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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 20 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 19 | 24.36% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 22 | 28.21% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 28 | 35.90% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 7.69% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 2.56% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 1.28% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-05-19, 22:16 | Link #43 | |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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I could see Archer going along with it if it means keeping himself entertained. He has interest in Saber so having her be manipulated like that would likely be interesting enough for him to go along with it. Doesn't make much sense for it to be Rider. Just seems not to be his style and if he said he was going to wait until night then he probably would do that. In the end we'll have to wait and see.
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2012-05-19, 22:21 | Link #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Age: 44
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Back to the present with more dialogue, but this time the stakes are very high. Looks like Team Kiritsugu didn't know Kirei killed off Tokiomi, then Maiya killed and Iri kidnapped by Rider, and Kariya being forced to eat the worm that feed off Sakura's virginity to gain more mana (and possibly control Berserker). Waver doesn't know Kayneth is killed and Kariya doesn't know Tokiomi is killed (by Maiya and Kirei respectively). Things are finally turning around for the Holy Grail War.
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2012-05-19, 23:12 | Link #52 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I'm always wary of participating in the discussion of episodes that leave as many questions and mysteries as this one, but I guess I'll give the novel readers the benefit of doubt here.
The placement for Kiritsugu's flashback does make more sense now. Maiya raised quite a few death flags throughout this episode, so it wasn't entirely surprising to see her go (and it really seems like we won't go a single episode without somebody dying in Season 2), but the scene was still effective in displaying how Kiritsugu's stoic endurance is just barely hanging on by a thread at this point. But before we get into that... The Iri and Maiya talk may have gone on for a little too long, but it was a fitting final scene for the two together in the end. They were polar opposites and each represented the two sides of Kiritsugu (even the color schemes of their designs highlighted this), so at first they were only able to see that one side of him (the Magus Killer for Maiya and the childish man who dreams of saving the world for Irisviel), but through their mutual understanding they were able to get a clearer picture of him, which Maiya showed in her final words to him. Like Iri had done when she met him, Maiya realizes how weak and vulnerable Kiritsugu actually is underneath it all, which is why he suppresses he emotions so vehemently. And now that he's lost her and will probably soon lose Iri, it really does seem like a foregone conclusion that he will break down throughout the course of the war. The best he can hope for is that happens later rather than sooner, so that he might still have the strength necessary to win the war and claim his prize. Yet the quite apparent massive scheme on the part of his foes has now made his situation more grim than ever... Quote:
I suppose one way they could have done it would be to cut off Waver's arm, attain control of his Command Spells and force Rider to do the things he did, but it's hard to believe they would be able to accomplish that so quickly and easily. But who knows. I won't bother speculating any further (partially because I don't want to prompt any overeager novel reader into carelessly spoiling the answer) and will simply enjoy the mystery while it lasts. And by enjoy I mean suffer in agony for the next week. I do gotta wonder just how large in scale this likely scheme is, since the preview made it seem like even Kariya and Aoi will be involved. And speaking of the former, I loved the scene with Berserker. It was great to finally see him non-CG and actually forming coherent speech. I doubt we'll get that much more characterization for him, but I really enjoyed what we got here. He's exactly the type of man I'd imagined him to be, bitter and resentful, and what he said about himself only further confirmed how fitting for one another the Master and Servant are once again. Much like Berserker, Kariya has been "cursing those who shine brilliantly" (the Magi, particularly Tokiomi, of course) for quite a while now, so it's rather ironic that Berserker would feed on one that is going through the exact same suffering as him. I expect (and hope) that eventually, though, the mad dog will see the similarities in their plight and will feel true loyalty for his poor Master. Quote:
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Yeah, that's what I surmised too. You can probably look at it like a "power up" for Kariya, so to speak, in order for him to be able to fight still. But of course Zouken couldn't resist the urge to offer it in the cruelest possible manner. Old bastard really hasn't taken it well that Kariya abandoned the family's bloodline magic. |
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2012-05-19, 23:16 | Link #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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I think he's just a sadistic, evil bastard. Kariya's just easy prey. |
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2012-05-19, 23:23 | Link #54 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Eh, I disagree. Well he definitely is when it comes to Kariya, but he doesn't strike me as being indiscriminately so. It just doesn't seem like a coincidence to me that he's been shown to enjoy the suffering of a "traitor" and a "failure" like Kariya, yet we haven't seen any similarly clear indications for Sakura. Unlike Kariya, she behaves nicely and actually provides excellent results, which is probably why he doesn't seem nearly as interested in having her suffer anymore than necessary. Granted, in this case, the necessary is already plenty to begin with, but still.
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2012-05-19, 23:28 | Link #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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2012-05-20, 01:07 | Link #56 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I think after seeing this episode, unless you just hate the character, I don't think you can really deny the importance of the last two episodes for properly building Kiritsugu's character and giving his actions emotional weight. The fact that they were placed before the ending line of episodes which will be the climax of the whole series also seems wholly appropriate in retrospect because now they can successfully scrap at it for all its worth. I think Ufotable was right in their placement.
Kariya's scene was sad as usual. Zouken is obviously the world's greatest father. Making him feast on the worm that raped Sakura . I did like Berserker's scene here, drawing a nice parallel between the servant/master relation. Maybe we'll get another scene with Berserker, I'd find that nice. Overall this episode seemed to be mostly the calm before the storm. Before Maiya's death, it was just mostly a check up on the rest of the masters and their current situation before the final conflicts start to unfold. Like everybody else, I am not quite sure if that really was Rider there at the end. In any case, these last stretch of episodes are going to be what I was waiting for all along in Fate/Zero. In particular the Kiritsugu vs Kotomine dynamic that is presumably going to surface towards the end. The conflict will be hitting its pinnacle in intensity.
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2012-05-20, 01:41 | Link #57 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I also think it's no coincident that the only team we didn't get to check up on in this episode was the team of Kirei and Gilgamesh. When a scheme is at hand, we usually don't get to see much of the ones behind it, which is why I imagine they're behind the shenanigans in this episode and why I expect they'll be a main villainous force to be reckoned with in this final phase of the war. And with Rider low on mana, Kariya more beaten down and battered than ever and Kiritsugu's protective emotional shell cracking, who knows who will be able to stand up to them. So yeah, it should be a very intense ride, and I hope they've planned it well enough that the 5 episodes we have left will suffice to show everything in all of its glory. |
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2012-05-20, 02:53 | Link #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Knowing how dangerous this final phase of the war will probably turn out to be, he did indeed return to the cold machine-like Kiritsugu of old, which is why he was so emotionally unresponsive at the beginning of the episode, even when faced with Iri's heartfelt words of farewell. But in the end, when those closest to him were threatened and harmed, his feelings crept up once again and made him waver, hence the tears he couldn't hold back when faced with Maiya's death. In the end, no matter how hard Kiritsugu tries, no return to his "cold bad ass" self will be an assuredly permanent one and he will always be prone to letting his repressed humanity get the better of him. That's been his main source of inner turmoil since the start of the war. He knows that those feelings will only make him weaker and less effective on the battlefield, yet he can't bring himself to completely discard them. It's why Maiya kissed him in episode 3, in order to get his mind out of Illya during a time of war, why he resorted to arson before blowing up Kayneth's building in episode 6, why he considered abandoning the war and living simply for the sake of his family in episode 7, etc etc etc. And now, even though he'd just resolved himself into fully embracing the Magus Killer side of him, Maiya's death quickly dispelled that self-imposed facade. No matter how hard he tries, Kiritsugu just can't run away from dealing with his emotions. The question is how much that is going to cost him in the upcoming final stage of the conflict. |
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