classic Authors get away with it...
Like I said before, most of what we call "Mary Sue"-ism is just the features of a protagonist. The traits just get obvious and annoying when in the hands of incompetent writers, and exceedingly obnoxious when applied to an OC in a fandom where the OC isn't supposed to be a protagonist.
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Old 2009-01-29, 01:19   Link #5143
Wild Goose
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Actually, there's something which people forget about Sues:

The audience will not care about Sues if the Sue is well-written and entertaining.

Take Holmes - Canon Sue, but definately entertainng. Or Gibbs from NCIS, who's a Memetic Badass in fandom AND in-universe (according to Abby, the only thing that could defeat Gibbs is Evil Twin Gibbs, and even then Gibbs would probably win) and a Badass Normal. (Though he has many long years of service in the USMC, as shown by the fruit salad on his Class Cs in Ep1 of Season 2...)

But the cake has to go to mothereffing Sephiroth. Haxxed, overpowered, Sue. And everybody goes "Holy shit it's Sephiroth!"
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Old 2009-01-29, 02:30   Link #5144
MeisterBabylon
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Nandeyane?! 3 page Backlog?!

...but its a load of nonsense. <_<

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
I once voice acted for a megaman fangame before, but it was canceled.
I once VA'd in a Digimon fan Sound Stage... that never saw the light of day either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
lulz

Don't worry! Keroko taught me already that it's alright to think of guys as cute.
See it as a kind of GAR... he's GAR so it's okay to be gay for him!
I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with that statement when applying to Keroko...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
It's alright! It's alright! Daijoubu! Daijoubu! [/Chiho-chan]
Ah-ha...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Ugh... Not exactly the kind of trap many people would like to get subjected to...>_>
Prinny: Definitely! Definitely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
*whistles innocently*

What?
Konoyaro...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
I personally think you're missing the point... ^^;;
It has nothing to do with being GAR. It's about being a ludicrously convincing TRAP. Like this:

Spoiler for TRAP in the middle:


It doesn't help that Keroko acts accordingly. He pulls off the act so well that even I go at times...
Ke-Keroko acts so cute that it's been bugging me!!!

I really should stop my own tsundere tendencies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Any half-decent WoW capable computer can play KotoR. Go play KotoR.
No time now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Ah, no. Remember this Keroko is trained by Clones and fights alongside Clones, that includes riding Gunships, which as you know aren't exactly the mos stable of aircraft.
Can't say I didn't try asking...

Now my problem is finding a suitably sized craft that is somewhere between the size of a shuttle and a full cruiser to be Jormundgar... Preferably able to land a beefy starfighter and still have room for loot and cabins... StarWiki hasn't been helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
If resurecting him is her plan in the first place.
Even I don't know why he kept the Tome of Life Necromnicon when I last wrote about him... until 7Arcs dropped the reason right on my lap.

Now a month after she went to sleep, archaelogists found Ix's sarcophagus empty. Rumor mill points to Kluize having recovered the flagship of the Scourge, Grave...

All he needs now is the Sword in Snow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*Looks at Kha's twitching form*

Is this a case of 'death by moe?'
-_-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I'm a subject in the IRC chat now?
NOOOOOOOO!!!! *dies*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
There's better ones for him.

Spoiler for Like this one.:
*twitches again* >_>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
There is nothing wrong with thinking of guys as cute.

If what you see is cute, it's cute. If it happens to be a guy, who cares? If you see a male bunny, does that make it any less cute then a female one?

Cute is cute. Regardless of gender.

~~~~~~

*brzzt* Traps are merely guys that look and/or act like girls. Whether their identity as traps is known is irrelevant. Take Jun for example, the most famous of traps. Everybody knows he's a guy, they make that clear in the first scene he appears, and Jun himself doesn't deny it either. Yet, he's still a perfect trap, and even has a fanclub consisting of not only female, but male members as well.
I last want to hear all this coming from YOU! -__-

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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Wich is what I said.
Tasty sandWich is tasty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Moe AND denial...
Ch-chi-CHIGAIMASEN!!!!

...meep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
For longer than you think, dear Keroko. MUCH longer than you think.

Kha has been agonizing over how MOE you are thanks to the mood-avy's and been chanting, "He's a guy. X ###" for quite a while now...>_>

And of course, a number of us there have marveled at how convincing you are as a trap on a few occasions already...
/facepalm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
That's true enough. It's usually just the male pride that makes many of us guys go squick at the mere thought of finding another guy cute.
...and must I remind you that Anita does not let me live it down when I squick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*blink* I don't think I've been playing trap that hard lately...
EXACTLY!!! *veinpop* Because you don't try that's why it bugs me even more!!!

...eep again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
*takes notes on how Kha is interested in 'women'*
Erase. That. FROM YOUR MEMORY!!!

*punts Eva*

...oh god not again. D=

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Hey Darkwing Duck is plenty awesome! He's like batman, but a duck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
*High five*


Spoiler for DarkWing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Hey! I watched his show everyday when I was little, ok?

You don't need to tell me how awesome he is.
Quoted for Truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Oh hell yea. Darkwing Duck rules

Though the Masked Mallard was pretty bad-ass, too
Ah that game was awesome.
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Old 2009-01-29, 04:03   Link #5145
Keroko
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You shouldn't say that.
I should have said it was of the more of the stereotypical male pride. There's no reason to say you have little pride as a male since there's more to being a man than just being tough.
*shrug* Well if I do that's fine, if I don't, that's fine too.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Now it would appear that not only does the board not want me to make big long posts, but neither does my computer. Since I was just finishing one up when BAM blue screen of death.
Ah, yes frustrating that.

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Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
I based my definition of a Mary Sue on the idea that the character has a sort of "high plot gravity", which makes all the other character stories revolve around her, for no reason. I've always thought that Lumina had a gift for hijacking the scene. I mean, you can have a serious, desperate battle for your lives, but after Lumina's entry and battlecry of "THE ACNE OF EVIL SHALL BE CLEANSED BY THE DELICATE FACIAL TREATMENT OF JUSTICE", I don't think anyone can really concentrate on what happened before without at least going "wait, what?"
Myeah, that's one of the definitions. However just hijacking the attention does not make a Sue. Now, if there was a fight in which Nanoha and Fate were having extreme trouble fighting against an opponent, or even are losing, and then Lumina comes in, does her speech and single-handedly defeats the enemy without breaking as much as a sweat, then she has become a Mary Sue, as she didn't just hijack the scene, she hijacked the entire battle.

And even in this case, it can be written without turning her into a Sue. Sue's are complex creatures indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Nandeyane?! 3 page Backlog?!

...but its a load of nonsense. <_<
It's like the old days!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Now my problem is finding a suitably sized craft that is somewhere between the size of a shuttle and a full cruiser to be Jormundgar... Preferably able to land a beefy starfighter and still have room for loot and cabins... StarWiki hasn't been helpful.
Sounds like you're looking for a Corvette. Not extremely large, can be modified to carry a fighter or two, and is used by pretty much anyone to boot. Pirates and mercs included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Even I don't know why he kept the Tome of Life Necromnicon when I last wrote about him... until 7Arcs dropped the reason right on my lap.

Now a month after she went to sleep, archaelogists found Ix's sarcophagus empty. Rumor mill points to Kluize having recovered the flagship of the Scourge, Grave...

All he needs now is the Sword in Snow.
Oh, he's not going to get that one so easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
EXACTLY!!! *veinpop* Because you don't try that's why it bugs me even more!!!

...eep again.
Heh. Can't say I'm sorry.
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Old 2009-01-29, 09:14   Link #5146
Kagerou
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Wh....
What is this?
Before me, there are eight pages of backlog! TOO MUCH @____@. Waaaaaaahhhhhhh.......

*ahem*
I notice that everyone is still just like they always are, which is good, cause if they weren't, I'd be worried.

I promise I'll try and eventually get to everyone, but my life is... busy. If something demands to be read RIGHT NAO, then send me a PM please. It will be easier (and yes, Tempest, I know I have to read Gospel).

Also.......
<.<
>.>

*tackleglomps Keroko*

>:3

*Turns around and sticks tongue out at Kha*

Mein Kerokero.
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Old 2009-01-29, 09:23   Link #5147
MeisterBabylon
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It's like the old days!
Can't say I'm a fan of the old days, now that I'm a changed man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Sounds like you're looking for a Corvette. Not extremely large, can be modified to carry a fighter or two, and is used by pretty much anyone to boot. Pirates and mercs included.
That was what I had in mind, hence the name Jormundgar, for its long profile. I could also call it Hammerhead.

But I recall more Corvettes being shredded by turbolasers than owning... Having read what I've read, having a CR90 painted gray, with eyes on the sides and a fanged jaw in the front, bristling with lasers, a starfighter watching its blind spot, being the only CR90 in the galaxy able to outrun anything and be the terror of the Outer Rim...

Something doesn't quite add up. And I still don't know where is the V1 starfighter from Megaload City going to fit on that CR90...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh, he's not going to get that one so easily.
No wonder he hasn't gotten it. I predict an awesome raid coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Heh. Can't say I'm sorry.
I-it-it's not like I'm asking for an apology... And I'm not asking you to stop...

But...

ARGH WHAT AM I SAYING?!
D=

*storms off*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
*tackleglomps Keroko*

>:3

*Turns around and sticks tongue out at Kha*

Mein Kerokero.
*comes running back*

Wh-what?! Oi! What are you trying to do to Keroko!!! Let go!!!

*bats Kagerou with a broom*
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Old 2009-01-29, 11:52   Link #5148
Saint X
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*folds in*

Oh dear... and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go

*goes back to making his infodump look like a story*
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Old 2009-01-29, 12:22   Link #5149
Evangelion Xgouki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Nandeyane?! 3 page Backlog?!

...but its a load of nonsense. <_<
Pish. Like that's any different than before

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
I once VA'd in a Digimon fan Sound Stage... that never saw the light of day either.
Interesting... >_>

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Ke-Keroko acts so cute that it's been bugging me!!!

I really should stop my own tsundere tendencies...
Wasn't that Anita's job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
No time now...
There is always time for WoW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
NOOOOOOOO!!!! *dies*

*twitches again* >_>

I last want to hear all this coming from YOU! -__-
Hmmm...so what it appears to be is that, from Kha's oh-so over the top reactions, is that he is in denial about his true sidings on this 'concept.' Stop denying yourself anf embrace your true feelings

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
...eep again.
Erase. That. FROM YOUR MEMORY!!!

*punts Eva*

...oh god not again. D=
*is punted away*

*casts Levitate on self and lands safely*

You're merely denying yourself the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Ah that game was awesome.
I think we're talking more about the series

And a cookie for those who know where the Masked Mallard came from

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It's like the old days!
Woohoo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
Wh....
What is this?
Before me, there are eight pages of backlog! TOO MUCH @____@. Waaaaaaahhhhhhh.......

*ahem*
I notice that everyone is still just like they always are, which is good, cause if they weren't, I'd be worried.

I promise I'll try and eventually get to everyone, but my life is... busy. If something demands to be read RIGHT NAO, then send me a PM please. It will be easier (and yes, Tempest, I know I have to read Gospel).

Also.......
<.<
>.>

*tackleglomps Keroko*

>:3

*Turns around and sticks tongue out at Kha*

Mein Kerokero.
All this love triangle needs now if for Kha and Kagerou to do battle with music with Valkyries in combat

...and I see Fran in your Avatar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Can't say I'm a fan of the old days, now that I'm a changed man.
*cough* *snicker*

Sure, Kha. Suuurreeee

*snicker*
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Old 2009-01-29, 12:37   Link #5150
Tormenk
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Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Hmmm...so what it appears to be is that, from Kha's oh-so over the top reactions, is that he is in denial about his true sidings on this 'concept.' Stop denying yourself anf embrace your true feelings
I'm reminded of a parody which fits the current situation very well.

"Search it within your pants, you know it to be true.."



Quote:
All this love triangle needs now if for Kha and Kagerou to do battle with music with Valkyries in combat

...and I see Fran in your Avatar...
I see I'm not the only one who has read Franken Fran around here.

*Imagines Fran in the nanoverse*

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Old 2009-01-29, 12:53   Link #5151
Evangelion Xgouki
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Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I see I'm not the only one who has read Franken Fran around here.

*Imagines Fran in the nanoverse*


Oh boy...I dunno about that >_>

*beats thoughts of Fran being involved in Nanoha's recovery from the 'incident' from head*
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Old 2009-01-29, 13:05   Link #5152
Kyral
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
I-it-it's not like I'm asking for an apology... And I'm not asking you to stop...

But...

ARGH WHAT AM I SAYING?!
D=

*storms off*
Yare yare...


BUT DAMN!

All this talk about traps and male pride and... gah!

Do you know what you made me do!? DO YOU!!!??

Tch...

*throws pic and runs off*

Spoiler for Infiltrating Orussia:
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Old 2009-01-29, 13:39   Link #5153
Evangelion Xgouki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Yare yare...


BUT DAMN!

All this talk about traps and male pride and... gah!

Do you know what you made me do!? DO YOU!!!??

Tch...

*throws pic and runs off*

Spoiler for Infiltrating Orussia:


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



Just goes to show you never underestimate what crack (and khrack) will make you do.

Though I think Kha needs more frills and lace

*fflllleeeesssss*
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Old 2009-01-29, 17:19   Link #5154
Evangelion Xgouki
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I take no responsibility for what is about to read in this post. I blame it on several recent posts and crack.

Spoiler for I am:
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Old 2009-01-29, 17:59   Link #5155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
*comes running back*

Wh-what?! Oi! What are you trying to do to Keroko!!! Let go!!!

*bats Kagerou with a broom*
*Gets thwacked repeatedly*
Ow, ow, ow, ow, oi!

*grabs broom*
I called dibs, damnit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
*folds in*

Oh dear... and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go
<3



Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
All this love triangle needs now if for Kha and Kagerou to do battle with music with Valkyries in combat

...and I see Fran in your Avatar...
...an epic duel to win Kerokero's heart? I'm in .
Also, yes you do see a Fran in my avie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I see I'm not the only one who has read Franken Fran around here.

*Imagines Fran in the nanoverse*

Way ahead of you, Torm.
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Old 2009-01-29, 18:00   Link #5156
DezoPenguin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Yare yare...


BUT DAMN!

All this talk about traps and male pride and... gah!

Do you know what you made me do!? DO YOU!!!??

Tch...

*throws pic and runs off*

Spoiler for Infiltrating Orussia:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
I take no responsibility for what is about to read in this post. I blame it on several recent posts and crack.

Spoiler for I am:
It is a crazily good day for humor! If Eva's fic wasn't bad enough, that comic is hilarious, too!
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Old 2009-01-29, 18:31   Link #5157
TheShinySword
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Yare yare...


BUT DAMN!

All this talk about traps and male pride and... gah!

Do you know what you made me do!? DO YOU!!!??

Tch...

*throws pic and runs off*

Spoiler for Infiltrating Orussia:
It takes a true man to look good in a dress *laughs manically and flees*
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Old 2009-01-29, 21:21   Link #5158
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Yare yare...


BUT DAMN!

All this talk about traps and male pride and... gah!

Do you know what you made me do!? DO YOU!!!??

Tch...

*throws pic and runs off*

Spoiler for Infiltrating Orussia:
Not the first time. Anita once said commented that Kha, dressed in Knight Sister robes to infiltrate the all-female Gardrobe Academy, looked so cute it annoyed her. Though that was back when he had a ponytail though.

Now, he is less cute, but still perfectly fine (and irreproachably DFC). >=3

Oh, in this getup, he acts convincingly tsundere. (Feel free to add Anita yelling "Stop immitating me!!! "
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Old 2009-01-30, 00:19   Link #5159
itanshi1
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Post

Well this post sure is lively. I have a bunch of OCs, so I'll make profiles.

ShortsCrackOC
mtg xover stuffs (experimental, 5 OCs)
Spoiler for Hana Sebring (Updated 1-31-11):


Spoiler for Fury Tempest (updated aug 7 2010):


Spoiler for Serene Tempest (updated aug 7 2010):
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Last edited by itanshi1; 2011-02-14 at 04:00.
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Old 2009-01-30, 03:54   Link #5160
MeisterBabylon
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Age: 38
Oi-oi, Tempy, look what you've done. I hope you're gonna accept responsibility for the kids.

And when I read Seabring, I think of the late Bring Stability.

Just kidding. Yokozo, Itanshi-kun. Leave your lethargy at the door. Other than that, enjoy the ride.

Darn OCT never dies... Sigh...
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白露型駆逐艦の4番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★?
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