High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Am I contradicting myself? Not at all, it's just you're missing the point so I'll explain throughly. The point of "Rias is strong without him" is because until vol. 22, Rias have relied on Issei's strength. Not only by being the strongest in her peerage but also relied on his strength by using collaboration technique (Crimson Extinct Dragonar). Now with her new team she replaced that strength by having Crom Crunch (someone who's stronger than Issei) and having a collaboration technique with Gasper (a form stronger than Crimson Extinct Dragon).

Now while it's true she uses Gasper's strength to cover her weakness, she doesn't rely on him more than necessary. She only uses his strength if she's battles Maou and God class beings, people who are out of her league. In short, she relies on Gasper but doesn't rely too much on him.

For Issei, it's fine for him to use Ravel to cover his weakness of making strategies but the problem was he was relying too much on Ravel. For most of the tournament, Ravel has not only gave the tactics but also leading his team. Something that Issei should be doing. Also he needed to balance his way of leading because Ravel's mother warned him about this. Ravel's style is supremacy which conflicted with Issei's kingship of righteousness.

Issei had multiple flaws he needed to fix because he was still new to his role as King. As to Rias, who is much more experienced didn't have many flaws and only needed to cover her weakness of strength by using Gasper.

Then, Rias is strong without Issei because she replaced what he brought to her (muscles) with better things (better muscles). But the same can not be said about Issei? We can also say he's strong without Rias, right? He basically replaced what she brought to him (brain) with something better (Ravel).

I do not think Issei was leaving the whole lead of the team in Ravel's hands. I mean ... she's the strategist. During the RG if things change and she needs to adjust the strategy and positioning of the team members, it is not really necessary for her to be asking Issei to give the order to the other servants. She can give the order herself. She's like a vice captain. I do not see any problem with that.

And I still do not understand how that makes Rias a much better King than Issei. She is more balanced (she is a decent strategist at best, and by herself she is not too weak and not too strong), while he is very good at one thing (battle power) but weak at the other (strategy creation). In my opinion they are on the same level as Kings.

[Parry999]

@Palmito agreed it's also a part of Ises character to prove people wrong about how dumb and weak he is.

[Hakai]

I'd consider Ise to be one of the best Kings even currently. Why? He's Heavenly Dragon level so it'll be a pain in the ass to retire him, in most games defeating the King means game over. He's also top level support as well since he can share his power with his servants.

Pick any team from top 16, you'd have to replace the king with either Ise or Rias. Who would you rather choose for a better/stronger team? Exactly.

If Sona can be considered a good king despite not being as "balanced" as Rias(lacks strength) then Ise can be a good king too.

Strength also matters.

[KnightShade]

Is it actually still a meme in/out of the series that issei is still this power idiot? Like at what point can we actually acknowledge that he has been outsmarting tactical geniuses left and right?

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

Is it actually still a meme in/out of the series that issei is still this power idiot? Like at what point can we actually acknowledge that he has been outsmarting tactical geniuses left and right?

He humiliate the best tactical genius in the series Cao Cao twice and overwhelmed a freaking God of war with 1000s if not 10000s years of combat experience. He is a freaking monster lol

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Then, Rias is strong without Issei because she replaced what he brought to her (muscles) with better things (better muscles). But the same can not be said about Issei? We can also say he's strong without Rias, right? He basically replaced what she brought to him (brain) with something better (Ravel).

I do not think Issei was leaving the whole lead of the team in Ravel's hands. I mean ... she's the strategist. During the RG if things change and she needs to adjust the strategy and positioning of the team members, it is not really necessary for her to be asking Issei to give the order to the other servants. She can give the order herself. She's like a vice captain. I do not see any problem with that.

And I still do not understand how that makes Rias a much better King than Issei. She is more balanced (she is a decent strategist at best, and by herself she is not too weak and not too strong), while he is very good at one thing (battle power) but weak at the other (strategy creation). In my opinion they are on the same level as Kings.

Rias is a better king for multiple reasons. Remember what Azazel told Rias in volume 5? Being a king is more about training your mind and right now that's what Issei lacks. Rias is leader and tactician of her team with the only weakness is power to which she covered up by using Gasper. Furthermore, Rias knows how to balance her team out in well chemistry. Do you remember in vol. 22 of the tournament? Issei's team had poor reviews because of sloppy performances and letting teams weaker than theirs getting the best of them. However Rias and her team were praised for their excellent performance.

Furthermore, Rias is known for bringing out the best of her team and have good negotiation skills which is also an important factor. Rias started out with just the original ORC members but gathered 2 more Longines users and 2 living legends (Crom and Strada) and brought out her team's power to it's fullest.

As a king, Issei always jumps in head first when it's not necessary while Rias is more careful and patient.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Indra whole comment makes zero sense when you take into account volume 9 was Issei first time being a leader and he did alright orc was just to weak. He also comes up with plans to defeat people stronger then him multiple times through out the series. There really isn't any proof she is smarter then him without Ravel. She's also doesn't have that much more experience in rating either. She had two with Riser, one against Sona and the Sairaorg one were they only won because Regulus didn't decide to kill her. It's the new Issei is weak despite learning to punk high class devils in a month. This both Issei and Rias first professional tournament too. She's not dumb but her being smarter is doubtful.

Volume 9 just showed that Issei had potential to be a leader but that's it. He still was reckless at the time. Now Issei know how deal with people in a 1 v 1 fights but when it comes to overall complex battle plans that involves a team, Issei falls far short of Rias which is why he has Ravel. So yes, Rias is smarter than Issei. For example, in the rating game in volume 22, Baraqiel completely outsmarted Issei and led him by the nose. If it was Rias, she wouldn't have fallen for such a trap because she knows how to better anticipate her opponent. More proof is in the RG against Rias. Rias launched a surprise attack that completely caught Issei and Ravel off guard. That succeeded because Rias anticipated they would use scouts to which she countered with an ambush to swiftly eliminate them. It's stuff like these that Issei doesn't have a grasp on yet.

[Parry999]

^Rushing the front lines in a stamina hugging form and putting herself at risk when she's done without Balor form isn't smart it's the opposite. Baraquiel has 1000s of years of experience in combat you can't know if he wouldn't outsmart Rias. The way your wording that implys your saying Rias is smarter then Ravel which is not the case at all.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Rias is a better king for multiple reasons. Remember what Azazel told Rias in volume 5? Being a king is more about training your mind and right now that's what Issei lacks. Rias is leader and tactician of her team with the only weakness is power to which she covered up by using Gasper. Furthermore, Rias knows how to balance her team out in well chemistry. Do you remember in vol. 22 of the tournament? Issei's team had poor reviews because of sloppy performances and letting teams weaker than theirs getting the best of them. However Rias and her team were praised for their excellent performance.

Furthermore, Rias is known for bringing out the best of her team and have good negotiation skills which is also an important factor. Rias started out with just the original ORC members but gathered 2 more Longines users and 2 living legends (Crom and Strada) and brought out her team's power to it's fullest.

As a king, Issei always jumps in head first when it's not necessary while Rias is more careful and patient.

No, Issei brought out her peerage power by helping them over come there trauma and caused everyone around him to go under insane growth. Rias couldn't even get Crom to go all out against DxD L Vali. The poor reviews mean jack all when Vali got good reviews when he just let's his team mess around. Rias is patient based on what? Every rating game she's in ends in a head on battle putting herself at risk.

[KnightShade]

Its worth mentioning that vali team as a whole got good reviews because of their teamwork. If anything Vali can be just as much a ‘power idiot’ as issei despite the gap in experience between them.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by KnightShade

Its worth mentioning that vali team as a whole got good reviews because of their teamwork. If anything Vali can be just as much a ‘power idiot’ as issei despite the gap in experience between them.

Vali team as a whole are kind of all morons despite all the praise they get Then there's Arthur whose super normal.

[vietthai96]

So Arthur become a super normal guy now haha

[Parry999]

When where you under the impression Arthur wasn't just a British gentleman? Lol

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by KnightShade

Its worth mentioning that vali team as a whole got good reviews because of their teamwork. If anything Vali can be just as much a ‘power idiot’ as issei despite the gap in experience between them.

You have to be a power-type to be a power idiot. Considering that Vali has far less raw power than Issei or Crom Cruach, but easily far surpasses them in speed, skill, and technique makes him anything besides a power-type.

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by Parry999

^Rushing the front lines in a stamina hugging form and putting herself at risk when she's done without Balor form isn't smart it's the opposite. Baraquiel has 1000s of years of experience in combat you can't know if he wouldn't outsmart Rias. The way your wording that implys your saying Rias is smarter then Ravel which is not the case at all.


No, Issei brought out her peerage power by helping them over come there trauma and caused everyone around him to go under insane growth. Rias couldn't even get Crom to go all out against DxD L Vali. The poor reviews mean jack all when Vali got good reviews when he just let's his team mess around. Rias is patient based on what? Every rating game she's in ends in a head on battle putting herself at risk.

I was referring to bringing out her team's power to it's fullest. The purpose of the surprise attack was to take out the scouts as swiftly as possible. She didn't stay in Balor form for long. Also with time stop, it at least prevent the person from trying to escape just in case. Also she wasn't at risk when she had 3 other people (including Strada with her)

I didn't say Rias is smarter than Ravel but she does have better foresight as in she fan better predict and anticipate what her opponent will do. This is why Ravel was caught off guard by Rias surprise attack because Rias anticipated Ravel would send scouts.

How was Crom not going all out against Vali? There's no difference in power between his human and dragon form.

Vali's team got good reviews because they had better teamwork and coordination. Furthermore, Vali has more experience than Issei when it comes to leading his team. Issei team had bad reviews because they had no coordination and had sloppy results.

Rias is more patient. Unlike Issei, Rias doesn't be the first one to go out. Also the opponents she usually fights are the enemy kings.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

You have to be a power-type to be a power idiot. Considering that Vali has far less raw power than Issei or Crom Cruach, but easily far surpasses them in speed, skill, and technique makes him anything besides a power-type.

where was it said Vali wasn't a power type? Ise has far more techniques then vali as well. Vali has divide, half dimension variations, reflect and Longinus smasher that's about it. Compared to transfer, boost, penetrate, the armor giving, Ddraig and Issei's flames, Ascalon 1 and 2 all dragon shots variations with his canons and longinus smasher. Vali doesn't have many techniques.

[Lucidrago]

Here's the thing:

While Ravel is a good tactician and strategist, it seems they do poorly against much stronger teams. Against Typhon's team Issei was effectively cornered and it would have been checkmark for him even if he had beaten Vidar. If it wasn't for Ddraig manifesting and defeating Typhon, that would have been game over for Issei unless Ravel and Rossweisse made a mad rush to the top after defeating Brynhildr and the Valkyries.

Same with this match, it Issei didn't think of using the Breast Cannon on Rias, he wouldn't have won(Well I'm just guessing).

In both of those matches, Ravel had nothing to do with what made their team win the match. I think that's what Indra meant. Issei's way too reliant on Ravel and he wouldn't even be able to stand a chance against these stronger teams without thinking on his own.

[Parry999]

Issei didn't use anything besides breast techniques and basic dragon shots on Rias according to the spoilers. Issei having bad team work is meme worthy when he gives a majority of his team armor and pairs them up. You know who had shitty team work and tactics? Jest of kings and they got great reviews anyway.

[Emperor of D.]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Here's the thing:

While Ravel is a good tactician and strategist, it seems they do poorly against much stronger teams. Against Typhon's team Issei was effectively cornered and it would have been checkmark for him even if he had beaten Vidar. If it wasn't for Ddraig manifesting and defeating Typhon, that would have been game over for Issei unless Ravel and Rossweisse made a mad rush to the top after defeating Brynhildr and the Valkyries.

Same with this match, it Issei didn't think of using the Breast Cannon on Rias, he wouldn't have won(Well I'm just guessing).

In both of those matches, Ravel had nothing to do with what made their team win the match. I think that's what Indra meant. Issei's way too reliant on Ravel and he wouldn't even be able to stand a chance against these stronger teams without thinking on his own.

What makes you think Issei would have lost if he didn't use breast canon on Rias? Rias wasn't getting anywhere against Issei. Sure she had countermeasures but none of them actually helped her to gain an advantage. From the looks of it they were just made to give herself a fighting chance against Issei. She wasn't winning against him.

Ravel's plan did help them win the match against Rias team. Separating Rias from Crom and Strada so Issei doesn't have to deal with them was a very effective way to go about it. Sure, he had to fight Kiba first but it's better to fight him then having to fight Crom or Strada before facing Rias. Issei can rely on Ravel but not rely too much on her. He should just use her battle strategies and that's it. When it comes to fighting people with troublesome abilities, Issei has already experienced this many times already. Cao Cao, Riser and Apophis are prime examples.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Here's the thing:

While Ravel is a good tactician and strategist, it seems they do poorly against much stronger teams. Against Typhon's team Issei was effectively cornered and it would have been checkmark for him even if he had beaten Vidar. If it wasn't for Ddraig manifesting and defeating Typhon, that would have been game over for Issei unless Ravel and Rossweisse made a mad rush to the top after defeating Brynhildr and the Valkyries.

Same with this match, it Issei didn't think of using the Breast Cannon on Rias, he wouldn't have won(Well I'm just guessing).

In both of those matches, Ravel had nothing to do with what made their team win the match. I think that's what Indra meant. Issei's way too reliant on Ravel and he wouldn't even be able to stand a chance against these stronger teams without thinking on his own.

I mean tactics and strategies really aren't going to do well against a team full of gods. I think Ravel strategy worked perfectly against Rias, from the spoilers I never thought once Issei was in danger of losing that match. I even wrote about how Ravel completely beat Rias in this match. Also the only thing that matters is what did happen, in battles and wars you have to be prepared for the unexpected to occur that's part of it.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

I mean tactics and strategies really aren't going to do well against a team full of gods. I think Ravel strategy worked perfectly against Rias, from the spoilers I never thought once Issei was in danger of losing that match. I even wrote about how Ravel completely beat Rias in this match. Also the only thing that matters is what did happen, in battles and wars you have to be prepared for the unexpected to occur that's part of it.

But Ravel's strategy wasn't the decisive factor in Issei winning.

Rias' and Ravel's tactics and strategies are similarly naive in my view. Ravel is able to come up with ways to even the playing field when her team is at a disadvantage but That's really all she does and then she just leaves it to Issei to finish the job. Her tactics are pretty praiseworthy but if Issei is cornered at the end with no way out like he was in Volume 25, he is largely screwed.

The playing field was evened out in their match against Barakiel but Issei ended up being trapped and then Rossweisse, their magician who would be the most useful in that kind of Rating Game, had Armaros who specializes in anti-magic waiting for her when Issei used [Castling] to switch places. And even after Issei used Infinity Blaster on the field, all Barakiel's team had to do was find one more object to win which was the same as Issei's team.

In Volume 23, Issei ended up being trapped and taken out of the game again. It seemed that Ravel's tactics were not as effective for that kind of game where you could only win by having more points than the other team. But they did really well regardless.

In Volume 25, the match-ups against the gods were genius and was very smart on Ravel's part. But it was again to even the playing field and to buy as much time as possible and the only way they were going to win was if one of them made it to the top or someone defeated Typhon which only Issei was capable of. And Issei was cornered as Apollo and Typhon had dealt with their challenges and if Ddraig hadn't manifested then how would that match have turned out?

And in this recent Rating Game match, Issei would have been the only one capable of defeating Rias in her Balor Form. And as a power-type, Issei would kind of be at a disadvantage against Rias in her Balor Form and Dress Break wasn't working(wonder why he didn't use Palingual?). He would have to think of a smart way to defeat her as Ravel could only take him so far.

Ravel is a genius but her tactics are very limited to just giving their team an even playing field against smarter and stronger opponents.