US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

H eis worried about voter fraud this election. He's been hearing that their are foreign interests that have control over some of the newer voting systems and have them programmed with the votes already done.

I'd be more worried about Election fraud from the Republicans in tight elections, where:

(a) Voter "recounts" are being done (a.k.a. Florida 2000)
(b) Sudden vote counts appear from... some "random" device, like a laptop, etc. (see Wisconsin Supreme Court election)

Voter fraud are pennies. Election fraud are hundred dollar bills.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with it either, we do it in Australia too. This is no different from buying local fruit to support the farmers, not meant to be a political stance.

Aye, if I saw two lawnmowers on offer, all thing being equal, I'd buy the one with a "Made in Ireland" label. Even if it was a little more expensive.

So it makes sense to advertise that your product was made in the country in question, many like the idea of supporting industry in their local community/country rather then some distant factory half way around the world. It makes sense, as supporting your local economy keeps money in the community, which helps yourself in the long run.

[ganbaru]

Kyuu, you forgot the voting machine than can't count straight.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Kyuu, you forgot the voting machine than can't count straight.

Actually, paper votes are sorted by humans and counted by cash-counting machines.

[ganbaru]

Sorry, I should had said ''electronic'' voting machine.

Edit: Biden Warns Romney Policies Would Put Crowd ‘Back in Chains’
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ucus&seid=auto
Of course, Romney's side were really fast to complain about this one

[FDW]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Sorry, I should had said ''electronic'' voting machine.

Edit: Biden Warns Romney Policies Would Put Crowd ‘Back in Chains’
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ucus&seid=auto
Of course, Romney's side were really fast to complain about this one

They always are…

[frubam]

I just heard Paul Ryan speak for the first time. He's better at selling himself than Romney is (>.>). Maybe that's just youth at play.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by frubam

I just heard Paul Ryan speak for the first time. He's better at selling himself than Romney is (>.>). Maybe that's just youth at play.

Makes sense. Romney just seems really awkward. I think it's partly because he doesn't have a firm belief in anything, and he's trying to craft a new image for himself that doesn't necessarily line up with his beliefs (whether past or present). While I'd hesitate to say that Ryan stands firm by his beliefs (voted for Patriot Act and its extensions, wants to cut spending on everything except defense; yet still claims to want small government and fiscal responsibility), I'm sure that in his mind he's being consistent. At the very least, I don't have a hard time accepting that he stands for something. Romney just seems to take the position of his party and what people want to hear.

[Ithekro]

Well...if nothing is funded by defense, you would techincally have a small government that is only their to defend the country from invasion.

Technically anyway.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well...if nothing is funded by defense, you would techincally have a small government that is only their to defend the country from invasion.

Technically anyway.

Technically? Technically not when the defense spending is over 700 billion dollars. We're spending 6-7x what China spends on their defense budget, and they're the #2 biggest spender on defense at close to $115 billion. Russia is #3 at approximately $60 billion. Compare that to Israel, a country where their military activity is fully necessary: their expenditure for defense is 13 billion. That's over 50x less than what we're spending.

To further put it in perspective, our military budget is greater than the GDP of quite a few countries. I'm not talking about small third-world countries, either; it's about equal to the GDP of Switzerland, and is greater than the GDP of Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Poland, and Belgium, just to name a few.

"Small government" with that much defense spending, and it isn't even justified by imminent threats? These people are living in fantasy.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I wasn't expecting Russia to spend less than 1/10 on Defence than America does. Seriously, they are not any less threatened by extremist groups. So it is telling that they can be no less safe with only a tenth of the spending.

[Ithekro]

Well, at the end of the Cold War, when a large number of bases closed in California, and several military defense contracts left the state, the entire state's economy fell apart.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised in the nation's economy is being held up (covertly) by the manufacture and sale of weapons.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well, at the end of the Cold War, when a large number of bases closed in California, and several military defense contracts left the state, the entire state's economy fell apart.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised in the nation's economy is being held up (covertly) by the manufacture and sale of weapons.

Still, it doesn't help USA's public image to have arms sales being that vital to its economy. It's one of the few things United States still makes on home soil, because it can't be outsourced safely.

Ironic. The Arms industry is not a free market.

[Ithekro]

Selling arms to the Free World. The USA made a lot of money arming and then rearming the Allies in World War II and afterwards. The industry didn't go away as the US was still arming non-Soviet supplied countries for decades.

Not sure how much of that was scaled back following the fall of the Soviet Union, and how much remains because of our rivalry with China, and Russia along with out outright enemies statues with Iran and North Korea, and our decade long paranoia about terrorism. Plus I imagine other things that are much more quiet in the media.

[Netto Azure]

You know what's funny about Wars and Arms sales? When the US withdraws from a war, it's much cheaper to just abandon the stocks of War Materiel in the battlefield than transporting them back to the US. I believe that's one of the main reasons why weapons have proliferated a lot over the decades.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

You know what's funny about Wars and Arms sales? When the US withdraws from a war, it's much cheaper to just abandon the stocks of War Materiel in the battlefield than transporting them back to the US. I believe that's one of the main reasons why weapons have proliferated a lot over the decades.

That is called "spreading their influence with arms of peace".

[ganbaru]

Ryan to meet campaign donors in Las Vegas behind closed doors
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87D11Z20120814
''Dont worry everyone, your influence on this country can only be stronger if we get elected... ''

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Ryan to meet campaign donors in Las Vegas behind closed doors
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87D11Z20120814
''Dont worry everyone, your influence on this country can only be stronger if we get elected... ''

Heh, donor(s)? or donor? That little waddling casino mogul is pouring as much as $100 million of donations into the R/R campaign not to mention PAC monies.


Also, picking Ryan as VP candidate just had the "bonus" of nationalizing all local elections. So though Elder Citizen may like Republican Joebob of their district, they now have front and center that Joebob is part of a party that will "end Medicare/SS as we know it". Nationalizing local elections is historically bad news for the offending party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/us...-congress.html

[sikvod00]

It always bothered me the way many elderly people looked at government assistance; their view is quite selective. Social safety net programs that largely benefit them--medicare and SS--are all fine and dandy. Everything else should just be slashed because it's wasteful and only promotes dependency. It's as if only their group is "worthy" of entitlements, while others are just leeches and free-loaders.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

It always bothered me the way many elderly people looked at government assistance; their view is quite selective. Social safety net programs that largely benefit them--medicare and SS--are all fine and dandy. Everything else should just be slashed because it's wasteful and only promotes dependency. It's as if only their group is "worthy" of entitlements, while others are just leeches and free-loaders.

A lot of these elderly people were around in the 30s-40s when FDR promised this kind of stuff to them. They've had 60+ years getting used to the idea and some of them have been living on SS for ages already. Then you also have them living through the cold war where anything socialism was "Communist activity" and was the enemy. They've just been shaped by their own experiences like anyone else.