2009-02-27, 20:36 | Link #5461 |
Σ(。д°(o--(ಠ益ಠ )
Author
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hotsprings Resort
Age: 38
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A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields. Examples include microwave cookers and MRI scanners.
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2009-02-28, 00:48 | Link #5462 | ||||||
~ Your Smile ~
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 346Pro
Age: 38
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...main problem is that I forgot that she was meant to be a surprise character though, hence why no profile. Egads. D= And yes, Rule Breaker takes a bit longer to dispell due to the need to analyse the attack on strike. Imagine Breaker just whacks things out on touch. Bolts from all sides means Kha needs Tausend Kreuz in his main hand for power sword *ahemlightsabercough* to even stand a chance. Or weather the whole salvo with resilience. He has the Stamina for that. Quote:
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2009-02-28, 02:24 | Link #5463 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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It's just a cage. Made of metal. |
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2009-02-28, 10:02 | Link #5464 | ||||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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So basically... anything that allows you to ride out a thunderstorm (like, say, a car) is a Faraday Cage?
Oh, this is far to amusing to stop. Quote:
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Betrayed in the excitement. |
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2009-02-28, 12:12 | Link #5465 | |
Field Medic
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It not only grounds all external electromagnetic effects out, it also grounds all internal electromagnetic effects out as well. A microwave oven uses a Faraday cage to keep it's microwaves from leaking, for example. some electronic systems, like radios, TVs and computers use Faraday cages to suppress electromagnetic leakage. As a result, in the example provided, it could also be used to contain any Electric or magnetism user because it earths out their powers, forming both a physical and powers-based prison... I daresay you can see the potentials in that... On the subject of the Imagination Breaker...I never thought I'd stoop to using this kind of terminology here...but as it stands, it's a no-limits fallacy that needs better explanation and quantification... because as it stands, it seems to destroy any and all magical constructs. FYI, several characters are Magical constructs, and one-Hit-killing them would not go down well, even if it were by accident. Think of the WolkenRitter, Arf, The Lieze twins, or worse, Rein Zwei... what's more, Linker Cores are, by their definition, potentially classifiable as a form of Magical Construct, in which case Mage Vs Imagination Breaker= one-hit-Ex-Mage. In which case, Touma patting Fate on the shoulder is going to have a lot more consequences than merely exploding her barrier Jacket... |
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2009-02-28, 12:23 | Link #5466 | |||
~ Your Smile ~
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 346Pro
Age: 38
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*is socked on the head by angry imouto* Quote:
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2009-02-28, 12:40 | Link #5467 | ||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Suffice to say, this never happened. So it is logical that a mere touch from Touma would not instantly kill or disable a Nanohaverse mage. A theory to explain this would be that while Linker Cores are responsible for a Mages power, they are still a biological construct. One is born with them or not, they are not created from magic, and thus Imagine Breaker has no effect on them. Quote:
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2009-02-28, 14:56 | Link #5469 | |
OC Belka Scriptor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Age: 40
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It's like the rune in Index mouth, it needs to be touched directly. Imagine Breaker never seems to go through skin as Touma would have deleted the rune as soon he touched Index's face (along with every other magical 'surprises' inside of her, but we know that didn't happen.). And while there are means to extract or expose a Linker Core, these means are of magical nature as well, so someone with Imagine Breaker would never be able to do so alone.
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2009-02-28, 16:05 | Link #5470 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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I would also imagine that once they are 'made', a Unison Device and the Wolkies are pretty much biological entities. They consume food. Food is regular matter. Food provides nutrients and building blocks for an organic body. So if you remember the litteral meaning of 'you are what you eat' , it's initially built by magic, but once it's made, it's SOLID until it's destroyed by force, or 'deconstructed'. (Thus why Nanoha doesn't transform back when she gets KOed, or why the barrier jackets don't just dissappear on the Cradle in the AMF.)
In other words... they are magical entities, but they aren't made of Psudomatter. I would imagine that after the Events in As, when the Wolkies were released from the book permenantly, they ceased to be magically supported constructs held together only by linker core. In order to keep things stable though, to have a barrier jacket explode from just a pat, would probably be along the lines of some kind of feedback surge from the barrier and field effects suddenly failing spectacularly. Probably visually be like a flash and the clothing shreds. |
2009-02-28, 16:21 | Link #5471 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Actually, To Aru was already kind enough to provide us with a crystal clear example of what would happen.
Imagine Breaker doesn't destroy magic through a 'feedback surge' or anything, it simply cancels anything created through supernatural -be it magic or psychic- means. Hence, the problem of the Wolkenritter. Regardless of what they are now, they were created through magical means. I'm all for considering them human, but there are quite a few disagreements on the subject. Vita's wound being one of the primary examples. Last edited by Keroko; 2009-02-28 at 16:37. |
2009-02-28, 16:46 | Link #5472 |
Field Medic
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What's more, we know from Arf's example that Familiars are not only magically created, but also magically supported by the creator too...
the root of the whole Loli-Arf business. that means that any Familiar touched by this would be immediately un-familiar-ised, whether because of the magical creation or the magical support; either way, any Familiar touched is done in. and since Familars have rights, presumably including the right not to be casually lobotomised or even murdered (death of personality equals murder?), the first instance of a Familiar being touched would be the last: he'd be jailed, probably for life... assuming that the whole "do not hurt someone with armed relatives" thing didn't get him killed first. |
2009-02-28, 17:01 | Link #5473 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Which would make rule number one in any To Aru crossover fic to either work away the Familiars/Wolkies (shaft with a reason!), or make sure everyone knows about Touma's Imagine Breaker so all parties at risk can stay away from him.
Best way to write this would be to use the SSX crew or beyond, methinks. That, or find another plot device that excludes the Wolkies (on a mission, busy with administrative work, whatever). |
2009-02-28, 17:12 | Link #5474 |
Field Medic
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Nope, I reckon the best, most believable approach is going to be something akin to B5's Psi-Corp:
He's constantly monitored, has to wear a tracking bug at all times, and always, and I mean ALWAYS has to wear bloody thick insulating gloves except when explicitly given permission not to. Mid (and by extension other other Bureau Territories) has too many instances of magical constructs and Familiars to really let them settle for anything less. especially if Magitech devices are vulnerable (why are we stranded? He touched the Trans-Dimensional drive and it stopped working...) Otherwise, the Bureau is seen to be giving free rein to a person who can literally mindwipe a portion of the Mid population with a touch... he's just too dangerous to not take precautions with, because it doesn't have to be a conscious effort... example, a Familiar falls out of an upper story window... he goes to catch them without thinking... what happens next? |
2009-02-28, 17:25 | Link #5475 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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My version of a crossover would be more the Nanoha cast going to Academy City rather then the other way around. Throwing Touma and co to Mid creates way to many plotholes for me to be bothered with filling, like the aforementioned Familiar problem, and the fact that a great deal of Mid's materials run on, or are made of magic. Then there are the plotholes on To Aru's side that needs to explain why on earth Touma would leave in the first place, and why character X Y and Z followed him.
Meanwhile, it's very easy to find a good deal of reasons virtually devoid of plotholes to send the Nahoha cast to Academy City. Index, Academy City and its advanced Psychic programs, the Angel Fall incident and so on and so on. |
2009-02-28, 17:35 | Link #5476 |
Field Medic
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The trouble with that is that if you send the Nanoha Cast to Academy city, then Academy City IS going to then develop Transdimensional travel
the moment they know it's possible, some person or group or other is going to try it... and when they succeed? the Bureau categorically does not like Outies... I can't see Academy city kowtowing to Bureau rule though... hence, it's War! |
2009-02-28, 17:38 | Link #5477 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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'covert operation' is the answer to that question. If the city doesn't know they're extra-dimensional, they won't start researching the idea.
That, or turn it into a plot device of its own. Or simply ignore it. It's not like they're going to develop dimensional travel out of the blue, it'll take them years before they get that far. More then enough for the plot of the fic to run its course. |
2009-02-28, 17:46 | Link #5478 |
Field Medic
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I point it out because the locals will know damn well that they are mages (unless you choose to send non-mage characters)
they'll also know that they aren't any Mage type that they're used to- they use and manifest magic differently. so they'll get watched, if not studied furiously, by anyone who's around them or sees them doing anything involving magic... and that magic happens to include Dimensional transfers as an apparently elementary ability. Possibly even a fundamental truth of Nanoha-verse magic. this is even more likely if the whole device summoning thing does use subspace pockets as opposed to Pseudomatter formation. |
2009-02-28, 18:17 | Link #5479 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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While I agree that they will quickly be found out as mages (big magic circles are a dead giveaway), I disagree that this will lead to them discovering dimensional magic.
A comparison, if you see someone using a weapon you've never seen before, will you automatically conclude that he must have gotten it from another planet? No, you will probably conclude that it is either a recently developed weapon, or one that has never been revealed before. Same thing here. The magic the cast is using will probably be thought of as a 'new' type of magic by the Psychics, designed to counter their own rapid progression. It's the Magic Churches that will more likely go bananas, but even they might just think that a new rival church has appeared (heck, you can even throw in Belka to further lengthen that confusion). And devices have little impact on this. I point to the various item summoning magic To Aruverse employs itself (summoning of rune-cards, summoning of wires, Ars Magma, and that's just from the top of my head). |
2009-02-28, 18:31 | Link #5480 |
Field Medic
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Yeesh, yeesh, I'll give...
I just wanted to make sure all this was thought out. I'll be blunt; My main Bone of contention is the Imagination Breaker, because I don't like No-Limits-Fallacies, which this thing basically is. When I see things like this, with no appreciable upper limit on them, I always want to scream "Things don't work that way!" There is always someone bigger than you... For example, going by the exact wording of the thing, the moment it started operating, everyone should have died... why? it says even God-level constructs can be 'broken' the Universe is a God-level construct...and was presumably Created using God-level powers, ergo magic of some kind or other... and he's touching it... He's like the Freaking Ideon! but without the bit about having to be destroyed first... thus, he needs limits imposing, and soonest. Because I do not see him wielding a power that can undo God-level powers...if it was so, the first thing that would happen (assuming the Universe wasn't destroyed by it) is that any and every God around would kill him. This clearly hasn't happened. Ergo, he's not a threat to them. Ergo, that whole bit about God-Level powers must be either specific instances, or rhetoric. |
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hayaurion, kaonland, keroland, khrack, original content |
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