2007-02-27, 17:47 | Link #41 | |
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I find that i disagree with almost everything you posted, namely the last tidbits. I do belive they had a problem with the villians of ZZ. Afterall they were trying to keep it light hearted. Rhaken Was the worst of them of course, but he wasn't used all that much, namely becuase of how evil he was. I mean he came off the worst, and Then the brought back Mashima as a serious contender, but even then he didn't fight until the last battle. Glemmy was pushed as the main villian becuase Judau was more willing to work with Haman, although she was much more sinister than Glemmy. Glemmy was a lot nicer than Haman on top of that. The civil war was one of the things i enjoyed the most about ZZ, it was nice showing all the main players fighting it out against each other, i enjoyed it more than Titans vs Aeug vs Zeon, which was presented in Zeta. Not to mention i thought it worked better with the Zeon fighting each other considering how lousy the Federation had become during that time. Now to discuss bright for a moment. I actually liked how he had lightened up, and was so hard ass serious all the time. Judau and gang were like his kids, who he didn't get to see much of, which to me would explain his attitude, not to mention judau was the best they had considering Camillie, and amuro. Not to mention Judau would run off if he got bright slapped, or he might have fought back, and bright may have been judau slapped. Haman on the other hand seemed to be perfect for her role. I don't think she changed that much sense Zeta. If anything she was careless at the most part, but i would be too, if everything was going my way. But if anything it just brought her biggest flaw to light. She was just too Selfish. I mean she expected everyone to bow to her on a whim, and she didn't look at them as people. Everyone who served her was viewed as a pawn, and she didn't care about them at all. She wanted char as her servant, she expected Scirroco to bow down to her, she wanted camille and Judau to given to her. It is this fact that i adore Haman's character through Zeta and ZZ.
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2007-03-15, 09:25 | Link #44 |
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Well, you can't forget that...
A.) The Methuss was already not that great to begin with and inferior to most other transformable MS, so obviously it'd be very outclassed by the time of ZZ. Also, Axis pilots are really much more experienced in MS combat as it is (given much of it is Zeon remnants from the OYW) while Fa is just an amateur overall. B.) The Methuss was already pretty damaged when it made its few appearances in ZZ. Mainly because the Argama was all alone and probably wasn't able to keep resupplying when it needed, so much needed repairs couldn't be made to it. C.) New main characters so not much need to keep Fa around since Kamille was incapacitated.
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2007-03-16, 04:11 | Link #45 |
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I completely understand the circumstances that the Argama crew faced at the beginning of ZZ, but even with the Methuss, she was able to hold her own. It seemed like all sense of piloting skill that she gained in Zeta completely disappeared. At least walk the Zeta properly, seriously.
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2007-03-16, 11:24 | Link #46 |
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Well, it's not that simple either since the Zeta was specifically tuned to Kamille. It's not like just anyone would be able to make it move so easily without lots of reconfigurations.
Like in 0083, the mechanic warns Kou as he was about to board Burning's GM Custom that since it was tuned for Burning, the pedals might feel stiff to him.
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2007-03-17, 16:33 | Link #47 | |
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Fa did well becuase she had some fighting experience, where as they had little to no actual battle experience.
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2007-03-20, 01:09 | Link #48 |
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I've been watching ZZ recently myself. I started last summer and decided to give it another chance... I'm about a 2/5 thru the series now. My sympathies normally lie with high emo, high angst characters, but I'm gradually coming to like the show. I think there are two really great points about ZZ, and both of them come from having Tomino as the director:
1. Unlike certain more recent series, pretty much every episode in ZZ has a lot going on plotwise. It may be goofy but there is rarely a slow moment... Like, look at episode 19, where Judau meets Puru on Axis. People infiltrate Axis, Beecha and Mondo try to rescue Leina and steal a mech, Judau and Puru have a weird chase, people zip in and out of different MSes, people constantly make mistakes about what's going on. Most of all, NO RELIANCE ON CLIPSHOWS for structure... I'm noticing more and more with Tomino's stuff how he makes sure the action is really constant. It's so densely plotted it almost reminds me of the old X-Men show, where an unbelievable amount of shit happened every episode. I mean, look at the eyecatches on this show. On most series there's like a five-second extended shot or a music climax or a cliffhanger or something so you pretty much know the eyecatch/commercial break is going to come. On ZZ, though, the pace is so quick the eyecatch is usually a surprise to me. It's like they just had so much plot to get through that they'd let the central point of the episode just fall where it had to. Has anyone else noticed this? Another effective thingabout this is when there IS an emo scene, [usually at the very end of an episode - like say episode 10?], the change from the mostly fast pace gives it a kind of significance that it rarely had in GSD, where just about every episode we had Athrun looking at the waves in the ocean for fifteen seconds or more. 2. Second big point: the silly tone of ZZ actually makes some of Tomino's favorite plot devices easier to deal with. Particularly the "getting to know the enemy" stuff that every Gundam series relies on for drama. Like in Zeta, when Camille and Four were hanging around together in Hong Kong, I could never believe their relationship. "What kind of personal connection are you possibly having?" But in ZZ, Glemy's crush on Lu Luka actually works... I'm not looking at these plot devices as critically as I do when the show's tone is serious. Likewise, compare Rosamia wanting Camille to be her "big brother" and Puru wanting Judau to be her "big brother". I think the latter is easier to accept because ZZ's tone is so light... |
2007-03-21, 21:18 | Link #49 |
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I agree with that. Infact judau seemed to be the only character to care about most of his enemies. He cared about puru, chara, even Haman, i was suprised that he even cared when Mashima died. That show seemed to make character interaction interesting and believable.
Perhaps only done well in victory. That is the realtionship between the good guys and the bad.
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2007-03-21, 22:13 | Link #50 | |
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It also shows how much of an impact such relationships can have later on too. It's sort of similar to the old World War I movie my grandpa has, The Dawn Patrol, where a German pilot gets shot down and captured, but most of the French pilots (except 1. There has to always be 1 who hates the enemy with a passion), instead of merely throwing him into a prison, they actually invited him to the bar and had drinks with him and such. It sort of established a whole "honor" thing among them. Shows they're all the same in many ways, despite being from opposite sides.
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2008-05-12, 16:11 | Link #51 |
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I realize this discussion is fairly old, but there's something that's always bothered me during ZZ, which was the way Puru's death seemed to have no effect.
I watched it again recently, and with a different sub group at that, to make sure about this and it's still the same. Spoiler for Puru and Judau?:
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2008-05-12, 16:25 | Link #52 |
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Actually, Puru's death did anger Judau to the point that the ZZ suddenly became recharged and then some. (Most likely as a result of the bio-sensor, similar how it worked with Kamille and the Zeta.) This allowed him to pretty much total what was left of the Psyco Gundam Mark II after it got trashed by the Qubeley's "newtype" self-destruction on it. As for Puru Two, well, I guess it's because no one really knew her, despite her being a clone of Puru.
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2008-05-13, 06:09 | Link #54 | |
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Judau got angry enough after her death, and then the funeral afterwards cemented the mourning. But as Judau isn't exactly the type to dwell on deaths (his angsting of Leina's "death" only lasted the final two minutes of that ep after all), there wasn't any "Matilda-saaaaaaaaaan!!!"-type screams in the aftermath.
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2009-08-25, 18:45 | Link #56 | |
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I do have an issue with Judau wasting Haman with ease when Kamille and Char couldn't even beat her. I don't consider Judau an excellent pilot because it's stated outright in Zeta that Axis Zeon's soldiers are untrained rookies, so it's not like Amuro fighting against seasoned Zeon veterans like Ramba Ral and Char or Kamille fighting against Cyber Newtypes and Titans aces. The Dublin colony drop battle is far and away the best part of ZZ, and almost worth watching the series just to see.
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2009-08-25, 19:34 | Link #57 | |
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The wasted potential is not what bothers me most about ZZ (though it does bother me). What annoys me most about that show is the childish tone it takes for many of its episodes; it's annoying in of itself, but it's doubly worse because it trivializes and even disrespects what came beforehand in Zeta. It's not totally awful though. The colony drop was cool and I think Glemmy's death scene is one of the most badass Gundam scenes I've ever seen. Personally, I hope Tomino (or someone) one day decides to make a compilation movie duology/trilogy out of it. I think if there's any Gundam series that could benefit from that kind of treatment, it's ZZ. |
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2009-08-26, 00:13 | Link #58 |
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I was linked to it by someone in the #mahq IRC room a few years ago when I finished watching Double Zeta. I honestly don't remember the name of the site and probably couldn't find it on a Google search, but I'm sure if you ask around to people in that channel or maybe even MAHQ's forum, someone probably knows. Maybe try Chris himself? Also floating out there is the original intended plot for MSG, broken down episode by episode from 37-52 how the show was originally supposed to play out, but if you ask me I like the way the story was changed due to the cancellation.
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2009-08-26, 02:19 | Link #59 | ||||
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2009-08-26, 05:18 | Link #60 | |
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