Gundam 00 Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[SonicSP]

Makes sense,I guess I'd thought it was the head since there was alot of footage of the head before the cockpit opened up but checking it again your right.

It seems that Mark just told me that the large cone device at the back of Susanowo is a GN-Condenser for the powered saber.Matches with all those other smaller pointy objects on the limbs as well.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Yay! We have a topic to take us another 10 pages!

It's been a while.

[Rising Dragon]

Yes, I was referring to the profile information for the Masurao/Susanowo. Susanowo's stated that the hip claws were thruster units with attached claws; that's why I doubt they're both GN-Drive[T]s. If the GN-Drive[T](s) for the Masurao can be pinpointed, maybe then I can believe the information.

I'm hesitant to believe it has two due to the fact that its such a slim machine; there's not a whole lot of places to put one GN-Drive[T] on it, let alone two. And unlike the original GN-Drives, whose size depend on their stabilizer housings, the GN-Drive[T] seems to only come in a single size and conical-shaped to boot. After all, as we saw in the Celestial Being, the line of GN-Drives... and they were all conical in shape despite there being possibly more efficient housings for such a use.

[Gai Incognito]

Susanowo's stated that the hip claws were thruster units with attached claws; that's why I doubt they're both GN-Drive[T]s.

Can you point out where it says that? The GN Claws don't even have a profile.

I'm hesitant to believe it has two due to the fact that its such a slim machine; there's not a whole lot of places to put one GN-Drive[T] on it, let alone two. And unlike the original GN-Drives, whose size depend on their stabilizer housings, the GN-Drive[T] seems to only come in a single size and conical-shaped to boot. After all, as we saw in the Celestial Being, the line of GN-Drives... and they were all conical in shape despite there being possibly more efficient housings for such a use.

Let's assume the Masuroa/Susanowo don't have two drives in their hip binders. Then the Throne Eins, Throne Zwei, Throne Drei, Arche Gundam, GRM Gundam, Gadessa, Garazzo, Gaddess, Gaga, Masurao, Susanowo, Empruss, and Regnant seem to be lacking these "single size, conical-shaped" GN Drives you refer to. There's more variance in Tau Drive design than you're suggesting. Then there's the Black Astraea, Black Sadalsuud, etc etc, which utilize Tau Drives while retaining their original GN Drive pieces rather than having to switch them all to conical ones.

Alternatively; the hip binders sure do resemble the cones you describe, encased in extra armor:
http://www.imagebeast.net/images/pz5...uizk1zc2ng.jpg

[Funkatron]

Solar Elevators that could power the world plausible?
According to this article, it would take the surface area of Spain (496,905 square Kilometers) to power the entire world. Not sure where they got thier numbers, but someone needs to speculate on the surface area of the various solar panels in the elevator array in 00. Makes you believe that solar generated power for the whole world could be possible

[SoranGTR]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Solar Elevators that could power the world plausible?
According to this article, it would take the surface area of Spain (496,905 square Kilometers) to power the entire world. Not sure where they got thier numbers, but someone needs to speculate on the surface area of the various solar panels in the elevator array in 00. Makes you believe that solar generated power for the whole world could be possible

Actually the idea of the orbital elevator isnt new, it's been touched upon in some sci-fi books like Arthur C. Clarke's 3001 (Where there are several elevators around the world all connected to a ring around the equator)

The problem however is trying to find the resources and materials to construct it. At this moment the only alloys and other materials that have suitable properties to build the elevators out of exist only in small amounts in chemical labs. Another issue would be cost, and this is where i like how the Gundam 00 universe comprises of 3 large and allied entities, since even large and wealthy countries like the US and China will be bankrupted if they were to undertake such a project on their own

[Death Header]

I am happy that Masuruo and probably by extention Susanowo as well,has 2 Drives.It makes it easier to understand why it can match 00 in close combat in the extreme short run,though it still far lags behind 00 in terms of overall abilities like full GN-Fields powerful beam shots,but the difference is understandable because of the difference of power due to TDS.The Masuruo/Susanowo is alot like Exia actually,melee focus with some low level other abilities.

Since the official files state that Susanowo has Two Drives instead of one, there's a chance that Susanowo might have actually been stronger than the 00 Raiser when it comes to speed and power. Since Tau Drives can be adjusted to whatever role it has, the output of the drives could have rivaled 00 Raiser's output.

There's also a chance that the Susanowo was 'secretly' embedded with a Twin Drive system like Reborns Gundam since the Susanowo was created during the 4-month skip. Can someone clarify me on this?

[Gai Incognito]

No way, something as randomly absurd as the Masurao/Susanowo magically having a Tau TDS before Ribbons even got the TDS data from Anew is something that would have been mentioned long ago. They're hardly the first unit to have multiple drives, too, so somehow matching the ridiculous squared output of 00 Raiser's GN Drives isn't going to happen just because it has two Drives as well.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Death Header

Since the official files state that Susanowo has Two Drives instead of one, there's a chance that Susanowo might have actually been stronger than the 00 Raiser when it comes to speed and power. Since Tau Drives can be adjusted to whatever role it has, the output of the drives could have rivaled 00 Raiser's output.

There's also a chance that the Susanowo was 'secretly' embedded with a Twin Drive system like Reborns Gundam since the Susanowo was created during the 4-month skip. Can someone clarify me on this?

Non factual, the only reason the Susanowo fought on par with the 00 Raiser was because of Mr. Bushido's incredible skill.

Trans-Am gave his skill a slight edge, but when it all comes down to the end result, the 00-Raiser will always win.

[Polar_Lord]

Originally Posted by Gai Incognito

Let's assume the Masuroa/Susanowo don't have two drives in their hip binders. Then the Throne Eins, Throne Zwei, Throne Drei, Arche Gundam, GRM Gundam, Gadessa, Garazzo, Gaddess, Gaga, Masurao, Susanowo, Empruss, and Regnant seem to be lacking these "single size, conical-shaped" GN Drives you refer to. There's more variance in Tau Drive design than you're suggesting. Then there's the Black Astraea, Black Sadalsuud, etc etc, which utilize Tau Drives while retaining their original GN Drive pieces rather than having to switch them all to conical ones.

I don't mean to be nitpicky, but if IRC the Gadessa, Garazzo and Gaddess all have "single size, conical-shaped" GN Drives on their escape units.

[Rising Dragon]

My statement was referring to the singular, suit-less GN-Drive[T]s themselves, actually. When we see them not attached to a suit, they are conical in shape and the same size as every other one.

But if you want to get technical, on the Gundam Throne Zwei and on the Gaga, you can see conical GN-Drive casings. Zwei's is a bit hidden by the backpack, but observation of models allow you to see the sides of it. Similarly, the Drei's conical drive casing is partly revealed when the Gundam Throne was butchered by the Regnant's GN-Fangs. And the Gadessa, Garazzo, and Gaddess all retain the conical Drive configuration, as Polar_Lord so kindly pointed out. Empruss and Regnant are big enough where you could completely encase the GN-Drives without exposing them at all.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yes, I was referring to the profile information for the Masurao/Susanowo. Susanowo's stated that the hip claws were thruster units with attached claws; that's why I doubt they're both GN-Drive[T]s. If the GN-Drive[T](s) for the Masurao can be pinpointed, maybe then I can believe the information.

I'm hesitant to believe it has two due to the fact that its such a slim machine; there's not a whole lot of places to put one GN-Drive[T] on it, let alone two. And unlike the original GN-Drives, whose size depend on their stabilizer housings, the GN-Drive[T] seems to only come in a single size and conical-shaped to boot. After all, as we saw in the Celestial Being, the line of GN-Drives... and they were all conical in shape despite there being possibly more efficient housings for such a use.

Who's to say Billy didn't develop some other form of casing for the drives in Masurao?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Ya know, of all the suits in 00, I don't think one has been talked about more than the Masurao/Susanowo.

[jonli]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Ya know, of all the suits in 00, I don't think one has been talked about more than the Masurao/Susanowo.

I'm pretty sure 00Raiser is equally popular on the subject.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Death Header

Since the official files state that Susanowo has Two Drives instead of one, there's a chance that Susanowo might have actually been stronger than the 00 Raiser when it comes to speed and power. Since Tau Drives can be adjusted to whatever role it has, the output of the drives could have rivaled 00 Raiser's output.

There's also a chance that the Susanowo was 'secretly' embedded with a Twin Drive system like Reborns Gundam since the Susanowo was created during the 4-month skip. Can someone clarify me on this?

First of all,Tau Drives don't have the ability to specially "adjust" to whatever role that they can.And if they do,then the Original Drives would possess the exact same ability.Masuruo and Susanowo would always lose out in terms of particles.

The reason on why Masuruo had any chance againts 00 was mainly because of 00's own limitation.00 was designed as a general purpose suit,much in the way Astraea was.It can perform on high levels in many different areas.It's range can match even the Gadessa's and with large beams too as Hilling mentioned in S213.In conjunction to this,its a capable melee fighter as any other specialed melee suit out there and has good mobility and speed as well.The mobility and speed got a great boost from 0-Raiser equiment.Even 00 Gundam alone has shown quite good speed as we've seen from S209.

It being a General Purpose suit means that it can diverse in areas and its high GN output allows it to excel in many of these areas.The good thing about having this type of MS is that it can be used for just about anything.Seravee has good raw attack power which is useful for large targets like ships but its bad at close range combat againts suits like Garazzo.The 00 possess no such limitations,you can send it to target large targets AND do well againts assalt MS like Garazzo.Literally a "Jack of All Trades;Specialise in None".

Now,the part "Specialise in None" means just that,00 does not specialise in any single field.Its performance in diverse fields is on high level,matching or close to their respective non TDS specialists,but having diverse fields mean that 00 cannot use its raw extremely high particle output to specialise in one field.It cannot,for example,be a Squared Output Dynames,base on its current design.

A possible reasoning on why it cannot do so is probably because of MS technology.To put it simply,to design a Squared output level suit that specialise in a single Field; may not necessarily be possible yet with current Generation technogy.In other words,producing a an extremly high level specialise suit that uses squared output fully;lets say for example Sniping,may not be done because the MS technology has not reached such levels yet.

Here's an example of what I'm trying to say in the paragraph above.The Original 0-Gundam,has alot of excess particles and despite it being equiped with a GN-Drive,it cannot do any of the specialised stunts that future generation can do.Why?Simply,the MS technology is not cannot harness those particles as well to convert them into Useful Energy;AKA Beams,Thrust,GN-Fields.

The reason on why Susanowo can match 00 in speed and melee is because......00's melee attacks and speed are just "Medium Squared Output Standard" ..While Susanowo melee and speed can be considered a "High Non-Squared Output Standard.Furthermore,Susanowo's close combat strategy does not allow 00 to use its other high level area abilities;mostly.

The Susanowo,being a non-squared suit,is using up its GN-Drives to the limits,while 00 is not even harnesing all of its particles because its MS Technology lags far behind its Drive Technology,just like in the case of the Original 0 Gundam.

Even this,its hard to measure the actual raw power of 00,it literally broke Susanowo's swords with its arms.

Calculation-wise,the Wasted Potential Particles of 00 that is not used in normal form,is probably amplified when the suit goes into Trans-Am.

In the longer run fight,one that is more prolonged,00's advantage widens even more because it does not suffer from a Dirve Time Limit,which in the cases of the GN-Xs of 00V,is not really that long.

Furthermore,in a Trans-Am fight,00 would almost certainly be the victor as long it does not get destroyed during the phase because Susanowo's Drives get destroyed after Trans-Am.For these 2 reasons,it is a good strategy for Graham to finish off the fight as quickly as he could.

Regarding the possibility of Susanowo Twin Drive......the chances are really low.First of all the Twin Drive info came from Anew,it never went through Billy and since Ribbons did not provide his own closest comrades with them,very low chance he'll provide it to a lowly human.Knowing his personality and how much he values the Twin Drive,fit for the True Innovator that he claims to be.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Non factual, the only reason the Susanowo fought on par with the 00 Raiser was because of Mr. Bushido's incredible skill.

Trans-Am gave his skill a slight edge, but when it all comes down to the end result, the 00-Raiser will always win.

In addition to the 00's "Specialise in None" reasoning I laid out above,Graham has his better skills and experience which I think is significant for a man who have proven himself time and time again to do well againts much more powerful suits.In addition to this,he has the Veda Backup.However piloting-wise,
Setsuna has a Quantum Brainwave advantage though his real skills are probably improved as well,though I still think its far from Graham even now.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

My statement was referring to the singular, suit-less GN-Drive[T]s themselves, actually. When we see them not attached to a suit, they are conical in shape and the same size as every other one.

But if you want to get technical, on the Gundam Throne Zwei and on the Gaga, you can see conical GN-Drive casings. Zwei's is a bit hidden by the backpack, but observation of models allow you to see the sides of it. Similarly, the Drei's conical drive casing is partly revealed when the Gundam Throne was butchered by the Regnant's GN-Fangs. And the Gadessa, Garazzo, and Gaddess all retain the conical Drive configuration, as Polar_Lord so kindly pointed out. Empruss and Regnant are big enough where you could completely encase the GN-Drives without exposing them at all.

The thing is,the GN-Drive Taus,can really come in any shape or sizes;possibility.This is simply because they are an item produced in the present,not a century ago that stays the same.Not only can new casings be made but new types and shapes and sizes of Tau Drives can be too,its not impossible.

When it comes to this issue,the Taus are not restricted the same ways as the Trues.The 5 True Drives will always remain the same exact 5 True Drives no matter and they cannot be modified because the Drives cannot be de-activated.As powerful as they are,the True Drives are relics of a distant past.

When it comes to Taus,new size and shape is always possible because they are created in the present,so newer better and more powerful and compact designs are always possible.Your mostly right when it comes to the conical issue but it does not have to remain conical all the time just because of a previous pattern.

We must also not forget just how special the Masuruo is,its the first Tau suit to be able to do Trans-Am,not to mention one of those to not use a Gundam design or even based on a Gundam previously.The GNZs and Aheads all have Gundams in them,while the GN-X has been mentioned to be just mass-produced Thrones in the World Report,so for the Masuruo to break with the norm is not such a big deal.

This reminds be a bit of the 00-Drive Issue that happened not long before S2 started,where everyone was wondering how can the Drives fit into 00's shoulders when they were showed to be so big in S1?A statement was released confirmaing that 00 has 2 Drives later,at first glance this issue contradicts the series facts of the Drive's size and its not easy to make on either but later info released gave us a good explanation for it.

We got the answer later when the true size of the Drive was showed to us and that the rest was just Casing.In the current case of the Masuruo,even if something were to seem contradictory,a good answer would probably be released eventually;knowing Bandai and their recolor releases,no doubt they'll be releasing a Masuruo kit at some point.I dont see any large problems with this issue yet,not as large as the 00 Drive Issue was at first anyway.

By the way,this was the 2nd source to actually mention Masuruo having more than one Drive,the first one was released a few months ago.It was mentioned at a site that sells Masuruo figurines,in a short profile.In other words,a third party source so most of us did not bother with it so much.

But in the case of the MS Illustrated 09 [fixed],its as valid as any other source book.The book even mentioned for the first time the model numbers of several Black Version suits.

I have yet to heard of source that directly mentioned that Masuruo and Susanowo contain one Drive directly,it just went unmentioned and was the primary assumption and it was a resonable one until this book came out,with this they are no appearant contradiction problems.Now that it has,until any future retcons,the Masuruo has became a Multi-Drive MS at the Grey-Level Official in the series.





Wow.........I sure spent alot of time writing that up.I'm gonna be sleep deprived again to day.

[Gai Incognito]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

But if you want to get technical, on the Gundam Throne Zwei and on the Gaga, you can see conical GN-Drive casings. Zwei's is a bit hidden by the backpack, but observation of models allow you to see the sides of it. Similarly, the Drei's conical drive casing is partly revealed when the Gundam Throne was butchered by the Regnant's GN-Fangs. And the Gadessa, Garazzo, and Gaddess all retain the conical Drive configuration, as Polar_Lord so kindly pointed out. Empruss and Regnant are big enough where you could completely encase the GN-Drives without exposing them at all.

You're completely missing the point. The GN Drive cones seen on the Throne trio, the GNZ trio, and Gaga all represent deviations in size and shape from this "single size, conical Drive" thing you're pushing. You also mention how the Throne cones are almost 'hidden' beneath other equipment, and the GNZ drives are perfectly incorporated into the core fighters and don't particularly stand out.

Both are wonderful examples of how GN Drives can be incorporated into the frame of an MS, and how the Masurao/Susanowo could easily have them in its hip binders, despite your assertion that it doesn't have the room.

But in the case of the MS Encyclopedia 09,its as valid as any other source book.

At least quote the right name; MS Illustrated 2009.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by jonli

I'm pretty sure 00Raiser is equally popular on the subject.

True, but when the Masurao came into the picture, that's pretty much all we talked about.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Is it me, or is a defense rod a poor excuse for a defensive weapon?

[fizzmaister]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Is it me, or is a defense rod a poor excuse for a defensive weapon?

Not really, it's less massive and cumbersome than a physical shield so it doesn't significantly reduce the agility of the mobile suit that uses it. This is in-line with the Union's and AEU's military philosophy of speed over armor. The way the rod works is that by spinning really fast it gives the same result as shooting at something at a steep angle; instead of penetrating, a bullet will ricochet.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by fizzmaister

Not really, it's less massive and cumbersome than a physical shield so it doesn't significantly reduce the agility of the mobile suit that uses it. This is in-line with the Union's and AEU's military philosophy of speed over armor. The way the rod works is that by spinning really fast it gives the same result as shooting at something at a steep angle; instead of penetrating, a bullet will ricochet.

While I do get this, the rods aren't used that way in Gundam 00 as we've seen. Whenever the defense rods have been used, the rod simply rotates until its in line with the shot, and blocks it before reverting back into position. It doesn't work like, say, UC's beam rotors (which I'm assuming works like how you described the defense rod; I haven't actually seen beam rotors in action).