(L) Dragon Ball Super

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Sixth: You do realize that Beerus wasn't even using 10% of his power when he fought SSG Goku? But yeah, as Kanon said, he's talking about the impact that the initial transformation itself had. And that and SSB's one lacked significant impact. True Ultra Instinct's one has more impact.

in the movie beerus claimed using 70% of his power, but in anime if i'm not wrong he told which he was using around 30% not 10%, if i'm not wrong, againts goku SSG in they original battle.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Sixth: You do realize that Beerus wasn't even using 10% of his power when he fought SSG Goku? But yeah, as Kanon said, he's talking about the impact that the initial transformation itself had. And that and SSB's one lacked significant impact. True Ultra Instinct's one has more impact.

As I said. Does it even matter? Even if Beerus is using 0.01 of his power doesn't change the fact the first SSG has the POWER to destroy the universe IN THE PAST. Now? Even a Dyspo can survive from SSG attack.

Yeah, Kanon was talking about the presentation of the new form/transformation but I AM TALKING about the SSG feat (which quickly become underwhelming in the future arcs) in its first debut ever since I brought up this discussion.

[static-flare]

Well, to be fair, usually and almost always when goku has a new transformation, the battles usually shook the earth causing tremors, thunder, rocks floating up and everyone commenting as if a geostorm is coming

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Sixth

As I said. Does it even matter? Even if Beerus is using 0.01 of his power doesn't change the fact the first SSG has the POWER to destroy the universe IN THE PAST. Now? Even a Dyspo can survive from SSG attack.

Yeah, Kanon was talking about the presentation of the new form/transformation but I AM TALKING about the SSG feat (which quickly become underwhelming in the future arcs) in its first debut ever since I brought up this discussion.

Stop trying to make sense! A regular fused Super Saiyan managed to defeat Blue Goku, forcing him to go Ultra Instinct for an entire episode to defeat her.

Also, Super Saiyan Red really felt underwhelming when I saw fanmerchandising in my country completely removing images of that form with some kind of Golden Super Saiyan 4.

[BWTraveller]

Actually, I've developed a theory that the universe/multiverse itself possesses the Saiyan trait of recovery doping. There have been a few cases in the past where individuals had to hold their power back because if they didn't it would rip the universe apart. Buu started to break it and I believe it might have been stated that Gohan after awakening his hidden potential had to hold back to avoid doing the same. I'm pretty sure there were other cases similar to that. Then we reached a point where the fighters were far above what they had when they fought Buu but they could fight without worry. Then Goku achieved a new power entire dimensions above that, which again threatened to rip the universe if he fought too long. Then not long after that he fought Frieza in a state that was as far above Red as Super Saiyan is above Saiyan, and there was no talk of universal destruction. Over and over again, we have fighters become so powerful that they damage the universe itself and threaten to destroy it, then after a little recovery time they achieve levels far beyond that point and are able to fight without concern, only to obtain a new level that damages reality and then later manage to handle it without such concern. Every time someone powers up enough to seriously injure reality itself, reality heals up stronger than before and easily able to withstand that level.

But I'd have to agree that, while SSB was awesome, this was much better. I've enjoyed for a while the work that must've gone into the choreography of Goku's style in UI, where he really often doesn't seem to be fighting the way he normally does, but rather his body almost seems to be set to move in a certain way, like it's being moved by the very flow of the fight. And yeah, this final completion of the transformation was indeed epic, more visually stunning than SSB and more satisfying than Future Trunks' spirit ascension (still one of my favorite moments, with it looking like he'd actually achieved a state where his power was both human and god at the same time).

I noticed they pulled a similar move to something they did in the new Star Wars, having his big moment after all that buildup be completely silent for a few seconds. There were plenty of spots where the animation was a little lacking, but despite this the entire thing was indeed a completely new level of awesome that I doubt they'd be able to top.

[DragonOsman]

@Blueknight: I heard that Toriyama said in an interview that Beerus was using only around 10% or so power when he fought SSG Goku. I know what Beerus said in the anime, but either he was lying or Toriyama changed his mind.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

The anime can excuse them as much as it wants, won't make them any less bullshit than they are (Cabba is the only good saiyan in U6 and that is because he is at least getting his powers in a more believable pace).

Only because A. he was introduced first and had "more" screen time and B. because they basically rushed EVERYTHING.

Like Plague said don't hate them because of the fast progress hate the writers and the narrative writing that rushed their progress for the tournament.

Unless you hate them because of their look or personality those are fine reasons..............but yes the rush of caulifla and kale sucked... Coulda done with a little u6 arc with them all training or more background... NOPE GOKU STORY! Gotta crank out those forms to make figurines and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
That being said I'd rather have the barely anything we got with them than Jiren Uchiha backstory.


You aren't subscribed to SethTheProgrammer on youtube are you? lol

[vietthai96]

The character is the victim, not the criminal, you can see it in Re:Creator

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by vietthai96

The character is the victim, not the criminal, you can see it in Re:Creator

Just OOOOOOOONE episode instead of freakin Jelly Vegeta or 3 Gohan vs Movie Stunt Man episodes......sigh

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Only because A. he was introduced first and had "more" screen time and B. because they basically rushed EVERYTHING.

Like Plague said don't hate them because of the fast progress hate the writers and the narrative writing that rushed their progress for the tournament.

Unless you hate them because of their look or personality those are fine reasons.


You aren't subscribed to SethTheProgrammer on youtube are you? lol

First of all, I will not take advice from Plague of all people when it comes to female saiyans, especially when it can be seen as biased due to his obvious obsession with them even before these two existed.

Second, I don't know who this SethTheProgrammer is, all of my opinions have been formed by myself and I don't need to seek validation from some youtuber to make one.

A character is the representation of the writing, to hate the writing of a character is to hate the character themselves. Without the writing they are no more than a design concept, an artwork. I don't care how well designed a character is (not that those two have a great, much less good design), if I think they suck then in my opinion they suck in their entirety. A good design =/= a good character, which in turn =/= that I should blindly like them due to the artwork. This is yet another reason Plagues views can seem biased, he is a character designer, not a character writer.

Cabba is a genuinely interesting character not because he has had "more screentime" but because he is a character that was created by someone who clearly put more than a minutes thought into his creation instead of regurgitating a clone of a character that already exists and slapping tits and a pussy on them and it shows.

For example, Cabba might be Vegetas' U6 counter-part but they are complete opposites, he is his own character with his own personality which makes their interactions that much more interesting (by the way, before someone calls me out on it, I am not a Vegeta fanboy, but I do recognize how amazing his characterization has been all throughout the entire series). Meanwhile Caulifla is just another Goku but with a vagina and Kale is just genderbent Broly and both of their personalities are just copy/paste of better very popular characters to the point that they come off as if someone shoehorned a couple of fanfic characters into the series... Or just added their OCs from Xenoverse.

While I personally do agree with Vegetas' little speech since surpassing their limits is what saiyans are best at, it doesn't change the fact that the U6 female saiyans go against everything established by the series, diminishing all the struggles the U7 saiyans (not counting Goten and Trunks, they barely do anything as is) had to go through to earn (<- keyword) their powers and no midichlo... S-Cells bullshit is going to excuse such blatant pandering. Heck, the fact that S-Cells are even a thing diminish Vegetas' words in the latest episode, which is yet another sign of how badly the U6 female saiyans existence is affecting the canon.

Oh look, yet another reason for me to hate them.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Blueknight: I heard that Toriyama said in an interview that Beerus was using only around 10% or so power when he fought SSG Goku. I know what Beerus said in the anime, but either he was lying or Toriyama changed his mind.

ok, i did not know that, but honestly that amount of "retcons" are start to looking weird, it's almost like we can't take anything in the manga or anime as "canon" because he can come and change everything as he talks and as he is doing, is almost like he "rewriting the whole serie" which the constantly changes, it's make hard to stick with anything in the source if he keep changing things over and over off '"screen" in interviews.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

But I'd have to agree that, while SSB was awesome, this was much better. I've enjoyed for a while the work that must've gone into the choreography of Goku's style in UI, where he really often doesn't seem to be fighting the way he normally does, but rather his body almost seems to be set to move in a certain way, like it's being moved by the very flow of the fight. And yeah, this final completion of the transformation was indeed epic, more visually stunning than SSB and more satisfying than Future Trunks' spirit ascension (still one of my favorite moments, with it looking like he'd actually achieved a state where his power was both human and god at the same time).

I noticed they pulled a similar move to something they did in the new Star Wars, having his big moment after all that buildup be completely silent for a few seconds. There were plenty of spots where the animation was a little lacking, but despite this the entire thing was indeed a completely new level of awesome that I doubt they'd be able to top.

This technique/transformation has so many unique aspects and moments going for it that either added to the hype or just plain looked cool. For instance, making UI be the first transformation to have a pre-awakened state (in hindsight) was a nice way to keep the hype train going throughout the middle of the arc.

I also liked how while in the unawakened UI state, Goku never took a direct hit. Even in all those extremely fast fist exchanges the animators and choreographers were careful not to depict Goku letting a single punch or kick from an opponent connect. And when his kamehameha was countered, he still managed to use it to block the counter. All this despite the fact that there were instances where both Kefla and Jiren would insinuated to still have a strength advantage over Goku. This is a good sign as it may indicate that they're (at least for the time being) treating UI as more than just a mere power up. They're taking what UI is supposed to do seriously and not letting opponents overcome it just because they're super strong or faster than Goku.

By doing this, it only elevated the expectations of what was soon to come. Because if Ultra Instinct - Omen proved to be the ultimate equalizer, one would expect the completed Ultra Instinct to be the ultimate advantage. And that's exactly what it began to look like as the transformation took place. And for the 1st time, we actually get to see a transformation occur as the action was happening--which I thought was a creative way to go about it.

If it sounds like I'm completely fanboying over this, it's because I am. I'm right there with you when you say that this is more awesome than SSB. And if in the unfortunate event the Dragonball franchise never gets another series, I'd at least take solace in the fact that it would mean Ultra Instinct will never get a chance to be degraded into mediocrity (assuming the next 2 episodes don't do it first ).

[Hakai]

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/9...601154560?s=20

[DragoMuseveni]

Spoiler for spoiler for 130&131:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x38uoj06r9M&t
Is this legit . Because if it is then DBS basically reduced the awesomeness of Mastered Ultra Instinct . Also Freeza remains the last guy standing ....... this has to be fake

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by DragoMuseveni

Spoiler for spoiler for 130&131:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x38uoj06r9M&t
Is this legit . Because if it is then DBS basically reduced the awesomeness of Mastered Ultra Instinct . Also Freeza remains the last guy standing ....... this has to be fake

Those are most probably real since they are from Herms.

Predictable stuff if you ask me.

Spoiler:

I mean it's pretty obvious they kept Frieza in the stage for a reason, it was either going to be a tie or Goku's loss

[DragoMuseveni]

Originally Posted by Hakai

Those are most probably real since they are from Herms.

Predictable stuff if you ask me.

Spoiler:

I mean it's pretty obvious they kept Frieza in the stage for a reason, it was either going to be a tie or Goku's loss

Spoiler for spoiler:

I don`t mind a tie but Goku with Mastered UI to be defeated when this form is supposed to be almost invincible it`s very disappointing . It was predictable if the time went up and U7 won by participant number superiority but not by Goku dropping from arena and freeza being the last one to be standing . Especially when the last guy standing can make one wish with the super dragon balls

[Seafoam]

Spoiler:

The arc has been awful from the start but I really like this ending. I'd roll my eyes if it just ended with Goku beating Jiren because he got a stronger form. That's simply far too basic. Dragon Ball has often been the butt of a long running shounen joke that whoever punches harder wins,
and I at least give props to Toriyama (likely) for having the arc end with something else.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by DragoMuseveni

Spoiler for spoiler:

I don`t mind a tie but Goku with Mastered UI to be defeated when this form is supposed to be almost invincible it`s very disappointing . It was predictable if the time went up and U7 won by participant number superiority but not by Goku dropping from arena and freeza being the last one to be standing . Especially when the last guy standing can make one wish with the super dragon balls

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan God, was complete fodder to Beerus.

Blue, Got dominated by Golden Frieza.

SSBKK, I'd say he was inferior to unrestricted Hit since his body couldn't handle Blue Kaioken properly back then.

We should've seen this coming

[DragonOsman]

Seriously, Toei and Toriyama? True Ultra Instinct isn't really invincible even though it seemed to be? Okay, I want to go and punch their faces in now. Can I?

That said, though, Frieza can't make a wish. He doesn't know the Language of the Gods.

[Chosen_Hero]

It was never said that UI was invincible. All I remember is Whiz and Beerus saying that it was the ultimate technique that even the Gods of Destruction have a hard time mastering, nothing more, nothing less.