U.S. Politics Thread (2017 going forward)

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Gorbachev told NATO to not expand further to the east. But no! They expand it under the pretext of protection for the Baltics. However, NATO apparently don't have a solid purpose to exist after the Cold War. Either to dismantle it or reform into a new organization as they seem ineffective in fighting terrorism.

NATO didn't had to made any effort to expand to East, simply everybody who could just run away from Russia ASAP. It is simply much more attractive too Eastern European countries to be in American sphere of influence than in Russian one, because Russia is falling miserably on developing economically and on having "soft power". And that's a reason why for example Poland was eager to cooperate with USA and send soldiers to Afghanistan and Iraq. Russia was a country which failed here and started hostilities, I guess in future when China will look into Central and North Asia, Russia will change their altitude and realize that brinkmanship with Europe was idiotic. And giving a Kosovo independence without Serbia consent was a mistake, saying just in case if somebody want to respond "What about Kosovo".

I agree that NATO needs a reforms, but I'm falling to see how NATO is needed to fight with terrorism. For Europe direct danger exist within local communities, and I don't see how Leopard tanks are usable in European city, that's a job for police. From the other hands sending an army to Muslims countries is pointless now, because then they simply stop killing each other and start killing helpers. And Turkey needs to be kicked out of NATO soon.

[Dauerlutscher]

Refugees Detained at U.S. Airports, Prompting Legal Challenges to Trump’s Immigration Order

President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect Friday night. Refugees who were in the air on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.

The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.

It was unclear how many refugees and immigrants were being held nationwide in the aftermath of the executive order. The complaints were filed by a prominent group including the American Civil Liberties Union, the International Refugee Assistance Project at the Urban Justice Center, the National Immigration Law Center, Yale Law School’s Jerome N. Frank Legal Services Organization and the firm Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton.

The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the U.S. government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for a U.S. contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men were detained at the airport Friday night after arriving on separate flights.

The attorneys said they were not allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.

“Who is the person we need to talk to?” asked one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project. “Mr. President,” said a Customs and Border Protection agent, who declined to identify himself. “Call Mr. Trump.”

In the arrivals hall at Terminal 4 of Kennedy Airport, Mr. Doss and two other lawyers fought fatigue as they tried to learn the status of their clients on the other side of the security perimeter.

“We’ve never had an issue once one of our clients was at a port of entry in the United States,” Mr. Doss said. “To see people being detained indefinitely in the country that’s supposed to welcome them is a total shock.”

“These are people with valid visas and legitimate refugee claims who have already been determined by the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security to be admissible and to be allowed to enter the U.S. and now are being unlawfully detained,” Mr. Doss said.

Relatives crowded the living room in their pajamas and slippers, making and receiving phone calls to and from other relatives and the refugee’s lawyers. At times, D. was so emotional she had trouble speaking about her husband’s predicament.

She pulled out her cellphone and flipped through her pictures while seated on the couch. She wanted to show a reporter a picture she took of her son’s letter to Santa Claus. In November, at a Macy’s Santa-letter display at a nearby mall, the boy wrote out his wish: “Dear Santa: Can you bring my Dad from Sweden pls.” He has not seen his father in three years. “I’m really breaking down, because I don’t know what to do,” she said. “It’s not fair.”

Spoiler for This is how they act in public when it ain't legal to be racist, but now that they've got power appearances be damned:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SpeakerRy...45524132524032

[James Rye]

Isn't that illegal though to bare people entry because of their religion/nationality?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by James Rye

Isn't that illegal though to bare people entry because of their religion/nationality?

So is torture. That didn't stop Trump for that either.

[Key Board]

That's not even coherent.
Those countries instead of the big elephant in the room?
Saudi Arabia?

[Ithekro]

Saudi Arabia is not war torn, so it won't have refugees, nor have Americans been fighting people within its borders recently. Last time that happened was 1991 when US, Saudi, and other allied forces were fighting Iraq.

That is were the logic end. That Saudi natives have been terrorists and supporters of attacks against US and allied forces is not part of the equation it would seem.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Saudi Arabia?

Saudi have power over the USA. Money and oil.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

That is were the logic end. That Saudi natives have been terrorists and supporters of attacks against US and allied forces is not part of the equation it would seem.

The sad part is than it might be a optimist view, the real reason(s) might be worse than that.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Draco Spirit

Heard of nothing to suggest Trudeau in trouble. Half of the issues that cause Trump and Brexit don't seem to be present in Canada.. through Merkel future has a lot of ???? in it for sure with the migrant related troubles and the EUs future looking pretty harsh.

You probably aren't on social media

http://i.imgur.com/1hC44ln.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nyZWMHH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/INPOWhJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PPuLwYt.jpg

that's the kind of tweets Trudeau is getting

I'm incredibly pessimistic

[Dauerlutscher]

"Green card holders were handcuffed, their social media was reviewed, and they were asked their views on Trump"

https://twitter.com/tparsi?lang=de


http://www.vox.com/2017/1/28/1442515...n-muslim-trump

Hours after Trump signs Muslim ban, Texas mosque goes up in flames

Trump Visa Ban Also Applies to Citizens With Dual Nationality, State Department Says

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Key Board

You probably aren't on social media

http://i.imgur.com/1hC44ln.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nyZWMHH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/INPOWhJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PPuLwYt.jpg

that's the kind of tweets Trudeau is getting

I'm incredibly pessimistic

Just a few people writing rubbish. Honestly, I don't see the Conservative party in Canada being able to pull it back soon. Stephen Harper was one off who took advantage of the Liberal party's difficulties in finding a good leader after the Jean Chretien/Paul Martin duo was gone. The reality though is that Harper gutted so many things to try reaching a zero deficit budget, but it did not stop job and trade losses. Harper had charisma, but it was just not enough to keep him in office.

Some in people in Canada try to draw parallels between a man named Kevin O'Leary and Donald Trump, but O'Leary's platform is extremely boring in itself. Furthermore, there is one reality that is unique to Canada and not very favorable to conservative candidates of a certain kind: French-speaking Quebec and its own socio-political reality. In the race for the Conservative leadership, O'Leary announced his run after avoiding the only French language debate organized by the party. Considering that Quebec leans quite on the left of the spectrum for starters, having that language "handicap" as well is not a good starting point. That's not say that Atlantic provinces and a big chunk of Ontario share similar sociopolitical values with Quebec. Having mentioned that, it is hardly a good breeding ground for a more radicalized version of right-wing values even if populists infiltrate the Conservative party.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

-snip-

Every time I feel like "y'know what? It's 2017. We've come a long way in our human history", shit like this happens and I'm reminded of how our species is just a litany of savagery with moments of peace sprinkled throughout. "Religion and Government are intertwined"; tell me guys, what would Jesus do? Would Jesus enable bombing the Holy shit out of a region and then stop them from trying to escape? Would Jesus try to make sure the sick aren't taken care of? Tell me conservatives: why weren't you against Trump when Hillary is the quintessential Republican? You realize this is actively going backwards, right? Tell me, Democratic hacks; was it worth it defending a system that bred a monster like this? Was it worth it not calling Hillary the lesser of two evils?

Mother of God

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Every time I feel like "y'know what? It's 2017. We've come a long way in our human history", shit like this happens and I'm reminded of how our species is just a litany of savagery with moments of peace sprinkled throughout. "Religion and Government are intertwined"; tell me guys, what would Jesus do? Would Jesus enable bombing the Holy shit out of a region and then stop them from trying to escape? Would Jesus try to make sure the sick aren't taken care of? Tell me conservatives: why weren't you against Trump when Hillary is the quintessential Republican? You realize this is actively going backwards, right? Tell me, Democratic hacks; was it worth it defending a system that bred a monster like this? Was it worth it not calling Hillary the lesser of two evils?

Mother of God

You rightfully earned this Presidency. Trump supporters who didn't think he'd act on what he said in his campaign (It's just talk folks!) and you "lefties" who always put everyone to a purity test have welcomed fascism into this country. Stop bitching when you're the problem.

[Applehell]

The American people did not elect Trump, the EC did. That's why he won't shut up about it, it's a huge blow to his ego. But it's definitely true that infighting in the Left and Jill Stein helped unintentonally make easier to put him in WH. Let's not even pretend Hilary would have anywhere the same, whatever some minute grievances you might have had with her, she is at least humane. For that matter people like Trump and Bannon have alway been around and they got 8n when they started getting a voice thanks to decades of conversative garbage from FOX and Repubs turn on their own beliefs becauae they now fear the fringe part of they base that has now near competely eroded their voting base.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Applehell

The American people did not elect Trump, the EC did. That's why he won't shut up about it, it's a huge blow to his ego. But it's definitely true that infighting in the Left and Jill Stein helped unintentonally make easier to put him in WH. Let's not even pretend Hilary would have anywhere the same, whatever some minute grievances you might have had with her, she is at least humane.

All I hear is excuses. I don't buy it. Americans seem to have this delusion that the voters are somehow not part of the government. The American 100% elected Trump, whether individuals voted or not. I find it rather sad that Americans find it so easy to abdocate responsibility like their government had nothing to do with them.

And no, I don't care that America is a republic and not a democracy. That doesn't work with me either. Own it, own the choice of the people. Until you do, there will be other Trumps.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

All I hear is excuses. I don't buy it. Americans seem to have this delusion that the voters are somehow not part of the government.

The American 100% elected Trump, whether individuals voted or not. I find it rather sad that Americans find it so easy to abdocate responsibility like their government had nothing to do with them.

And no, I don't care that America is a republic and not a democracy. That doesn't work with me either. Own it, own the choice of the people. Until you do, there will be other Trumps

We aren't. We can try only elect those who best representative our views and protest the ones who don't and make them pay in the layer elections or hold them acountable on their misdeeds. If you kmow anything about our political system the US comprised of a deverse group of people with multiples views. Trying to force a blanket statement on all of us when clearly obivious we are divided by the numerous protects, and various voices throughout the net is exact the kinds of things that Facisim and Racism thrives off. It's akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists. Discredit Trump and his supporters but don't go shitshaming people who never voted for him or opposed from the get go. Things are shit, but don't replace reality for extremes.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Applehell

We aren't. We can try only elect the who best respresntative our views and protest the ones who don't and make them pay in the layer elections or call them out misdeeds. If you kmow anything about our political system the US comprised of a deverse group of people with multiples views. Trying to force a blanket statement on all of us when clearly obivious we don't by numerous protects, and various throughout the net is exact the kinds of things that Facisim and racism thrives off. It's akin to saying all Mulisms are terrorists. Discredit Trump and his supporters but don't go shitshaming people who never voted for him. Things are shit, but don't replace reality for extremes.

Then you just made it clear that there will be more Trumps elected. Because you have already decided that Trump doesn't represent the country that elected him, you have no reason to change anything. That is a choice, the same as not voting is a choice. Or write in Sanders even though Sanders told his supporters not to.

This isn't a matter of morality or principles. This is a matter of Americans believing that they are not part of their government. That somehow, Clinton needed to "earn" their vote for her, because Americans believe it doesn't matter if Trump won. Because both Left and Right of America believe government can't really be useful for anything.

Because Americans don't actually believe in elections.

[Draco Spirit]

I can't help but feel that part of the reason Trump ultimately and fairly won (your government using a EC system.. plan accordingly folks ) was because the Left did two separate but interconnected things.

A) Demonize people at the drop of a hat rather than discuss issues like a sane person- agreeing to disagree is not a naughty idea and being pro-life/fracking/border control doesn't make you Hitler.

B) Turn on the media venom to 200% all the time on his every action. Constantly saying someone is pure evil 24/7 in every action just tend to leave people numb to your words and distrustful of your 'facts'. Seriously I'm sure if I hunted Goggle hard enough, I be able to find article trying to prove that Trumps favorite song/food/animal is a sign that he in fact Hitler reborn... and it probably be a mainstream news site sadly.

Put these two together and you get big enough portion of the USA population feeling alienated (Since your sure to demonize them on something sooner or latter) and distrustful of the media, that they just concluded Trumps is in exactly the same boat as them and the best choice to fix things.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

You rightfully earned this Presidency. Trump supporters who didn't think he'd act on what he said in his campaign (It's just talk folks!) and you "lefties" who always put everyone to a purity test have welcomed fascism into this country. Stop bitching when you're the problem.

And us Bernie Bros kept going "wtf" as Hillary continued to run a shitty corporatist campaign because even if the Berniecrats fell in line, most Americans are only seeing the message Trump and Hillary were pushing (mainstream TV news media sure did a bang-up job attacking Trump). Tell me again what happened to the Democratic Firewall?

[Applehell]

Once again Trump is bypassing normal procedures and behaving like an autocratic.

The Homeland Security & the Department of Justice we not notifled of these EOs. He's further pissing off goverment officials.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BraddJaff...45791905021952
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarw...44703516651523

This is REALLY scary.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Then you just made it clear that there will be more Trumps elected. Because you have already decided that Trump doesn't represent the country that elected him, you have no reason to change anything. That is a choice, the same as not voting is a choice. Or write in Sanders even though Sanders told his supporters not to.

This isn't a matter of morality or principles. This is a matter of Americans believing that they are not part of their government. That somehow, Clinton needed to "earn" their vote for her, because Americans believe it doesn't matter if Trump won. Because both Left and Right of America believe government can't really be useful for anything.

Because Americans don't actually believe in elections.

People like Trump can be elected anywhere. Alt-right nationalism are on rise throughout europe. What is happening the UK and US are just examples. The world in general has gotten too complacent in this sort of thing "because we constantly thinking it can't happen here"... until does. Besides plenty of people on the left at least (with some on the right) believe in a strong goverment with checks and balance. That's why we are voting at all to begin with against the opposition. It's Right-Wing that has continuously brainwashed it's constituents into thinkimg the opposite is better.