Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Nobodyman9]

^Gee blade, that synopsis wouldn't have anything to do with your own views the whole ZR deal would it? Seriously though, that does seem like an interesting plot and it could very well work as a series. Though I find it very hard to view either side as particularly antagonistic. Whereas with Code Geass as we know it, Britannia was definitely antagonistic in nature, but here it seems like we've got two sides with relatively decent and noble causes. That being said, it actually could make for a good show what with there being no true villain and each side fighting for what they believe to be right.

Personally, I've had my own little contemplations about a third season. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout the course of Code Geass I don't think we ever saw a Brittanian Prince that was younger than Lelouch. I always thought it would be pretty cool to see, as a twist, a Brittanian Prince that's younger but every bit as intelligent and cunning as Lelouch, and perhaps a bit more evil. The third season could be about this prince who's stayed in the shadows and been biding his time in order to bring about a new empire and claim the Britannian throne. Of course this prince would be mostly antagonistic in nature.

[bladeofdarkness]

while i fully admit that the script reflects my views on Z-R
you cant deny that it also makes perfect sense that just about ANYONE who realized the truth about Z-R (and wasnt personally close to either lelouch or suzaku) would view it in the same way
especially if they were themselves the victim of lelouch's actions

and it does present the ideal situation of both protagonist AND antagonist being equally fit for the role of either hero or villain

about your idea
i'm pretty sure that when pendragon was destroyed the royal line was gone with it
and even if it didnt
how younger would this prince be
leouch was 18 when he got started

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

while i fully admit that the script reflects my views on Z-R
you cant deny that it also makes perfect sense that just about ANYONE who realized the truth about Z-R (and wasnt personally close to either lelouch or suzaku) would view it in the same way
especially if they were themselves the victim of lelouch's actions

Or they could just go with it and agree that, while some of the means were questionable, it did effectively bring peace and stability to the world. I think it depends of the persons POV. Of course, for the sake of the story, it would have to be someone who objects to Lelouch and Suzaku's methods. Overall, I do think it is a good idea for a story.

about your idea
i'm pretty sure that when pendragon was destroyed the royal line was gone with it
and even if it didnt
how younger would this prince be
leouch was 18 when he got started

It was implied that most or all of the royal line was wiped out. Besides, if this younger prince is a genius he very well could have had the foresight to leave Pendragon. Or he could have just been away from the city for some other reason.
As for his age, I was thinking something like 12 or 13. I dunno, I personally always found the evil demon child angle to be quite creepy (see The Omen and V.V. And yes I know V.V. is technically as old as Charles)

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Or they could just go with it and agree that, while some of the means were questionable, it did effectively bring peace and stability to the world. I think it depends of the persons POV. Of course, for the sake of the story, it would have to be someone who objects to Lelouch and Suzaku's methods. Overall, I do think it is a good idea for a story.

i kinda find it hard to believe that anyone who lost their family to lelouch's reign of terror would be willing to let it slide
especially since the peace and stability is based on a lie, and maintained by a man who should be hung beside lelouch as the greatest monster in history (in the eyes of the code geass universe)
dont forget that the key here isnt the POV of "wrong means"
we arent talking about kallen or nunnaly who understand lelouch in the end, and know that he is a good man after all
this person believes that lelouch was a monster just like the rest of the world does, he just understands that lelouch's DEATH was part of the plan and isnt the end of his xanatos gambit
he wants to put an end to that gambit in the same way that lelouch wanted to end charles and shnizel's

if you REALLY want to complicate things, the antagonist in question may not even believe that lelouch is really dead at all
after all, he views lelouch in the same way that the rest of the world does, as a complete monster tyrant
he/she may believe that lelouch had faked his own death and is now effectively running the world from behind the scenes, using nunnaly (his sister, and emperess of britannia) and suzaku (his best friend, and most powerful political figure in the world) as a proxy
and that the only way to force him to come out of the shadows is to threaten his game pieces.

It was implied that most or all of the royal line was wiped out. Besides, if this younger prince is a genius he very well could have had the foresight to leave Pendragon. Or he could have just been away from the city for some other reason.
As for his age, I was thinking something like 12 or 13. I dunno, I personally always found the evil demon child angle to be quite creepy (see The Omen and V.V. And yes I know V.V. is technically as old as Charles)

12-13 seems kinda young
do you really want suzaku and nunnaly fighting against a mid-school student ?

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i kinda find it hard to believe that anyone who lost their family to lelouch's reign of terror would be willing to let it slide
especially since the peace and stability is based on a lie, and maintained by a man who should be hung beside lelouch as the greatest monster in history (in the eyes of the code geass universe)
dont forget that the key here isnt the POV of "wrong means"
we arent talking about kallen or nunnaly who understand lelouch in the end, and know that he is a good man after all
this person believes that lelouch was a monster just like the rest of the world does, he just understands that lelouch's DEATH was part of the plan and isnt the end of his xanatos gambit
he wants to put an end to that gambit in the same way that lelouch wanted to end charles and shnizel's

if you REALLY want to complicate things, the antagonist in question may not even believe that lelouch is really dead at all
after all, he views lelouch in the same way that the rest of the world does, as a complete monster tyrant
he/she may believe that lelouch had faked his own death and is now effectively running the world from behind the scenes, using nunnaly (his sister, and emperess of britannia) and suzaku (his best friend, and most powerful political figure in the world) as a proxy
and that the only way to force him to come out of the shadows is to threaten his game pieces.

All good points. Of course humans do have a tendency to jump to conclusions, and what with Lelouch being the evil tyrant that he was...well, you know. I guess it would be like if Hitler, after his suicide, had one of his top officers play the role of a masked hero to usher in a new era of peace to Germany/the world. So yeah, I could see that happening.

12-13 seems kinda young
do you really want suzaku and nunnaly fighting against a mid-school student ?

Well, why not? Have a little imagination blade.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

i kinda find it hard to believe that anyone who lost their family to lelouch's reign of terror would be willing to let it slide
especially since the peace and stability is based on a lie, and maintained by a man who should be hung beside lelouch as the greatest monster in history (in the eyes of the code geass universe)

Here is the thing; we haven't seen Lulu kill ANYONE in his supposed "reign of terror".

The simplest explanation is that Lulu didn't kill anyone; he just spread the rumors that he DID, and that alone +imprisoning people for a future execution that was never going to happen, is enough to get everyone angry for nothing.

Lulu always talk big; he likes to make everyone think he is a monster. But in the end, he is far better at pretending to be a monster than actually BEING one.

Putting his brothers in the army, and putting his sisters to work as maids? You have ANY idea how nice that is for a new Emperor? If he really wanted a reign of terror, Lulu would have all their heads on pikes.

Yes, the peace and stability was a lie. But so was the reign of terror, so it all evens out.

[bladeofdarkness]

what are you talking about
lelouch killed anyone who opposed him in britannia (jeremia starts ep 22 by teling him about ANOTHER one he just killed)
when the KoR raise against him, suzaku puts them down like dogs without a moments care
he killed thousends of his own troops and black knight forces
and he tell suzaku IN PRIVATE that he would spill rivers of blood until euphie's memory is erased
he didnt pretend to do anything
he didnt try to PRETEND to be the worlds worst dictator
he WAS the worlds worst dictator
that was the bloody point

there is no reason whatsoever to believe that he would hold back when the plan REQUIRED him to be a monster
especially in light of what we had already seen him do anyway in the final arc
and most especially since he admited that he would kill even NUNNALY for the sake of this plan

and my original message was about the nobility specificlly (whcih he confirmed to have been putting down with force)

[Charred Knight]

Lelouch: I have Imprisoned a bunch of people! Look at how evil I am!
Britannian: So? Charles killed millions

Charles had several massacres, for Lelouch to be worse than his dad Lelouch was probably spending a lot of time burning down orphanages with the orphans still inside. For example, the center of Tokyo contained 10 million Britannians, so at least 10 million Japanese had to go for the Britannians. While it could be possible for Britannian to somehow transport 10 million people the most likely scenario was that everyone in the center of Tokyo was killed, and the Britannian's destroyed the center and just rebuilt it for their use.

Keep in mind that not only did the nobility hate Lelouch but the average citizen did as well, for that to happen Lelouch must have done a lot of massacres, not just of nobility but the common people as well.

Most likely to surpass Charles, Lelouch probably killed about 100 million people. Although it could be half that or even a quarter of that if Japan's massacres where unique due to the heavy immigration of Britannians.

As for Zero Requiem, history has told us of a similar event

Lelouch= Hitler
Britannia, Japan = Russia, and Britain/America

By the end of the war Britain wanted to attack Russia. Russia soon blockaded Berlin to prevent America and Britain from running a part of it, and America nuked Japan to quickly end the war in part because Russia declared war on Japan and wanted a piece of it.

[yvj]

Lelouch is closer to Vlad the Impaler than Hitler IMO

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

Lelouch is closer to Vlad the Impaler than Hitler IMO

Yeah, but with Godwin's Law you know we had to bring him up eventually.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Yeah, but with Godwin's Law you know we had to bring him up eventually.

"Sugar is bad. Sugar rots your teeth. Sugar makes you hyper. Hitler ate sugar. Lelouch drank coffee with two spoonfuls every morning."

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

"Sugar is bad. Sugar rots your teeth. Sugar makes you hyper. Hitler ate sugar. Lelouch drank coffee with two spoonfuls every morning."

Hitler also:

-Had black hair
-Wore pants
-Went to school
-Lived in a building
-Drank water
-Was a man
-And, of course, was madder than a hatter.

I could go on.

[Rising Dragon]

Yes, but most people would agree that Lelouch being a man was potentially debatable.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yes, but most people would agree that Lelouch being a man was potentially debatable.

Touche.



Yeah, that's Hitler material all right

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Touche.



Yeah, that's Hitler material all right

Too Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Lelouch Lamperouge

This is what really happened after ZR. Lelouch alive and living as a drag queen who plays cabaret gigs in the middle of the desert

[bladeofdarkness]

what ever tyrant you want to compare him to
the result is the same
lelouch needed to become the WORST DICTATOR IN HISTORY
and considering that his direct predecessor was charles...
he would have had to work extra hard to cram as much dickery into only 2 months before he died
and considering that people were scared to even call him names, i'm fairly sure that the idea of him killing anyone who speaks out against him is not far fetched (he already did it in britannia, he just has to take it to a global scale next)

he could potentially exaggerate things with rumers
but to say that EVERYTHING was a rumor is nonsense

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

what are you talking about
lelouch killed anyone who opposed him in britannia (jeremia starts ep 22 by teling him about ANOTHER one he just killed)
when the KoR raise against him, suzaku puts them down like dogs without a moments care
he killed thousends of his own troops and black knight forces
and he tell suzaku IN PRIVATE that he would spill rivers of blood until euphie's memory is erased
he didnt pretend to do anything
he didnt try to PRETEND to be the worlds worst dictator
he WAS the worlds worst dictator
that was the bloody point

The thing is Blade when he was putting down the rebel Nobels and the KoR's the "common man" still viewed him as the "Emperor of Justice". I mean they were still calling him that when he arrived at the meeting with the UFN before he pulled that douchebaggery.

If the populace of Britannia didn't have a problem with what he was doing to the nobility at that time it just goes to show what epic douchebags the must've been if the people just went "goodbye and good riddance".


He only really became a douchebag after what happened with the UFN and apart from sacrificing his ground troops with the Fuji trap and the "we have reserves moment" we never see him do anything else bad.

Okay he takes over the world, thats not bad though since the UFN/BK's practically admitted that if they won they were going to make the average Britannian a second class people for revenge/spite/whatever by reducing there voting rights if they even got into the UFN in the first place.

Nowhere in the show, sound eps, PD's or supplemental material does it say that he massacred "X" million people, or kicked puppies or stole kids ice-cream. Until its confirmed by some official material none of it actually happened.

[roriconfan]

So... how could he be hated by everyone if he didn't do "bad" things?
Oh, I know, another one of those "it is implied I'm hitting you" cases...

[bladeofdarkness]

by that same token charles was a model emperor
after all, its not like the common people hated him
and its not like they out right SAID that he massacred people left and right (what his crazy children do is their fuck ups)

LELOUCH on the other hand tells suzaku that he would spill rivers of blood
so thats a confirmation of intent at least (and this is not related to the nobles, since he says it afterwards)

and while it doesnt actually SAY how many people he killed
i doubt that he would become the most hated man in history without actually doing something to EARN that title (in the eyes of EVERYONE, not just the UFN)
and considering he had to top charles...

Okay he takes over the world, thats not bad though since the UFN/BK's practically admitted that if they won they were going to make the average Britannian a second class people for revenge/spite/whatever by reducing there voting rights if they even got into the UFN in the first place.

THAT is complete nonsense
they didnt say anything about what they'd do IF THEY WON
they demended that lelouch either split up britannia into smaller countries, or accept less voting power per head, as terms of letting britannia become part of the UFN
and both of these demands were made because without one of them at least, britannia would have automatic majority vote and basiclly turn the UFN into britannia's tool
and considering that LELOUCH was the one who wanted britannia to join (they didnt offer him to join), this would only be reasonable (if he doesnt like it, he can just NOT JOIN)

[Nobodyman9]

All I'm gonna say is, considering that Lelouch was supposed the worst most tyrannical dictator in history, his "reign of terror" was very underplayed.