(L+CR) Ginga Kikotai Majestic Prince

[CJ_Walker]

SO. . . .the MAIN question that popped up in my head was:

"Why not just send your Wulgaru women down to earth and mate with the Men there? Then bring them to planet Wulgaru or whatever You'd have babies with species that won't die off (due to "genetic old age?" or whatever) and you wouldn't need to waste time fighting shit all the time. I mean I'm pretty sure both species can mate with each other. (think Tamaki&Nadeel)"

But of course there would be no show.

So yeah. . .

Ill just ignore that explanation and watch the show because I actually enjoy it

Edit: Ninja'd by Irenshadada as he pretty much said what I was thinking(but I was too lazy to write all that stuff)

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Ep.10, first half:

Spoiler:

-- This is becoming a running gag now: Rabbits invading a different Rabbit bedroom every week (today is Kei's)

Rabbits prefer not to be alone.

[ReddyRedWolf]

So they went with proginator route for the Wulgaru.

Every 300 years they target advanced civilizations like Earth.

The literal culture of rape is a justification of forced assimilation of other races to their gene pool.

Good thing Izuru isn't a girl unless Jiart swing that way...


Oh yeah the jelly is strong with Kei. Maybe she should be more honest like Tamaki.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

Edit: Ninja'd by Irensharda as she pretty much said what I was thinking(but I was too lazy to write all that stuff)

Fixed it for you.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

SO. . . .the MAIN question that popped up in my head was:

"Why not just send your Wulgaru women down to earth and mate with the Men there? Then bring them to planet Wulgaru or whatever You'd have babies with species that won't die off (due to "genetic old age?" or whatever) and you wouldn't need to waste time fighting shit all the time. I mean I'm pretty sure both species can mate with each other. (think Tamaki&Nadeel)"

But of course there would be no show.

Uh yeah there would be a show but not the kind that you're thinking

So they went with proginator route for the Wulgaru.

Every 300 years they target advanced civilizations like Earth.

The literal culture of rape is a justification of forced assimilation of other races to their gene pool.

Good thing Izuru isn't a girl unless Jiart swing that way...

Exactly how does one "harvest" genes when you're blowing them up in space with plasma fire?

It's like hunting a great white shark with a cruise missile. Sure it looks nice but is there going to be anything left afterwards?

Oh yeah the jelly is strong with Kei. Maybe she should be more honest like Tamaki.

Both her and Asagi seem to have the same problem and they'll probably develop this as the show goes on. At the moment 3 of the team members that are pretty much "easy going" have adapted well to their units. It's only the other two but as we've seen they got something that's blocking them from reaching their potential.

Next, the Wulgaru did this by sending their "genes" through the universe and their "genes" sowed their wild oats creating all these different peoples? Yeah, umm, I've already said this but I think I may need to reiterate: GENES/DNA DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Genes do not just fly off into space and land on planets and create totally new whole organisms. Genes may be the building blocks of an organism, but you need more than just genes and genes alone. DNA is NOT an independent entity. It does not have a "want to survive" and it does not fly through the galaxy seeding its wild oats.

Have you watched Prometheus?

Spoiler:

The human race was created by an Engineer who sacrificed himself by ingesting a black fluid that broke his DNA down when he was on Earth

That's the first thing that came to mind when it was being explained.

In addition, why did they even introduce that plot point with the Wulgaru seeding their "genes" throughout space in order to save themselves? First off, the Wulgaru DNA is degrading? They seem to be perfectly fine to me. Also, if they are the starters of all these different species, then the time of their so-called survival problem started billions, if not trillions of years ago. You guys have survived this long, how is your race in any danger

Well it's probably because their species has reached it's evolutionary peak. That kind of plot has been used before in other series.

It does make the Wulgaru more sympathetic as simply defeating them now would just result in the complete destruction of their race.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Now, to what I didn't like (Warning: Get ready for a rant):

Next, the Wulgaru did this by sending their "genes" through the universe and their "genes" sowed their wild oats creating all these different peoples? Yeah, umm, I've already said this but I think I may need to reiterate: GENES/DNA DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Genes do not just fly off into space and land on planets and create totally new whole organisms. Genes may be the building blocks of an organism, but you need more than just genes and genes alone. DNA is NOT an independent entity. It does not have a "want to survive" and it does not fly through the galaxy seeding its wild oats.

Actualy that's exactly what genes do. It's called mutation. You don't even need another planets to see that. Here on Earth we have race Caucasoid (europena type), mongoloid race (asiats) and negroid race (afroamericans), each of them dispose unique appearence and physical dispositions. Also while Genes itself doesn't have "will to survive" it contain record of it and so it can be readed.
Simply said GENES DO WORK THAT WAY.

In addition, why did they even introduce that plot point with the Wulgaru seeding their "genes" throughout space in order to save themselves? First off, the Wulgaru DNA is degrading? They seem to be perfectly fine to me. Also, if they are the starters of all these different species, then the time of their so-called survival problem started billions, if not trillions of years ago. You guys have survived this long, how is your race in any danger?

Universe itself were supposed be 13,7 bilions years old and first humans on earth (homo erectus) appeared 1,8 milions earth ago, but due our similiarity with Vulgarus it wouldn't be suprising if seed were Homo sapiens which are even younger. Anyaway if they have live spam long enough it might be few generation only.

Also, by introducing the "fighting for survival" card they have only given the Wulgaru a valid reason for doing what they are doing. It wasn't like they didn't know that the beings that came from their "alien spacefaring genes" weren't going to be sentient and sapient. If you sow an apple seed, you're going to get an apple. If you give the genes of a very complex being, you are going to get a very complex organism in return. So, I have no idea why Theoria and her mother suddenly decided that maybe what they were doing was wrong? They are fighting for their own survival after all.

It's like if you have a farmer who planted crops because his family was going to starve. Then when he goes to harvest them, his daughter complains because the carrots are "alive". Or as Cmdr. Simon says, it's like raising fish, only now your complaining about eating them. I'm not saying what the Wulgaru are doing is right, but they are trying to save their species, they do have their own survival to think about. And why are they so surprised that the Wulgaru think of them as "primitive"? They pretty much created the human race here, so I think they can be excused.

This is why I really think they should have kept to the whole simpler "they want to hunt us because their culture is built around hunters and the glory of the hunt" plot line idea. That way at least then the two groups can be on equal ground. But now they've tossed in that this is as much about survival for the Wulgaru as it is about the joy of the hunt, they also toss in that the Wulgaru are the creators of humanity. So you really have two groups both fighting for survival at the cost of the other. All of this just brings in unnecessary drama to a show that is really quite simple.

Fact that they "have right" do that, makes it appealing to me. It doesn't make them "evil aliens" nor "good but misunderstood" but instead of someone above morality. And bit of drama is fine too.

Lastly, I don't know if I like that the reason Kei and Asagi aren't doing well, is because they aren't "sharing their feelings" and Tamaki is getting more and more annoying as the show goes on. Theoria is your garden variety "Lacus", however she is putting up a few death flags for me, especially considering how happy she make Izuru, so I don't know about her.

It's not about sharing feelings but that both of them trying keep their emotion under control. Of course it would be contraproductive when you have machine that is driven by it. Personaly I don't have problem with Tamaki but lot with Lacus. Any Death flag is welcomed.

I didn't reply on everything, but thats cause either agree or just don't know what to say about it.

[Puu]

I enjoyed episode 10, I think. The plot explanation seriously just flew out of my brain though. It'll make sense later, I hope....

Anyway, my thoughts on the episode:

Spoiler for Episode 10 Spoilers &Thoughts:

- There goes my mom theory. At least, for now. It seriously does feel like they're aiming for the tried and true My Childhood Friend backstory. Not that I mind, really. I guess I have the benefit of not having seen Gundam Seed and Lacus that's why I'm still a-okay with Theoria. I was surprised she said it outright, though. Wouldn't giving Izuru a bone to pick be bad?

- Didn't Theoria mention something about telling the Fail Five about the Wulgaru being cruel last episode? Or was that because she'd already anticipated their new role as glorified rabbit bait this episode?

- Jiart is adorable.

- I can't help but wonder; what if they also propagated their genes not only to do whatever plot thing they were doing with the genes, but also to keep in-fighting from happening? Better to keep their superior race busy with outside beings to pick on, rather than stagnating on the inside and destroying themselves....

- Those red crystals from the previous episode are genes...?

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

So they went with proginator route for the Wulgaru.

Every 300 years they target advanced civilizations like Earth.

The literal culture of rape is a justification of forced assimilation of other races to their gene pool.

well now that you put it that way, it seems like the creator has been playing a bit too much Mass Effect.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Exactly how does one "harvest" genes when you're blowing them up in space with plasma fire?

It's like hunting a great white shark with a cruise missile. Sure it looks nice but is there going to be anything left afterwards?

simple. It's weeding out the weak and leaving only the strongest for mating. To a species like that, it probably is pointless to mate with the weak since there would be nothing to gain.

Like this I'm seeing a difference between Theoria and the other Walguru. The Walguru weed out the weak while Theoria is probably more about trying to help turn the weak into the strong to avoid senseless killing.

[Nvis]

When did their placement change from end of ep 9 and beginning of ep 10?

Facing Theoria, in ep9, Kei was standing on the far right with Izuru beside her.

In ep10, she's on the left side with Asagi and glasses freak and Tamaki is on the far right side beside Izuru????

WTF???

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Have you watched Prometheus?

Spoiler:

The human race was created by an Engineer who sacrificed himself by ingesting a black fluid that broke his DNA down when he was on Earth

That's the first thing that came to mind when it was being explained.

Don't get me started on Prometheus, I could write an entire book on what was wrong with the "science" in Prometheus.

And strangely yeah, this did remind me of that movie too when I watched this episode.

Well it's probably because their species has reached it's evolutionary peak. That kind of plot has been used before in other series.

It does make the Wulgaru more sympathetic as simply defeating them now would just result in the complete destruction of their race.

I agree that it made them more sympathetic and the plot more complex, but I just don't think that it was necessary since Majestic Prince really isn't all that complex a story and actually does better staying simple.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Actualy that's exactly what genes do. It's called mutation. You don't even need another planets to see that. Here on Earth we have race Caucasoid (europena type), mongoloid race (asiats) and negroid race (afroamericans), each of them dispose unique appearence and physical dispositions. Also while Genes itself doesn't have "will to survive" it contain record of it and so it can be readed.
Simply said GENES DO WORK THAT WAY.

Uh, excuse me? No.

What they are suggesting has nothing to do with mutation. I know exactly what mutation is, and you know what, the DNA has to be inside the organism to mutate. It is not flying through the cosmos on its own to land on some unknown planet and make a whole new being. DNA is organic acid, nothing special about it on it's own. The only time it can really do something is when it's inside a living being.
They are saying that their genes, (not other Wulgaru) and genes alone traveled through the universe and created several new species. I'm sorry, but no, I'm not buying that.

And what you are talking about with the other ethnic group has more to do with adaptation than mutation because of where those ethnic groups originated or lived for long periods of time. The bodies adapted to life in those areas. It definitely wasn't because their genes decided to leave their body and move around and change before be reabsorbed by the body again.

This show has been constantly suggesting that DNA is sentient and/or sapient and has some sort of independent drive to survive, to reproduce, and now to fly on its own through the vastness of space. However, as I have said, DNA doesn't act that way. DNA on its own is only a large amount of sugar, phosphate, and nucleic acid, that under the right conditions, with the right amount of energy and help from organelles and protection by the cell and/or organism itself can form a blueprint that the cells formed by the organism can follow.

Universe itself were supposed be 13,7 bilions years old and first humans on earth (homo erectus) appeared 1,8 milions earth ago, but due our similiarity with Vulgarus it wouldn't be suprising if seed were Homo sapiens which are even younger. Anyaway if they have live spam long enough it might be few generation only.

You forget that Earth is that latest of many other stops, so we can guess that those other civilizations were older. That means that the Wulgaru started this quite some time ago in earth years. Now maybe they do have long life spans, but they still show no signs that their DNA is degrading. Degraded DNA would be a huge problem with vast consequences (mutation, genetic disease, etc.) and should be a little more obvious in the Wulgaru that we see. Yet all of them from the nobles to the servants seem extremely fit and healthy.

Oh well, I can chock that up to "alien biology/science".

Fact that they "have right" do that, makes it appealing to me. It doesn't make them "evil aliens" nor "good but misunderstood" but instead of someone above morality. And bit of drama is fine too.

I understand that, I just thought that perhaps this is too complex territory for a show that is pretty much a mecha parody. But we'll have to see how this show handles it.

It's not about sharing feelings but that both of them trying keep their emotion under control. Of course it would be contraproductive when you have machine that is driven by it. Personaly I don't have problem with Tamaki but lot with Lacus. Any Death flag is welcomed.

It just seems like Asagi, Kei and Izuru are the characters showing the most development so far while Tamaki and Ataru seem to be getting the short end of the stick. Especially Tamaki since she is such a one-note character. She has big boobs, is not too bright, and is looking for a man. That's all I know about her. She's not that good in battle, even happening to get in everyone's way more often than not, and her talking about romance all the time is extremely annoying to me, and I'm a romanticist! "Lacus" is a boring cookie-cutter character. Why couldn't she be more out of the box like Jiart?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

simple. It's weeding out the weak and leaving only the strongest for mating. To a species like that, it probably is pointless to mate with the weak since there would be nothing to gain.

Whoa whoa whoa.

Are you saying that Jiart wants to mate with...Izuru?

Like this I'm seeing a difference between Theoria and the other Walguru. The Walguru weed out the weak while Theoria is probably more about trying to help turn the weak into the strong to avoid senseless killing.

Well she is giving them a chance to fight for what is their right to live.

I agree that it made them more sympathetic and the plot more complex, but I just don't think that it was necessary since Majestic Prince really isn't all that complex a story and actually does better staying simple.

Exactly. My question is how in the world does this story conclude?

[Puu]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Whoa whoa whoa.

Are you saying that Jiart wants to mate with...Izuru?

The fujoshis would love that, I think.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Uh, excuse me? No.

What they are suggesting has nothing to do with mutation. I know exactly what mutation is, and you know what, the DNA has to be inside the organism to mutate. It is not flying through the cosmos on its own to land on some unknown planet and make a whole new being. DNA is organic acid, nothing special about it on it's own. The only time it can really do something is when it's inside a living being.
They are saying that their genes, (not other Wulgaru) and genes alone traveled through the universe and created several new species. I'm sorry, but no, I'm not buying that.

Wait! You realy belive they just stuffed dual helix into can and sent it to the stars? Obviously it had to be whole system that would produce first generation. I don't see how would anyone who has clue about biology (and doesn't think KGMP were writen by ignorants) would even consider otherwise.

And what you are talking about with the other ethnic group has more to do with adaptation than mutation because of where those ethnic groups originated or lived for long periods of time. The bodies adapted to life in those areas. It definitely wasn't because their genes decided to leave their body and move around and change before be reabsorbed by the body again.

Adaptation and mutation is in this case pretty much same thing, I don't see why should Genes do some flying either. You just take stuff too literaly, that's all.

This show has been constantly suggesting that DNA is sentient and/or sapient and has some sort of independent drive to survive, to reproduce, and now to fly on its own through the vastness of space. However, as I have said, DNA doesn't act that way. DNA on its own is only a large amount of sugar, phosphate, and nucleic acid, that under the right conditions, with the right amount of energy and help from organelles and protection by the cell and/or organism itself can form a blueprint that the cells formed by the organism can follow.

You are right that DNA is blueprint. And very detailed one. It contain every single inborn atribute of living being. Drive to survive and reproduce is also coded here. JURIA and similiar systems just decode these information and act accordingly (Mechas itself "became" organism)

You forget that Earth is that latest of many other stops, so we can guess that those other civilizations were older. That means that the Wulgaru started this quite some time ago in earth years. Now maybe they do have long life spans, but they still show no signs that their DNA is degrading. Degraded DNA would be a huge problem with vast consequences (mutation, genetic disease, etc.) and should be a little more obvious in the Wulgaru that we see. Yet all of them from the nobles to the servants seem extremely fit and healthy.

I got impression that Vulgaru launched their DNA simultaneously (which would also provide greater chances for succes and of course more races means broader variety of genes as well. Though I wouldn't be particulary suprised if humans were in second or third batch. Also while they looks healthy it doesn't necessary means they are. At least among their top five are two that didn't looked particulary fit to me...

You know, I tend suppose anime generaly make sense, though I get often disappointd as result, but can't help in this case either...

[novalysis]

I think if we think of mutations over several million years, perhaps it might make more sense.

I wonder though - have the Wulgaru resolved their problem by this point of time, and the hunt is now something culturally embedded, rather than a means of survival? If this was the case, then opposition to the Hunt might actually make more sense. It's no longer a matter of survival, but a rather repulsive cultural tradition.

[ReddyRedWolf]

They still have problems as they require those arm braces and crystals.

I find it amusing the Wulgaru hunt seeded races closest to them..

Makes me wonder what they would make of Transhumanists like the Evolvers/Hideuaze of Suisei no Gargantia that has abandoned human form.

Genetically re-engineering human Augments for space survival is a form of Transhumanism. It is just MJP don't go for body horror.

[dmaxzero]

I wonder if people knows that the difference between us and rats at a genetic level is very small. In fact a couple more or less genes and we could be worms.

The main fact is that genes write at an instinct level the drive to reproduce to survive a generation. That is why a mother can sacrifice for an offspring. I think if they were to take that route in a more "real", whatever that means in anime, way the robots would have to be fucking each other. Fight is not the main solution to survival, not in mammals anyway.

This science fiction show is way too flawed and way too stupid. I am here for the mech action and colorful explosions which its delivering to some extent.

[DragoonKain3]

Well, that big reveal was an epic fail. The 'aliens' seeded other star systems and fight them to revalitize their own DNA? Seems a wee bit too farfetched for me, even as someone who likes sci fi.

Oh well, at least it's pretty much confirmed Teoria is Izuru's forgotten childhood friend. Heck, maybe even his desire to be a 'hero' stems from that relationship. But yeah, it's all that's keeping me in this series.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Next, the Wulgaru did this by sending their "genes" through the universe and their "genes" sowed their wild oats creating all these different peoples? Yeah, umm, I've already said this but I think I may need to reiterate: GENES/DNA DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Genes do not just fly off into space and land on planets and create totally new whole organisms. Genes may be the building blocks of an organism, but you need more than just genes and genes alone. DNA is NOT an independent entity. It does not have a "want to survive" and it does not fly through the galaxy seeding its wild oats.

We saw that those “genes” were carried by Wulgarian’s spacecrafts. So, I think they did more than just literally throwing and spreading the “genes” in the vast wilderness of various habitable planets. Theoria said “spreading the genes” but I think the process is a lot more complicated than that. IMO There’s no way she will explain the entirety of the gene-spreading methods to these kids in this kind of situation, so she simplified it . That’s how I see it at least.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

So, I have no idea why Theoria and her mother suddenly decided that maybe what they were doing was wrong? They are fighting for their own survival after all.

How do you know that it’s a sudden decision? IMO whatever Theoria’s mother was/is thinking must be after a build-up during witnessing/studying Wulgaru’s aggression toward many civilizations. They might be okay with it at first, but changing their opinions along the way. I believe she doesn’t simply want to side with the prey and curse her own people, but just want a more peaceful way of survival. There’s a big difference between growing carrots and “growing” sentient beings after all . It’s just recently that Theoria’s mother had the resolve to declare that she acknowledged the sentient-preys’ right to live.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Now, I do ask why is it that the MJP of all the military entities is handling something as big as this? They're the ones designing the weapons, creating the soldier, talking with and discussing the aliens. Did this show forget that MJP stands for Military Junior Pre-Academy? This is like having the military's most important secrets being held by the JROTC! How does that make a bit of strategic sense?

Don't take anime's English terms or abbreviation so seriously. In many occasions, they just slapped some random English words together. For all we know, MJP could be NASA's equal. And I don't have a problem believing NASA being entrusted to create the most efficient weapons and soldiers to fight enemies from space .

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Don't get me started on Prometheus, I could write an entire book on what was wrong with the "science" in Prometheus.

I agree with this. The science and characters' logic in Prometheus are eye-rolling at best.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

You forget that Earth is that latest of many other stops, so we can guess that those other civilizations were older. That means that the Wulgaru started this quite some time ago in earth years. Now maybe they do have long life spans, but they still show no signs that their DNA is degrading. Degraded DNA would be a huge problem with vast consequences (mutation, genetic disease, etc.) and should be a little more obvious in the Wulgaru that we see. Yet all of them from the nobles to the servants seem extremely fit and healthy.

Aren’t the healthy Wulgarians we’re seeing right now the result of previously “devouring genes" from other civilizations before coming to Earth? Even so, we were shown those Wulgarians taking some “drugs” in the form of the crystals (both Jiart and Theoria), so at a certain level, they’re still not “okay”.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Oh well, at least it's pretty much confirmed Teoria is Izuru's forgotten childhood friend. Heck, maybe even his desire to be a 'hero' stems from that relationship. But yeah, it's all that's keeping me in this series.

You must be happy now, considering that you're such a fan of osananajimi-pairing .

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Well, that big reveal was an epic fail. The 'aliens' seeded other star systems and fight them to revalitize their own DNA? Seems a wee bit too farfetched for me, even as someone who likes sci fi.

Ever watched Vandread and SRW OG Divine Wars?

In Vandread humanity spread throughout the cosmos as Earth was dying. Centuries later those that were left on Earth with limited lifespans sought to harvest the organs of the colonists.

In SRW OG Divine Wars the "Balmarian" M.O. weeds out the strong from the weak by attacking them. The strong are assimilated as their soldiers.

The Wulgaru weed out the strong with their hunts (in their opinion this efficient) and those that survive are assimilated to their gene pool. Either as DNA samples or well... Forced breeding.