(L+CR) Fate/Grand Order: Zettai Majū Sensen Babylonia Anime General Discussion

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what Gilgamesh was all about. Did he die as a person, then resummon himself as a Servant?

Yes, Archer Gil is the younger form of Gil before he went through a lot of his character development which is why he is such a jerk.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Forgot to mention it, but I was surprised to see Merlin pull out Excalibur. How much of its powers can he actually use?

People seem to forget that in most legends Merlin was the one that taught Arthur the sword.

Originally Posted by Kanon

The pace was way too fast once again. I haven't played the game but there were some scenes I'm sure were supposed to be better, like Gilgamesh's return as Archer. Then again, this may also have to do with the writing. With all the "dead" character coming back those past few episodes, Gilgamesh coming back as well was hardly surprising. And of course, no actual explanation just like with Ana.

Ritsuka being the only one who could deliver a fatal blow (which apparently wasn't fatal) felt really forced as well. What was the weapon Gil gave him anyway?

Gil returning was pretty much just as fast in the game. This episode is just the last 3 pips(fights) in chapter 21 (fighting the mass of super tough flying Lamu, and 2 battles with Tiamat .Gil showing up on the last fight)..

Ritsuka killing the Beast was something the anime added in but it does make sense in context as the Beasts are evils that humans must defeat. And it is even more important as they are not created by malice but the opposite the Beasts love humanity but their love becomes twisted and it ends up harming it. Tiamat is the Beast of regression she can not let her children go.

When Gil pulled Ea, I was expecting him to pull off an attack that would put Ishtar and Quetzalcoalt's noble phantasms to shame, but nope, just a giant beam. Artoria's Excaliblasts look more impressive than that.

Ea's effect has always been the massive sword beam shown. The scale of the beam might not have registered. Ritsuka is not even a thousandth of the size of Tiamat, the width of the beam was almost twice her size.

[Random14]

I was never quite sure if that was Gil as a Servant or just his spirit with his full power unleashed. They are in the Underworld.

Huh, so Ritsuka has to run in and do it himself, it was just a boss battle in the game. And Tiamat can actually talk. Well, she was never mindless but I think this is the first time we saw her communicate with a modern human. Still, nice to see Ritsuka's kind nature is to convince Tiamat to kind of stand down. And then finally we see Gil and Ea, that was cool. With the scale, its a bit hard to catch just how huge that beam was, given Tiamat was like the size of a lake already.

I just wish they hadn't spent so long on everyone getting beaten up by the lahmu. I know it was to set up Gilgamesh's entrance but still. And I wish the First Hassan had done a bit more cool stuff. Ereshkigal's death was really sad, especially with so much else going on she can't see Ritsuka one more time.

Just one more episode left. It wasn't a perfect series, and I'm a bit annoyed they skipped over some things yet kept some other things (and then the ending was a bit rushed but some of that is due to the original game story too) but overall this series turned out pretty good, better than I had feared.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Ritsuka being the only one who could deliver a fatal blow (which apparently wasn't fatal) felt really forced as well. What was the weapon Gil gave him anyway?

Seems Proto-Rule Breaker, and their purpose was like turn-off Nega-Genesis probably.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what Gilgamesh was all about. Did he die as a person, then resummon himself as a Servant?

Yes, that seems the general consensus.

[Frontier]

Joji Nakata does a stellar job voicing a God of Death .

I thought we were so done with the Lahmu, but not only are they back but they get upgraded too .

Merlin fighting with a sword! And Excalibur no less! He even finally mentions Artoria .

I knew Gilgamesh wasn't out of the fight, but I didn't expect him to summon himself back as his Archer form, and he made an entrance in the only way that version of Gil could...by firing a bunch of weapons at the bad guys .

Ereshkigal put too much of herself into this plan, at the expense of her life. At least she got to meet Ritsuka and was held tenderly by her dark-haired sister in the end, having been able to find some beauty and happiness in the Underworld that she never had before. Hopefully one day, in another time, they'll be able to summon her again so she and Ritsuka can reunite .

Arthurian-lore represent! It was pretty cool watching Mash and Merlin unleash their Noble Phantasms together .

Ritsuka getting his moment by being the only one who could go in there and debilitate Tiamat. Nice, Humanity's Last Master .

I was expecting we'd get to meet the "real" Tiamat, or at least Tiamat's sentient self, at some point. In the end, Tiamat was a mother that loved her children and was sad that they were leaving her behind that her love turned into what it is now. At least she can rest again, and Ritsuka gave her the most respectful sendoff he could .

I can't think of a more spectacular finish then Gilgamesh finally bringing out Ea and unleashing Enuma Elish .

Ritsuka and Mash being the only ones left after everything felt fitting...especially with them holding hands .

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by kagato3

Ea's effect has always been the massive sword beam shown. The scale of the beam might not have registered. Ritsuka is not even a thousandth of the size of Tiamat, the width of the beam was almost twice her size.

She didn't seem that much bigger than Gilles' Cthulhu to me, so yeah, it didn't really register how huge the beam was.

Originally Posted by Random14

I was never quite sure if that was Gil as a Servant or just his spirit with his full power unleashed. They are in the Underworld.

When he made his entrance, he announced himself as "Servant Archer", and I think Romani confirmed he was a servant right after.

[Thess]

They really ruined the finale, huh? From the beginning, I suspected the series was dead on arrival when the director gave a statement they tried to make the useless cameraman a "real protagonist." Nobody wants to see the useless cameraman as a protagonist, just shoved him on the side as they are in game and let the real characters carry the story as they always did. FGO was never Ritsuka's story. Fortunately, the Camelot staff stated the protagonist in their movies is Sir Bedivere and have the sense to credit him first, as should be.

Since I'm feeling generous, I'll give Babylonia a 4.5/10 as an adaptation for the OST, and some good episodes. Possibly down there as the worst Fate work adaptation next to Last Encore for me.

[Frontier]

I dunno, I'm just coming at it from the first OVA so I've always seen Ritsuka as a main character, so it didn't really bother me much .

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I dunno, I'm just coming at it from the first OVA so I've always seen Ritsuka as a main character, so it didn't really bother me much .

Ritsuka is not a character, it's just an empty slot to watch the story unfold (there's even a meta event, where "Insert your Name Here" is made the cameraman just to put their symbolic role as they filmed a movie). Has no backstory or actual personality with precious little dialogue too. First Order was ok because he did nothing of value, was just 'there' to give some cheerleading scenes to Mash as should be. In Babylonia anime, they had him steal scenes, lines, and actions of the actual characters (even background characters!) to try to make him what he's not. Fans voted for Babylonia because they wanted to see those characters do their scenes. Not the accessory Master shove down your throat and the fan favorite scenes just changed (for the record, Mash, not "Ritsuka", is the actual protagonist of the story, Ritsuka has no personality on its own, it's just an empty echo chamber for Mash). Good thing they scored this episode as the second lowest of the show in nicovideo, hopefully, this would teach a lesson in case the studio in charge of Camelot decide to try to make Ritsuka more than he should be.

This, which was one of the most anticipated scenes, was missing. That and many more.

[Kanon]

Ritsuka was an ok protagonist until now, but I really don't think giving him such a big role to play in Tiamat's defeat was necessary. What bothered me most is that a couple minutes after they said he was the only one who could enter the field and finish things, Grand Assassin casually entered as well and revealed he was immune to its effect. Wouldn't he have been far more suited to the job? I don't get what they were thinking here.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Ritsuka was an ok protagonist until now, but I really don't think giving him such a big role to play in Tiamat's defeat was necessary. What bothered me most is that a couple minutes after they said he was the only one who could enter the field and finish things, Grand Assassin casually entered as well and revealed he was immune to its effect. Wouldn't he have been far more suited to the job? I don't get what they were thinking here.

You think he's ok because you were unaware he's been stealing things from the beginning. Last episode was just the last straw, but this 'masterful' writing has been obnoxiously common. Even that "brick" speech and action he gives early on, it's stolen from someone else and meant to show the strong will of Uruk soldiers rather than let some random teenager who barely know them "show them the way." They tried very hard to try to pretend Ritsuka matters as anything but an accessory for Mash's growth (and Roman's too, to a lesser extend). "Ritsuka" is only in game because is necessary as a waifu/husbando collection pack as the camera the player self inserts, but Mash is the actual main character who moves the story and whose choices and growth are pivotal.

I mean, it's not impossible to make Ritsuka a character, Shimousa manga is so far the only adaptation that has successfully done this well enough; without making her (they chose female for this manga) steal Musashi's or other allies scenes and lines. Rather the mangaka comes up with stuff to fill the gaps unique to Ritsuka. That was beyond the skill of the anime staff it seems.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Thess

Ritsuka is not a character, it's just an empty slot to watch the story unfold (there's even a meta event, where "Insert your Name Here" is made the cameraman just to put their symbolic role as they filmed a movie). Has no backstory or actual personality with precious little dialogue too. First Order was ok because he did nothing of value, was just 'there' to give some cheerleading scenes to Mash as should be. In Babylonia anime, they had him steal scenes, lines, and actions of the actual characters (even background characters!) to try to make him what he's not. Fans voted for Babylonia because they wanted to see those characters do their scenes. Not the accessory Master shove down your throat and the fan favorite scenes just changed (for the record, Mash, not "Ritsuka", is the actual protagonist of the story, Ritsuka has no personality on its own, it's just an empty echo chamber for Mash). Good thing they scored this episode as the second lowest of the show in nicovideo, hopefully, this would teach a lesson in case the studio in charge of Camelot decide to try to make Ritsuka more than he should be.

This, which was one of the most anticipated scenes, was missing. That and many more.

I'm coming at it from an anime-only perspective, so as far as I am aware, in the context of the anime, Ritsuka is his own character who has been on this journey with each Singularity along with Mash and grown along the way to get to where he is now. And he's grown on me a lot over the course of this series, so I don't really have a problem with how he was used.

I have no idea how they are going to adapt that specific Singularity, again anime-only here, but I imagine they will probably still give Ritsuka a sizeable role and not relegate him to "cameraman" status.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Ritsuka was an ok protagonist until now, but I really don't think giving him such a big role to play in Tiamat's defeat was necessary. What bothered me most is that a couple minutes after they said he was the only one who could enter the field and finish things, Grand Assassin casually entered as well and revealed he was immune to its effect. Wouldn't he have been far more suited to the job? I don't get what they were thinking here.

Grand Assassin looked like he was on his last legs to me. Aiding Ritsuka by taking on the Lahmu took what little power he had left.

I mean, Gilgamesh is the one who finished her off after everyone hit her with a Noble Phantasm, I'm not sure Ritsuka stole the show that much.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I'm coming at it from an anime-only perspective, so as far as I am aware, in the context of the anime, Ritsuka is his own character who has been on this journey with each Singularity along with Mash and grown along the way to get to where he is now. And he's grown on me a lot over the course of this series, so I don't really have a problem with how he was used.

Tell me Ritsuka's backstory. Do you know his parents' names? Does he have siblings? Anything about their life that isn't "a Master candidate sent to Chaldea"? If you can't answer that, then this 'main character' isn't really a character. It's not because there's a mysterious background, it's because it's a big nothing because a non character doesn't need a backstory.

And the anime was done for the players. It was done based on our votes. I'm criticizing it as the worst Fate adaptation to date, next to Last Encore. Since you have no idea about the source material, there's no much you can say or not about its worth as adaptation, right?

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Thess

Tell me Ritsuka's backstory. Do you know his parents' names? Does he have siblings? Anything about their life that isn't "a Master candidate sent to Chaldea"? If you can't answer that, then this 'main character' isn't really a character.

I mean, I don't really know those aspects of anyone else in the main Chaldea cast, so I'm not really going to hold that against Ritsuka .

And the anime was done for the players. It was done based on our votes.

And I'm just watching as a fan of the franchise from watching the anime's, so on that front I really enjoyed this series .

Although I figured the staff were probably going for both the game audience and for new audiences. At least that's my take on it.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Thess

I mean, it's not impossible to make Ritsuka a character, Shimousa manga is so far the only adaptation that has successfully done this well enough; without making her (they chose female for this manga) steal Musashi's or other allies scenes and lines. Rather the mangaka comes up with stuff to fill the gaps unique to Ritsuka. That was beyond the skill of the anime staff it seems.

^

This

I'll suggest everyone who have not done it to read the Shimosa manga after the anime is done.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I mean, I don't really know those aspects of anyone else in the main Chaldea cast, so I'm not really going to hold that against Ritsuka .

Huh? Episode 0 shows Mash's backstory, part of Roman's? The scene Holmes says Roman participated in Fuyuki Grail War with Marisbury Animusphere in episode 11 before he became a doctor in Chaldea or studied medicine at all? Hell, Marisbury Animusphere who appears for 5 minutes has more characterization and backstory than Ritsuka. As for Da Vinci, you can google it, it's someone who doesn't need an explained backstory (but still has her backstory addressed in her interludes). Ritsuka has no need for a backstory because he's not a real character. It's not as if he can rely on wiki as Da Vinci, or because he's kept a mystery as Romani first (then is revealed in the finale), but rather nobody has thought a backstory for Ristuka because is meant to be a blank.

Originally Posted by Frontier

Although I figured the staff were probably going for both the game audience and for new audiences. At least that's my take on it.

You know this episode was rated the lowest next to episode 11 in the show? Even if the Japanese watchers are polite, their disappointment is very palpable. And the anime only viewers are going to be a minority. If they really cared about them, they would have adapted Orleans and not Babylonia.

Originally Posted by Sheba

^

This

I'll suggest everyone who have not done it to read the Shimosa manga after the anime is done.

They'll probably be confused without the finale, but Shimousa mangaka is excellent. And even gives Ritsuka a backstory of sorts, baby steps.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Thess

Huh? Episode 0 shows Mash's backstory, part of Roman's? The scene Holmes says Roman participated in Fuyuki Grail War with Marisbury Animusphere in episode 11? Hell, Marisbury Animusphere who appears for 5 minutes has more characterization and backstory than Ritsuka. Ritsuka has no need for a backstory because he's not a real character. As for Da Vinci, you can google it, it's someone who doesn't need a backstory (but still has her backstory addressed in her interludes).

In the context of the anime, he's a real character. And I don't really have a problem with that, and some bits of backstory doesn't make Mash and Roman more "real" characters to me compared to their actual actions and characterizations in what we see of them in the anime.

You know this episode was rated the lowest next to episode 11 in the show? Even if the Japanese watchers are polite, their disappointment is very palpable. And the anime only viewers are going to be a minority. If they really cared about them, they would have adapted Orleans and not Babylonia.

I'd rate it fairly high, and I saw positive reception on other forums. I'm sorry it wasn't to the enjoyment of Japanese players who played the game.

(I don't know about anime only viewers being in the minority, but I guess the only people who would check this out are people who are aware of the game or are fans of the Fate franchise. The latter is why I watched it, and I jumped from Episode 0 to one of their last adventures).

[Thess]

Without backstory, he can't be a real character. That's good writing 101. It's not up to debate about your personal taste. You are talking about how much he "grew" in the journey, but without a backstory, it makes him white canvas that doesn't have a direction or a foundation to grow from. I'm not talking about showing his backstory (that's different), I'm saying Ritsuka has no backstory at all.

Originally Posted by Frontier

(I don't know about anime only viewers being in the minority, but I guess the only people who would check this out are people who are aware of the game or are fans of the Fate franchise. The latter is why I watched it, and I jumped from Episode 0 to one of their last adventures).

FGO has millions of players. It's the most massive platform of Fate franchise by TM own admission. The anime has thousands at best.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Frontier

(I don't know about anime only viewers being in the minority, but I guess the only people who would check this out are people who are aware of the game or are fans of the Fate franchise. The latter is why I watched it, and I jumped from Episode 0 to one of their last adventures).

You'll have to extremely misinformed if you believe the FGO player base is not the biggest Type-Moon fan base currently, as well as Type-Moon's biggest income base.
If you play the slightest attention to FGO gacha earning chart and you'll understand that FGO player has every single right to brag compare to anime only fans who didn't spend a penny.

This anime came out because FGO dumped actual money into the gacha, this anime came out because FGO player actually submitted their vote.
This anime came out because of the FGO players end of the story.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Thess

Without backstory, he can't be a real character. That's good writing 101. It's not up to debate about your personal taste. You are talking about how much he "grew" in the journey, but without a backstory, it makes him white canvas that doesn't have a direction or a foundation to grow from. I'm not talking about showing his backstory (that's different), I'm saying Ritsuka has no backstory at all.

I think the lack of a defined background kind of adds to this unassuming individual ending up becoming Humanity's Last Master through sheer chance and from meeting Mash. We don't really know much about him, he might have this super mundane background, but he ends up becoming a vital part in this battle to save the world.

I'm not arguing that a backstory isn't an important aspect of a character but jumping immediately into this Singularity it didn't prevent me from buying into his character, what he has gone through, or who he is now even though I didn't get to see much of it aside from the brief flashes we were shown of past Singularities. I still got a clear sense of a character from what we are shown in the anime even if he's meant to be a cipher in the game.

FGO has millions of players. It's the most massive platform of Fate franchise by TM own admission. The anime has thousands at best.

You don't have to sell me on how popular the game is .

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Thess

Fortunately, the Camelot staff stated the protagonist in their movies is Sir Bedivere and have the sense to credit him first, as should be.

Camelot is a movie.....Very hard (ok, being generous I'll admit) for a movie with more intensive work to bomb as bad a TV title