2010-01-24, 16:02 | Link #5641 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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do what Ender did, beat them so hard they are now more scare of you then thinking ganging up on you again.
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2010-01-24, 17:42 | Link #5642 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I think most of us can understand the victim, but I don't think most consider that from the bully's point of view, he/she actually feels fully justified in his/her actions. Since most fear-based punishment approaches that is typically used here won't work in changing that mindset, and if the authorities ignore the situation, then an approach where victims would not be punished in turn for defending themselves would be no worse. It can potentially be better by at least removing the satisfaction of bullying from the bullies. Quote:
Spoiler for could've been better; could've been worse:
But yes I certainly do think it wiser to try to deter bullying. I'm not advocating an immediate retaliatory approach, but a sort of right to defend oneself, where victims won't end up the ones punished by using actions that may appear to be instigated by them (from those who have ignored the situation), as a last resort. (BTW interestingly researchers now say that Hammurabi created the eye-for-an-eye law in order to prevent any escalation of violence actually) |
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2010-01-24, 18:08 | Link #5643 | |
Senior Member
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Case in point. 1994-1995 my Freshman year of High School. Robert Nintemen and his band of merry men use to harass me every day in P.E.(Physical Education). EVERY DAY. I was a massive 5'0" and 85-90 lbs(third smallest guy in a school of 2200 students), to his 5'7" 145 lbs. Finally after several months of abuse, I stood my ground and hit him until he cried. His 4 friends were all set to jump me 4vs1, when the Seniors showed up and told them anything more than 1v1 would get them involved to even the odds. Robert never even looked at me again over the next 3 1/2 years.... Sophmore year, P.E. class. A student I wasn't really familiar with, started the same crap at every opportunity. Pushing me into the bleachers when playing basketball. Knocking me into a fence during football. Again I decided to stand up to him. His friends were there to back him up. The Seniors came along and backed me up. A fight didn't break out, but they backed down, and never bothered me again. Everytime I tried to avoid them, ran away, went to teachers and staff, nothing happened. Everytime I stood up for myself and faced the bullies head on, I ended up finding peace. The only thing Bulliest respect is strength. If you don't show them strength, they will not even so much as pity you while they kick you down. Stand up to them and give them a taste of their own pain, and 99.999% of the time they will go away, or end up being your best friend years later. 100% of the time you try and avoid bullies or run away, they will only get worse.
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2010-01-24, 18:21 | Link #5644 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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To the people who say beat them to living death, my point is that there will always be a bully, sometimes there just people who are physically stronger but sometimes they are people with real power, authority, such as the police, or a boss. These people don't have to use physical means to bully you. Of course bullying for kids tends to be that of physical in nature when dealing with kids, in the end the problem lies with the acceptance of bullying, and lack of action and societal outrage to this kind of behavior. There will always be a bully, and sometimes those bullies have more control than just being more imposing physically. I understand the need to confront bullies but dealing only with childhood bullies is not the only thing that needs to be addressed, the use of intimadation and misuse of power is also important to look at.
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2010-01-24, 18:28 | Link #5645 | |
Frandle & Nightbag
Join Date: Oct 2009
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If you pursue things through the proper channels with enough conviction then you can get the far more effective message through of "your behavior will not fly in society" rather "if you screw with me personally I will beat you up", which only bolsters your own ego and doesn't actually correct the problem except in Shounen manga. And once again, you only even have the luxury of fighting someone and expecting it to work even the rarest of times if you're in a very insular, safe environment where you socking the kid one day doesn't get you killed walking home the next week. It's just a poor policy all around.
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2010-01-24, 20:29 | Link #5646 | |
Aspiring Aspirer
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But that is true; bullies only stop when you show them that you can kick their ass. I would know, seeing as I was bullied and bullied during elementary school (Looking back on it I had a really violent childhood; didn't I?) Bullies only know strength be it physical or through authority. If you're "strong" people aren't going to try bullying you, in the inside most bullies are afraid of getting the crap beaten out of them; they're naturally insecure and need to prove their dominance.
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2010-01-24, 20:33 | Link #5647 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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But that doesn't guarantee the bully won't do the same regardless if he's punished in an official manner. In fact I'd contend that in some cases it may be worse. If you go report it and the authorities they make a big deal about it, especially if they shame the bully publicly even when his parents are involved, then that could lead to a huge amount of resentment that gets built up. He might be thinking, "You just wait, I'll get you yet you f'ing tattling pussy". I have to say that it sounds really naive to think they telling a bully who you say would potentially come back at you with a gun that being lectured from proper channels would make a difference. They're aware of their own actions; they just feel justified somehow. Punishing them "officially" -- if it even happens -- is not likely to change their minds. Getting them into big trouble, they may even think "what have I got to loose?" Sometimes settling matters personally can help. I think it's also important not conflate the kind of bullying we see here, where people do it because they can get away with it, often through ignorance or negligence of the teachers and parents, with the kind the of gansterism you might be alluding to. It's a whole different world, really (and there isn't even much of the same kind of bullying). If you're dealing with vatos who just don't give a fuck, trust me, they're way past caring about "your behavior will not fly in society" (in fact, they'll resent it even more). I'm not saying to confront or provoke them without reason, but actually deal with them straight-on, calmly asking "why", "what do they want", then asking if they want settle things in honest manner, would work 10x better than trying to get them suspended from school--in which case, for someone who already doesn't care, will surely increase the chances of them picking up a gun. In a weird, perhaps chauvinistic way, it may be seen by the offender as providing more integrity and actually has a chance to remove the desire for bullying in him, like a catharsis for the emotional root cause. |
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2010-01-24, 21:18 | Link #5648 | |||||
Frandle & Nightbag
Join Date: Oct 2009
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I'm sure there are cases where taking the initiative to lay down the law yourself works out, but I saw enough kids get hospitalized or killed over it versus the kids who were just clever enough to avoid those people in the first place that it genuinely seems like the wrong course to me. The kind of direct discussion you're talking about only ever happens if the person has honor and reason, which is pretty rare in the sort of gangster we're talking about. TL;DR: I'm making a distinction between the situations where the violence works (bullying) and the situations where it doesn't (adult world, gangsterism) to counter the 'well, beating up these guys worked for me, so that's how you stand up for yourself' approach I'm seeing.
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2010-01-24, 21:22 | Link #5649 | |
Senior Member
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I had since returned the favor my Senior year and stood up for Fresmen/Sophmores who were going through what I had gone through. |
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2010-01-24, 22:02 | Link #5650 | ||
✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mortuary : D
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All White BasketBall League
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2010-01-24, 22:31 | Link #5655 | ||
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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The commisioner's own quote says it all: Quote:
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2010-01-24, 22:33 | Link #5657 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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no need for WET... there's subtler version called CMT
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Confederate flag actually looks good on the plate and roof of Dodge Charger |
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2010-01-24, 23:00 | Link #5660 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Looks like Bin Laden sends Obama a warning
Bin Laden warns Obama of more attacks Quote:
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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