Shin High School DxD Volume 2 Discussion

[thefreakmike]

Kuroka lost to Koneko because of the plot

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

You really didn't get my point on them being black operatives. All them participating in the Azazel Cup means is that their abilities (not necessarily all) are known. Rudiger's strategical approach, however, is not focused at all on the opponents' abilities, but on their personalities and emotional weaknesses, not something that is necessarily exposed in Game matches, much less for secret agents.

Dulio didn't fight a serious Crom Cruach seeing as how he's on par with a partial PDxD Issei (figure accounted for when canceling out Dulio's advantage in light with the close range combat that ensued). To compare this to Tobio's high showings, Tobio in his base BxB utterly demolished an executive-class Grim Reaper. To account for other executives we know of, there's Pluto and Thanatos, first of which didn't have issue fighting armored Azazel and the latter who is much superior to partial PDXD. Of course, Thanatos is the strongest so the one Tobio destroyed was not as strong as Thanatos, but seeing as how Tobio didn't have any difficulty in exterminating it without even using his full power, that says a lot.

I don't see how it's relevant to this that Dulio's team defeated Issei's, considering it was by a very low margin and that Rudiger had immense psychological knowledge on Issei's members which he doesn't necessarily have on Tobio's, and with Dulio's team having the advantage of light against various of Issei's members, who are Devils.

An unnamed ultimate-class Grim Reaper. Isn't as impressive as your saying. Pluto was famous among the world as the romen god of the underworld. Thanatos wasn't stronger then Issei he was faster. He got easily taken out by an attack as strong as infinity blaster. For example an ultimate-class devil isn't as strong as a Maou or a Cadre as strong as Azazel.

[fan]

sorry but kuroka losing to koneko is not a bad thing . It means koneko doesn't need her sister to protect her anymore . if kuroka won that would mean koneko didn't get any stronger . koneko wasn't trying to beat her sister she was trying to beat her past self

[Parry999]

Accept the fact Kuroka took two bishops to reincarnate and was far superior to Rias orginally. She also trains a lot.

[fan]

well at least kuroka and koneko can move foward now . kuroka wanted her sister to win that is why she provoked her

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by Parry999

An unnamed ultimate-class Grim Reaper. Isn't as impressive as your saying. Pluto was famous among the world as the romen god of the underworld. Thanatos wasn't stronger then Issei he was faster. He got easily taken out by an attack as strong as infinity blaster. For example an ultimate-class devil isn't as strong as a Maou or a Cadre as strong as Azazel.

How does him being unnamed make him any lesser? Are Hades' Maou-class Devils significantly lesser than someone like the original Maou just because they're less known? Renown does not necessarily equate to ability.

What you are speaking on the matter of Thanatos refers to PDxD, not partial PDxD. Thanatos completely outclassed CxC and Ddraig said that partial PDxD would also be no issue to him. He was only clearly weaker (yet faster) when compared to PDXD.

And why do you mention Ultimate-class Devils? They aren't a figure here, unless you are trying to say that Ultimate-class Grim Reapers are on par with Ultimate-class Devils, in which case you are completely incorrect. Grim Reapers of a respective class have been stated as being as strong as a Devil of a class higher, for example, a Mid-class Grim Reapers equals a High-Class Devil and so on. This would put the average of Ultimate-class Grim Reapers at around Maou-class.

[AP24]

Azazel said in Vol 11 that everyone in Rias' original peerage was already at high-class devil level at the time, so they all should be ultimate-class level at least by now. A lot of the fights in recent volumes pretty much confirmed it.

Rias' balor form is above maou-class. Koneko has defeated an ultimate-class devil. Akeno has 8 fallen angel wings now and those that have 10 wings are considered maou-class. Kiba was able to overwhelm Bikou who is ultimate-class devil level. Asia has Fafnir who is at least ultimate-class devil level.

Rias' team should be stronger in terms of firepower since it had 3 transcendental-level members (Rias, Strada, Crom) while Issei's team only had 2 (Issei and Ddraig).

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by AP24

Rias' team should be stronger in terms of firepower since it had 3 transcendental-level members (Rias, Strada, Crom) while Issei's team only had 2 (Issei and Ddraig).

Not quite so. Sonneillon and Gressil are explicitly above Maou-class (mentioned as so in Volume 24) and not yet Transcendental-class (in Volume 25 Verrine said the task was to make them so in the tournament and in Volume 24 they were only stated as having the possibility to become such), so saying Rias is Transcendental-class is an unwarranted stretch. Not really proven.

You're also ignoring the entire rest of their teams.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by AP24

Azazel said in Vol 11 that everyone in Rias' original peerage was already at high-class devil level at the time, so they all should be ultimate-class level at least by now. A lot of the fights in recent volumes pretty much confirmed it.

Rias' balor form is above maou-class. Koneko has defeated an ultimate-class devil. Akeno has 8 fallen angel wings now and those that have 10 wings are considered maou-class. Kiba was able to overwhelm Bikou who is ultimate-class devil level. Asia has Fafnir who is at least ultimate-class devil level.

Rias' team should be stronger in terms of firepower since it had 3 transcendental-level members (Rias, Strada, Crom) while Issei's team only had 2 (Issei and Ddraig).

It was never stated anywhere that those with 10 wings are Maou-class. We know that Azazel and Barakiel are Cadre-level fallen angels but we have no idea if that translates to Maou-class.

And again Ddraig is not on Issei's team. And Fafnir isn't on Issei's team either.

And again not sure if you should call Rias transcendental as Balor Form isn't a form she can don whenever. Like Sairaorg's Balance Breaker isn't something he can don whenever.

Gasper and Regulus are fully independent beings who can move around of their own free will.

And the only confirmed Maou-class beings are Serafall, Falbium, Grayfia, Diehauser, Tiamat(well they say she is), Sonneilon, and Gresil. Those are the ones that have statements confirming they're Maou-class.

Issei, Vali, Cao Cao, Dulio, Tobio, and Strada can also be said to be on that level.

[AP24]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

It was never stated anywhere that those with 10 wings are Maou-class. We know that Azazel and Barakiel are Cadre-level fallen angels but we have no idea if that translates to Maou-class.

And again Ddraig is not on Issei's team. And Fafnir isn't on Issei's team either.

And again not sure if you should call Rias transcendental as Balor Form isn't a form she can don whenever. Like Sairaorg's Balance Breaker isn't something he can don whenever.

Gasper and Regulus are fully independent beings who can move around of their own free will.

And the only confirmed Maou-class beings are Serafall, Falbium, Grayfia, Diehauser, Tiamat(well they say she is), Sonneilon, and Gresil. Those are the ones that have statements confirming they're Maou-class.

Issei, Vali, Cao Cao, Dulio, Tobio, and Strada can also be said to be on that level.

I think it was mentioned that Azazel, Shemhazai, Baraqiel, Kokabiel are as strong as maou-class devils.

Transcendental-level is the official class for any devil that is above maou-class. Any devil that is god-class and heavenly dragon-class would be put together as transcendental-level officially since there are very few devils who are at this level.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

And the only confirmed Maou-class beings are Serafall, Falbium, Grayfia, Diehauser, Tiamat(well they say she is), Sonneilon, and Gresil. Those are the ones that have statements confirming they're Maou-class.

Sonneillon and Gressil are above Maou-class.

Originally Posted by AP24

Transcendental-level is the official class for any devil that is above maou-class. Any devil that is god-class and heavenly dragon-class would be put together as transcendental-level officially since there are very few devils who are at this level.

That is incorrect as Sonneillon and Gressil are officially above Maou-class and yet are explicitly not Transcendental-class.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by AP24

Azazel said in Vol 11 that everyone in Rias' original peerage was already at high-class devil level at the time, so they all should be ultimate-class level at least by now. A lot of the fights in recent volumes pretty much confirmed it.

Rias' balor form is above maou-class. Koneko has defeated an ultimate-class devil. Akeno has 8 fallen angel wings now and those that have 10 wings are considered maou-class. Kiba was able to overwhelm Bikou who is ultimate-class devil level. Asia has Fafnir who is at least ultimate-class devil level.

Rias' team should be stronger in terms of firepower since it had 3 transcendental-level members (Rias, Strada, Crom) while Issei's team only had 2 (Issei and Ddraig).

In terms of fire power Issei's Team is superior. Rias only have a single top 10 class fighter (Crom). Issei team has 2. (Issei and Ddraig). Ddraig alone has shown he can take on 2 God Class fighters when he wasted Typhon and Apollon.

Rossweisse with her staff defeated the strongest Valkyrie in Norse. Asia is not an offensive fighter but her defense is God Class. Not even Crom could break through her defenses.

Grayfia is Maou class, Xenovia is immortal and has one of the highest raw power on her team.

Rias strategy was basically using multiple people to gang up on a single person on Issei's Team. Unfortunately that tactic was too basic which made it easier for Ravel's plan to work.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by AP24

Transcendental-level is the official class for any devil that is above maou-class. Any devil that is god-class and heavenly dragon-class would be put together as transcendental-level officially since there are very few devils who are at this level.

Still we don't know how some of these overlap.

For example for devils we have: Low-class, mid-class, high-class, Ultimate-class, Maou-class, and Transcendental.

For dragons: Dragon King-level, Heavenly Dragon-level

For fallen angels: Cadre-level

For angels: Seraph-level

For gods: God-class

It's very unclear how some of these power levels interconnect with each other.

[AP24]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Sonneillon and Gressil are above Maou-class.

That is incorrect as Sonneillon and Gressil are officially above Maou-class and yet are explicitly not Transcendental-class.

Their data readings are above maou-class, but overall they are categorized as maou-class.

[Jedsada]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

In terms of fire power Issei's Team is superior. Rias only have a single top 10 class fighter (Crom). Issei team has 2. (Issei and Ddraig). Ddraig alone has shown he can take on 2 God Class fighters when he wasted Typhon and Apollon.

Rossweisse with her staff defeated the strongest Valkyrie in Norse. Asia is not an offensive fighter but her defense is God Class. Not even Crom could break through her defenses.

Grayfia is Maou class, Xenovia is immortal and has one of the highest raw power on her team.

Rias strategy was basically using multiple people to gang up on a single person on Issei's Team. Unfortunately that tactic was too basic which made it easier for Ravel's plan to work.

Actually, if Rias continued her strategy and kept her team together, the result might be different. However, she decided to break the formation and ended up alone with Gasper and Kiba, which eventually led to her defeat.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by AP24

Their data readings are above maou-class, but overall they are categorized as maou-class.

Not really. They have never once been called Maou-class, and the quote is "measured rank" not data readings.

<<The measured rank of Sonneillon[3] and Gressil[4] are above Maou-class — also>>

[AP24]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Not really. They have never once been called Maou-class, and the quote is "measured rank" not data readings.

<<The measured rank of Sonneillon[3] and Gressil[4] are above Maou-class — also>>

There is also this quote around that part.
"Among a hundred thousand Devils, there are two who are Maou-class, and two Super Devils…"

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by AP24

There is also this quote around that part.
"Among a hundred thousand Devils, there are two who are Maou-class, and two Super Devils…"

Fair enough, then. I missed that one, but if anything, that would make Rias Maou-class, not Transcendental. As the only other instance of "above Maou-class" has been Sonneillon and Gressil.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

It was never stated anywhere that those with 10 wings are Maou-class. We know that Azazel and Barakiel are Cadre-level fallen angels but we have no idea if that translates to Maou-class.

And again Ddraig is not on Issei's team. And Fafnir isn't on Issei's team either.

And again not sure if you should call Rias transcendental as Balor Form isn't a form she can don whenever. Like Sairaorg's Balance Breaker isn't something he can don whenever.

Gasper and Regulus are fully independent beings who can move around of their own free will.

And the only confirmed Maou-class beings are Serafall, Falbium, Grayfia, Diehauser, Tiamat(well they say she is), Sonneilon, and Gresil. Those are the ones that have statements confirming they're Maou-class.

Issei, Vali, Cao Cao, Dulio, Tobio, and Strada can also be said to be on that level.

If they are not part of the team what are they then?

[sbh1fr]

Any spoilers on next volume in the afterword? I mean would it be kyoto (kuno) volume, or would it be vali vs sun wukong?