High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Well we could say that nothing proved Sairaorg was above average accept that he defeated his younger brother who doesn't even have combat experience, defeated some no-named high-class devils, and defeated Zephrydor who was the weakest of the 6 rookie kings competing in the Young Devils Tournament. Not exceptional at all.

Anyone that's able to hold their own against Issei in Balance Breaker is pretty strong. Those that are able to match and come equal to him in that form are something else. Issei in Balance Breaker is a pretty good measuring point for judging a certain character's strength. Even if it's just a sparring match, being able to go up against Issei in BxB is extraordinary in itself.

Of course Sairaorg is average, unlike Raiser he does not have any kind of amazing feats to back up hes power. Beating the shit out of Issei (BxB) in volume 9 without even using touki, cleaning the floor with Xenovia, Kiba, and Rose in Volume 10. These things do not prove that he is not average, Riser could actually do the same things.

Of course, fighting Issei (BxB) and losing without being able to do anything is extraordinary, and that's why Saji in Volume 5 was already at the level of a high-class devil right?

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Well we could say that nothing proved Sairaorg was above average accept that he defeated his younger brother who doesn't even have combat experience, defeated some no-named high-class devils, and defeated Zephrydor who was the weakest of the 6 rookie kings competing in the Young Devils Tournament. Not exceptional at all.

Anyone that's able to hold their own against Issei in Balance Breaker is pretty strong. Those that are able to match and come equal to him in that form are something else. Issei in Balance Breaker is a pretty good measuring point for judging a certain character's strength. Even if it's just a sparring match, being able to go up against Issei in BxB is extraordinary in itself.

The difference between Riser and Sairaorg was Sairaorg was stated to be the strongest devil in their generation. Volume 2 Riser waa equal to a incomplete BxB Issei but in volume 10, Sairaorg was equal to a complete and stronger BxB Issei. Riser was noted for his talent, not because his strength. Rias went over how people in the Pheonix clan rose through the rating games because of their immortality.

[Parry999]

Rias does train even before she met Azazel it's why the four rookie kings where special and Rias was noted multiple times to have way above average demonic power. Just pointing this out because I am literally seeing people calling her an average high class devil.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

The difference between Riser and Sairaorg was Sairaorg was stated to be the strongest devil in their generation. Volume 2 Riser waa equal to a incomplete BxB Issei but in volume 10, Sairaorg was equal to a complete and stronger BxB Issei. Riser was noted for his talent, not because his strength. Rias went over how people in the Pheonix clan rose through the rating games because of their immortality.

Did you read unresurrected Phenex? Complete BxB Issei fight Riser for over
10 minutes and only won when both where exhausted and he tricked him. Just immortality a moot point it's like saying Kiba weak if he couldn't beat Sieg without his sword.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Im desperate man, how do you think I can counter such amazing arguments?

"man who beat Rias the pinnacle of high class and fight BxB Issei who stomped Kuroka and Diodora "average" wut?"

"Man beat Rias and started training with Sairaorg. Man is in no way an average high class devil stop"

"That raiser is more powerful than the previous version that faced Issei and the same says that its flames if they hit them will not be safe (bxb) and the cxc is stronger than the volume 10 therefore raiser would be in the average of Ultimate demon or maybe a little more."

Sorry, I was wrong. Riser defeated a teenager girl (the pinnacle of high class) that never trained herself, trained with Sairaorg to be able to fight the basic melee, and was defeated by Issei a few times. He is definitely not average, very few high-class devils could match such feats. About Raiser being as strong as Issei BxB, do I need to say anything else? If you think I'm being "cornered" here... then alright, maybe.

You've failed to actually counter any of them, so trying to portray them as silly just makes you look worse.

Riser did better against BxB than Kuroka (who was so dangerous the devils flat out gave up catching her) and Diodora (who had Ophis' snake). Rias and Sairong are both well above the average high-class devil due to the PoD and absurd physical strength respectively. And Issei never once actually beat him with BxB, he had to use holy water and CxC in his two fights.

Originally Posted by Palmito

"Riser isn't an "average" high class devil. There was never once any indication that he was representative of the majority, and volume 2 constantly plays up how strong he is"

Wow, Volume 2 really shows how strong he is. He wins some RG against no-name characters and then got trashed the rest of the series. No chance that this guy is average. You are right.

Those no name characters were average high-class devils, dude. And again Issei never actually beats him with BxB.

Your inability to actually counter anything and attempts to make up for it with sarcasm are just digging you deeper.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

You've failed to actually counter any of them, so trying to portray them as silly just makes you look worse.

Riser did better against BxB than Kuroka (who was so dangerous the devils flat out gave up catching her) and Diodora (who had Ophis' snake). Rias and Sairong are both well above the average high-class devil due to the PoD and absurd physical strength respectively. And Issei never once actually beat him with BxB, he had to use holy water and CxC in his two fights.



Those no name characters were average high-class devils, dude. And again Issei never actually beats him with BxB.

Your inability to actually counter anything and attempts to make up for it with sarcasm are just digging you deeper.

sigh.

I do not believe I'm going to do this, but I'll try to explain the obvious to you. Do you know why Riser was better against Issei's BxB than Kuroka and Diodora? Because his regeneration. His regeneration keeps him in the fight for a longer period of time, but that does not mean he's as strong as his enemy. It is like Sirzechs against the 666 core. Sirzechs were clearly dominating 666, but he could not defeat it because of the regeneration. This does not make the 666 core being as strong as Sirzechs. Just make him annoying to beat. I already explained in a previous post about why he is not on the same level as Issei. Are you trying to ignore what I said? Or is just too difficult to understand?

"Those no name characters were average high-class devils, dude." - And that's why Riser beat them. In a fight against someone of his level he has the advantage because while the enemy gets hurt Raiser body keeps regenerating.

"Issei never actually beats him with BxB." - sigh. I already explained about this in a previous post go back and read it.

"Your inability to actually counter anything and attempts to make up for it with sarcasm are just digging you deeper."

No, it's not. This is only showing the level of arguments that you guys are using. Look at this:

"Rias and Sairong are both well above the average high-class devil due to the PoD and absurd physical strength respectively."

What kind of argument is that? How does that refute what I said? When Riser beat Rias she did not have any training with her powers. What does Sairaorg being strong changes the fact that Riser went to him and trained the basic hand to hand combat?

"Riser did better against BxB than Kuroka (who was so dangerous the devils flat out gave up catching her)"

Kuroka is said to be at the level of an ultimate class devil. Because Raiser did better against Issei BxB than she did, do you think he's stronger than her? An Ultimate-class devil? Look what you're saying.

If you do not want me to use sarcasm with you, then use serious arguments. If you use nonsensical arguments, and refuse to admit that you are wrong, the least you can expect is sarcasm.

[Parry999]

@Palmito It was already proven with the multiple quotes posted that Issei was feeling pain from Risers blows and if you read the Unresurrected Phenex you know Riser has stamina almost equal to Issei's before his training. Diodora got absolutely destroyed couldn't even do jack. Your argument just regeneration doesn't even make sense anyway it's like saying Kibas weaker then Koneko because without his swords she beat him. Koneko beat Kuroka do you think Koneko has the feats to beat Riser?

Rias was already training her servants and her self in volume 2 dude. She has also has higher Demonic Power then normal noted by both Azazel and Kokabiel.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Parry999

@Palmito It was already proven with the multiple quotes posted that Issei was feeling pain from Risers blows and if you read the Unresurrected Phenex you know Riser has stamina almost equal to Issei's before his training. Diodora got absolutely destroyed couldn't even do jack. Your argument just regeneration doesn't even make sense anyway it's like saying Kibas weaker then Koneko because without his swords she beat him. Koneko beat Kuroka do you think Koneko has the feats to beat Riser?

Rias was already training her servants and her self in volume 2 dude. She has also has higher Demonic Power then normal noted by both Azazel and Kokabiel.

Pride is something incredible do not you think?

1- The quotes dont prove that Issei was struggling against Riser flames, this is your head cannon.

2- Both were tired. Because Raiser had stamina similar to Issei, does that make him as strong as Issei? How does that make sense?

3- "Diodora got absolutely destroyed couldn't even do jack." - Alright?

4- "Your argument just regeneration doesn't even make sense anyway it's like saying Kibas weaker then Koneko because without his swords she beat him." - I will not say anything about this. This probably made sense to you.

5- "Koneko beat Kuroka do you think Koneko has the feats to beat Riser?" - ...Yes?

6- Rias did a basic training for a week. Thats it. She has higher Demonic Power than normal, but that doesnt mean that she is really strong. Everyone needs training to improve. In Volume 5 it is shown after the training how much the control of her powers have improved.

"The bullets were only about the size of a softball, but I could feel magic of high purity in each shot. It seemed that the results of Buchou’s training were also coming out."

"Smiling fearlessly, Buchou piled compression upon compression of her power of destruction and made a countless number of magic bullets in the air. Those without enough power would vanish from just one of those shots. To have condensed that many of them, it seemed that Buchou had built up her magic power fairly well in her training."

Rias was not able to do this with her demonic power before the training of volume 5, so do not try to act as if in volume 2 she was very powerful because she was not.

Edit: You should just try to stop. Its obvious that your arguments will not convince me that you're right. At this rate, this discussion will not end.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Pride is something incredible do not you think?

1- The quotes dont prove that Issei was struggling against Riser flames, this is your head cannon.

2- Both were tired. Because Raiser had stamina similar to Issei, does that make him as strong as Issei? How does that make sense?

3- "Diodora got absolutely destroyed couldn't even do jack." - Alright?

4- "Your argument just regeneration doesn't even make sense anyway it's like saying Kibas weaker then Koneko because without his swords she beat him." - I will not say anything about this. This probably made sense to you.

5- "Koneko beat Kuroka do you think Koneko has the feats to beat Riser?" - ...Yes?

6- Rias did a basic training for a week. Thats it. She has higher Demonic Power than normal, but that doesnt mean that she is really strong. Everyone needs training to improve. In Volume 5 it is shown after the training how much the control of her powers have improved.

"The bullets were only about the size of a softball, but I could feel magic of high purity in each shot. It seemed that the results of Buchou’s training were also coming out."

"Smiling fearlessly, Buchou piled compression upon compression of her power of destruction and made a countless number of magic bullets in the air. Those without enough power would vanish from just one of those shots. To have condensed that many of them, it seemed that Buchou had built up her magic power fairly well in her training."

Rias was not able to do this with her demonic power before the training of volume 5, so do not try to act as if in volume 2 she was very powerful because she was not.

Edit: You should just try to stop. Its obvious that your arguments will not convince me that you're right. At this rate, this discussion will not end.

Is able to keep up with Issei in a fight. Both can survive each others blows and both have equal stamina. Your denial of post Volume 6 BxB Issei and Riser not being in range of each other is your head canon.

Now your down playing Rias her whole power type power of destruction and getting facts on training wrong. It's a fact of the story dude that only the devils from Rias generation and Riser after coming out of his depression train. Everyone else a is naturally strong devil or they cheat.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Is able to keep up with Issei in a fight. Both can survive each others blows and both have equal stamina. Your denial of post Volume 6 BxB Issei and Riser not being in range of each other is your head canon.

Now your down playing Rias her whole power type power of destruction and getting facts on training wrong. It's a fact of the story dude that only the devils from Rias generation and Riser after coming out of his depression train. Everyone else is naturally strong devil or they cheat.

Well, you're starting to talk nonsense. I've already shown my arguments of why I think Raiser is not on the same level as Issei and no one including you was able to refute them using valid arguments that make sense. Of course pride will not let anyone here admit that you're wrong and give up, so I will stop this useless debate here, if you want to continue, feel free, I will not waste my time anymore. Peace.

[Parry999]

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Pot calling the kettle black.

@Palmito has a point. Rias wasn't doing training like she did in volume 5. She was like most pure blood high class devils at the time, which was rely on their natural talent. It was only after volume 5 that Rias herself started to train seriously with the threat of the Khaos Brigade and her upcoming game with Sona. And in volume 13, she went to Sirzech for help to use POD better. Before that, there was nothing shown Rias was particularly powerful. She just has above average demonic power. The Rookies 4 were mainly noted not because they train but because of their peerage that showed great potential and was out of the norm. Rias and Sairaorg for examples had Longinus, Sona had a dragon king, Seekvaira also had a dragon.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

@Palmito has a point. Rias wasn't doing training like she did in volume 5. She was like most pure blood high class devils at the time, which was rely on their natural talent. It was only after volume 5 that Rias herself started to train seriously with the threat of the Khaos Brigade and her upcoming game with Sona. And in volume 13, she went to Sirzech for help to use POD better. Before that, there was nothing shown Rias was particularly powerful. She just has above average demonic power. The Rookies 4 were mainly noted not because they train but because of their peerage that showed great potential and was out of the norm. Rias and Sairaorg for examples had Longinus, Sona had a dragon king, Seekvaira also had a dragon.

“Fuhahaha! Good! That flow of demonic power! The demonic-power I can feel right now is that of an ultimate-class devil. A little bit more then you would reach that of a Maou, Rias Gremory! Looks like you have a talent equal to that of your brother’s!”

Kokabiel believes she has talent to one day reach base Sirzechs level which is not normal.

“You six are all devils of the next generation that have pedigree and true ability that no objection can be raised against. That’s why, I want you to compete together before your debuts and increase your power in this way.”

Sirzechs-sama said this from his seat on the topmost level.

Spoiler:

Buchou was the first one that Sensei called out to.

“From the beginning, you have been a high-spec devil with everything, including talent, physical ability and magic power. Even if you live normally as you currently are, those traits will rise and you’ll become a candidate for being a highest-grade devil when you become an adult. However, your wish is to become stronger than you would in that future, right?”

Buchou nodded strongly at Sensei’s question.

“Yes. I don’t want to lose ever again.”

It was just as Buchou said! We didn’t want to lose in the games again! Especially in a match that isn’t formal!

“Then, follow the training recorded on this sheet exactly, even all the way up to the battle day.”

After looking at the piece of paper that sensei handed to her, Buchou tilted her head in puzzlement.

“…But, this training doesn’t seem all that special, though?”

“That’s right. It’s a basic training method. That’s just fine for you. You’ve already collected everything. That’s why your power can only be raised by basic practice. The problem is the quality of the [King]. Over time, the [King] seeks brains more than strength. You know that even if they’re not good at magic, devils can climb to the top with a good head and cleverness, right? Learn all you can about the Rating Games until the deadline. Drive everything, from game documented images to documented data, into your head. What a [King] needs are the thought, quick-wittiness and judgment to defeat any kind of situation. It’s your job to make sure that your group’s servant devils can display their power to the fullest. However, also remember that, until the actual game, you won’t be able to know what will happen. It’s the same as a battlefield.”

She started training her mind and technique but from natural talent alone she was always going to be an ultimate-class devil one day. She was never an average high-class devil. She's just out classed by others in her generation that makes her seem weak.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Kokabiel believes she has talent to one day reach base Sirzechs level which is not normal.

Spoiler:

Buchou was the first one that Sensei called out to.

“From the beginning, you have been a high-spec devil with everything, including talent, physical ability and magic power. Even if you live normally as you currently are, those traits will rise and you’ll become a candidate for being a highest-grade devil when you become an adult. However, your wish is to become stronger than you would in that future, right?”

Buchou nodded strongly at Sensei’s question.

“Yes. I don’t want to lose ever again.”

It was just as Buchou said! We didn’t want to lose in the games again! Especially in a match that isn’t formal!

“Then, follow the training recorded on this sheet exactly, even all the way up to the battle day.”

After looking at the piece of paper that sensei handed to her, Buchou tilted her head in puzzlement.

“…But, this training doesn’t seem all that special, though?”

“That’s right. It’s a basic training method. That’s just fine for you. You’ve already collected everything. That’s why your power can only be raised by basic practice. The problem is the quality of the [King]. Over time, the [King] seeks brains more than strength. You know that even if they’re not good at magic, devils can climb to the top with a good head and cleverness, right? Learn all you can about the Rating Games until the deadline. Drive everything, from game documented images to documented data, into your head. What a [King] needs are the thought, quick-wittiness and judgment to defeat any kind of situation. It’s your job to make sure that your group’s servant devils can display their power to the fullest. However, also remember that, until the actual game, you won’t be able to know what will happen. It’s the same as a battlefield.”

She started training her mind and technique but from natural talent alone she was always going to be an ultimate-class devil one day. She was never an average high-class devil. She's just out classed by others in her generation that makes her seem weak.

Note that Kokabiel said that after Rias had a power up from multiple boost from Issei. Rias has talent and potential but not at the level of her brother. EX zero is proof of this. Hell even Millicas was shown to have more talent in using POD than Rias.

Azazel was regarding her about her talent and I already went over that. Rias was like most pure blood high class devils as they mostly relied on their talent. Sairaorg was the only one at the time who trained because of the hardships he went through during his childhood. It wasn't until volume 5 that Rias started to do real training. The results of that training was shown in her fight against Sona. Yes, Rias also needed mental training but that kind of thing takes more time and as we saw Sona outsmarted her at every turn.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Note that Kokabiel said that after Rias had a power up from multiple boost from Issei. Rias has talent and potential but not at the level of her brother. EX zero is proof of this. Hell even Millicas was shown to have more talent in using POD than Rias.

Azazel was regarding her about her talent and I already went over that. Rias was like most pure blood high class devils as they mostly relied on their talent. Sairaorg was the only one at the time who trained because of the hardships he went through during his childhood. It wasn't until volume 5 that Rias started to do real training. The results of that training was shown in her fight against Sona. Yes, Rias also needed mental training but that kind of thing takes more time and as we saw Sona outsmarted her at every turn.

I never said Rias had talent on par with Sirzechs or Millicas. The key world is "base" form that is Maou class not super devil level. She wasn't training as hard before Azazel came clearly, but she was already doing some with her servants. An average high class devil can never become maou class through just sheer aging.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by Parry999

I never said Rias had talent on par with Sirzechs or Millicas. The key world is "base" form that is Maou class not super devil level. She wasn't training as hard before Azazel came clearly, but she was already doing some with her servants. An average high class devil can never become maou class through just sheer aging.

Rias talent alone would put her at Ultimate devil class. Sirzech base is Maou class so Rias has to train hard to reach Maou class which means her talent isn't on Sirzech level. In DxD zero, Sirzech was born a monster. Rias was doing training with her servants in volume 5.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Rias talent alone would put her at Ultimate devil class. Sirzech base is Maou class so Rias has to train hard to reach Maou class which means her talent isn't on Sirzech level. In DxD zero, Sirzech was born a monster. Rias was doing training with her servants in volume 5.

Sirzechs was in his 40s to early 50s by the time he finally killed a Maou descendant though. He probably could have been able to kill Baelzebub son before but we don't see it. Anyway it seems you agree she's not an "average teenage devil" since only a few devils in a generation can become ultimate-class in power by just aging.

[Lucidrago]

Well Rias is above average or else she wouldn't have the moniker of ' Crimson-haired Ruin Princess.

She was clearly an exceptional high-class devil since the beginning of the series.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Well Rias is above average or else she wouldn't have the moniker of ' Crimson-haired Ruin Princess.

She was clearly an exceptional high-class devil since the beginning of the series.

Rias got the nickname based off her mother. Sairaorg is the strongest young devil and he didn't get a nickname. Riser didn't get a nickname despite how talented he was praised.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Rias got the nickname based off her mother. Sairaorg is the strongest young devil and he didn't get a nickname. Riser didn't get a nickname despite how talented he was praised.

Strongest youth, Great King and later revealed Lion King, he actually has a lot. Riser isn't related to a Maou or the great king though he has the title grilled-chicken

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Strongest youth, Great King and later revealed Lion King, he actually has a lot. Riser isn't related to a Maou or the great king though he has the title grilled-chicken

Great King is his family's name. Sairaorg eventually got the nickname Lion King but we're talking about from the start since Rias had her nickname from the start.